Running Game Question

[kaffeen]

It's called the fun 'n gun..... not the fun 'n run . Spurrier just likes to "pitch it around" and I think the emphasis is on that one goal in all aspects of his offense.

To go along with his offensive philosophy of pass first and pass often, I do think Spurrier would prefer a quick/smaller back with good hands over a big workhorse who grinds it out. A few people have implied that some Gator runners have been grinders and that Florida has used them accordingly, but they lack to mention that even the strongest ones almost all had excellent hands and the best of the best were very fast and could get to the outside(i.e. Taylor). It will be interesting to see how Stephen Davis does does and how Spurrier uses him. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think he has great speed or great hands. I think he's just a big workhorse (granted a very good one).

I think Spurrier opts for a slasher/finesse back next year. Davis is a payroll casualty next year and is seemingly not a perfect fit for this system. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion, but at this point I'd be willing to be he's not here next year.

[redman]

This apparent inflexibility on Spurrier's part is what I'm concerned about. Every great coach has adapted his scheme in some way to reflect the skills of his players. Shula went from being a traditional running coach to a pass-first offense when he got Marino. Gibbs likewise was constantly tinkering with his scheme to adapt to changing circumstances on his roster.

Our offensive backbone this season, the part that we should be able to count on come thick or thin, is Stephen Davis. Ironically, it's arguably perhaps our greatest question mark because while I believe that we'll have at least some success passing the ball, I have little confidence that our scheme will allow us to run when we need to. When you have a Pro Bowl caliber RB like Stephen Davis on your roster, that just seems *** backwards!

[Sailor]

This apparent inflexibility on Spurrier's part is what I'm concerned about. Every great coach has adapted his scheme in some way to reflect the skills of his players

How about if we wait and see what plays out? This inflexibility may be all in our minds.

They said that Spurrier only wanted small speedy recievers in his offense. He seems to have found a way to use Thompson.

He will use Davis too, just in a different way than we are used to and in a way that fits within the overall offense.

Remember the play action pass? That was a staple in Norv's offense. And it worked. It worked because Davis pounded into the line until the D keyed on the run. Then a fake handoff froze them on the line. Don't think we'll see many of those this year.

A play action pass is a fake run. The flip side is a draw play which is a fake pass. With one you use the run to set up the pass, with the other you use the pass to set up the run.

It's called taking what the defense gives you. A coach who won't do that is REALLY inflexible.

[Blondie]

We are back to the offensive line dilemna....once more. (And ASF has been sanctioned.) That line has to mesh. What hapens there, and who moves where, will determine how SD is used.I don't think it has been inflexibility, as of yet. Three preseason games does not make that kind of statement. SD still powers the offense. He can't afford to ignore over 4,000 yards and 33 TDs in 3 seasons.

Ok....he has 8 backs right now....probably for 5 spots. SD, Johnson, Betts, Cartwright, and in my thought....Gillespie. He will go for power in my opinion.

Blondie

[PediGator]

When it comes down to it redman - what you asked was "why" and the answer is that he hasn't had to. He's stubborn and thin skinned - and he's good at what he does. His offenses put up more points more consistently than any other in the country. So why change?

He's a passing game coach. He admits he doesn't know how to teach the off-tackle play any better than anyone else. So he decided a long time ago to run things a bit differently than most. You don't bring Einstein in to teach English. You bring him in to teach Math.

Add that to everything that's been said already - that offensive linemen are chosen on pass blocking ability - that practice time is spent on the passing game... etc...etc... and put it all together and you have your answer.

Gator fans will tell you that the lack of a running game is what hurt UF in key games time and time again. Spurrier advocates will point out that Errict Rhett and Fred Taylor got more than their share of carries when the occasion demanded it. That what hurt the Gators last year was not Spurrier's lack of utilization of the running game, but the absence of his best running back in both losses.

As fans we seem to demand perfection. In reality, with every coach comes both good and bad. With SOS, part of the dilemma is that his offense relies on so much practice time that the running game does get underdeveloped a bit.

Ask Gator fans if they think their running game is going to improve or worsen this year? It's almost unanimously thought that it will improve.

Again - the question comes back - "Why? Why doesn't he adapt?" The truth is of course that he does, just not as much as some would like him to. In the end the proof is in the pudding and he points to numbers that say "My way works." And he's right of course. Because that's who he is. He's the best passing game coach in the world. If the Skins wanted anything but - they chose the wrong guy.

[The Sisko]

Hey PediGator, quoting HBC as having said "My way works" is eerily similar ("What we do works") to a former Skins HC who was defrocked and sent packing. Not exactly the best way to curry favor on this board.

[Jeposhtidi]

First time poster but I just had to chime in. There seems to be some confusing of characteristics between the West Coast offense (and other passing offenses I guess) and Spurriers offense. The draw, while a part of Spurrier's offense, is not as big as some here seem to make it out to be. Neither is the scat back. The scat back is not the back of choice in the Spurrier offense. Robert Gillespie was not the Gator starting RB last year. Instead it was Graham, who is a power runner.

And perhaps the only other small, scat back type to have much success during Spurrier's Gator years was Elijah Williams (5'10" 190 or so). And Elijah was moved his senior year to cornerback in order to accomodate two big power backs at RB, namely Fred Taylor and Terry Jackson. Spurrier gravitates to a power running game style. Now it might not be what Redskin fans are used to but definitely it is closer to a power game than the West Coast type of running game.

Trust me, I think Stephen Davis is a great fit in this offense. Be patient and once the regular season starts I think you will see that.

[GatorRob]

Many folks here use Shula's dolphins as an example of a coach changing his offense based on the talent of his team, with the example of turning his offense from a running attack to a passing attack with the arrival of Dan Marino. This is not entirely accurate.

The last time the 'Phins were a dominant running team was in the days of Csonka, Kiick and Morris. In the years prior to Marino's arrival, Miami's QBs (David Woodley, Don Strock) were primarily passers. Miami's RBs were Delvin Williams and Tony Nathan. Williams had only one year with over 1000 yards rushing, while Nathan was well known as a RB who had great hands. Indeed, he led the team in receptions many times. Their receivers were Duriel Harris, Tommy Vigorito, and Nat Moore. Combined with Nathan, they usually had about 40-50 receptions apiece. When Marino came and showed astonishing passing skills AND the ability to adapt to the NFL quickly (unheard of for a QB), Shula took advantage by drafting great receivers like Mark Duper and Mark Clayton to complement Marino's skills.

Alas, in the process, Shula forgot to keep his defense strong. Miami's attack became similar to San Diego's. The result were zero Super Bowl titles.

Shula continued the trend that began a few years earlier. Spurrier is changing the philosophy completely. that said, I believe Davis CAN adapt, and Spurrier will use him to fullest advantage. The man knows his ball!

HTTR!

[kaffeen]

Jeposhtidi,

I believe Spurrier prefers a "finesse" and versatile runner (e.g. good hands) of average size versus a big one-dimensional "power" back (e.g. Davis).

Taylor, arguably the best and most successful running back in the Spurrer era at Flroida, was not a north-south runner. Fred was all about finesse, world class speed, outside running, and good hands. He *can* bang it up the middle when needed, but at Florida that was rarely the case (except in small yardage situations and even then half the time it was a QB sneak).

If Florida is running, it is almost always a draw play or running it outside. Either that or the Running Back is pass blocking or a safety valve receiver.

IMHO, for many reason, Davis is gone next year.

[Jeposhtidi]

I think we just disagree on some things. Draw plays and running wide are definately part of the scheme but to say that a Spurrier back is limited to those two plays is utterly ridiculous.

Actually, I don't even think Fred Taylor was the most successful back under Spurrier but rather Erict Rhett. I don't want to take anything away from Fred, he had a great career and a great senior year but...well maybe that argument is not for a Redskins board.

What is for a Redskins board is the fact that the majority of Spurrier's offense is not suited for scat backs. The scats have a place of course, third downs and whatever, but mainly he likes a back with power who can catch. To me that's Stephen Davis. I just don't think Stephen Davis is as one dimensional as you implied, but I guess time will tell.