Air Force Cane Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 What would President Lincoln do today? December 12th, 2005 www.americanthinker.com "Abraham Lincoln once wrote, “Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged.” Clement Vallandigham is not exactly a prominent name in the history of the Civil War, at least as that history is recounted these days. Perhaps that’s because traitorous behavior during wartime is not viewed as worthy of historical attention by the grandees of academia.Mr. Vallandigham, a Democrat congressman from Ohio during the War Between the States, was a bitter critic of President Lincoln. While troops were engaged in bloody battles on several fronts, Vallandigham continuously lashed out at Lincoln and the Republicans because of what he claimed was an improper handling of the war. Sound familiar? Inevitably, his carping was viewed as injurious to the morale of the soldiers. In May of 1863, on orders from the President, Major General Ambrose Burnside sent troops to place Vallandigham under arrest for sedition. He was charged with violating a law that prohibited the giving of aid and comfort to the enemy. Specifically, Vallandigham was charged with making “treasonable utterances.” He was tried by a military commission, convicted, and sentenced to a prison term. Lincoln, evidently feeling a rush of magnanimity, had the punishment commuted to banishment to the area behind Confederate lines. In other words, he sent the traitor to live with the enemies he had been aiding and abetting. The congressman fled to Canada, (does this also sound familiar?) where he remained in exile for a time before quietly returning to Ohio, where he passed away in 1871. Recently, Democrat Senator John Kerry, speaking on a nationwide news program, said, “There is no reason why American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the middle of the night, terrorizing women and children.” The very next day, Howard Dean, the Chairman of the Democrat National Committee stated on a San Antonio, Texas radio program, “The idea that we’re going to win the war in Iraq is an idea which is just plain wrong. I’ve seen this before in my life. This is the same situation we had in Vietnam.” In June of this year, Democrat Senator Dick Durbin remarked, after reading from a report that Guantanamo Bay detainees had been chained to a floor, forced to listen to loud rap music, and endure uncomfortable temperatures in their cells, “If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their Gulags, or some mad regime, Pol Pot or others, that had no concern for human beings.” Democrat Senator Ted Kennedy said, referring to the Abu Ghraib prison story which recounted the humiliation of suspected terrorists by a few rogue American service members, “We now learn that Saddam’s torture chambers reopened under new management, United States management.” Just a few weeks ago, Democrat Congressman John Murtha said the US should pull out the troops. What would Lincoln do?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyholetsgogrant Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 “Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged.” I pretty sure Lincoln would understand why this happing and the fact we go to war for no reason nowadays.....so where are the treason charges for anti-war people??????...better get on that. -Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 What would Lincoln do?" Probably laugh at your ludicrous posts from Freeper land :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Air Force Cane, do you know what the purpose of the first sedition acts (1798) in this country were? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Probably laugh at your ludicrous posts from Freeper land :laugh:In typical freeper fashion I noticed yet another use of only part of Kerry's quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Weird though, when McClellan ran against Lincoln on a peace platform that he wasn't arrested and exiled from the country. I sincerely hope you aren't citing one example of a political dissenter being arrested 140 years ago, with no context or even quotations of his remarks provided, as justification for any and all political dissenters being arrested in this country. Yikes dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 And I thought Sarge was pretty bad. You take the cake. He looks like a commie pinko next to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Force Cane Posted December 12, 2005 Author Share Posted December 12, 2005 pretty telling that the leftists have no actual defense of what the democrats SAY- you can only attack those who focus on what kerry/pelosi/boxer/murtha and the other's in the White Flag crowd say. just like the "America Firsters" from the 1930's are viewed as anti-semitic Nazi sympathizers today- so many on the far left today will be viewed as reactionary ideologues in another 30 years.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 You are getting your butt just crushed in this thread. Nobody gets where you're trying to come from, or who you're trying to blast with your hate right now. Just that you're full of hate. That's all you've proven here. Why not post some quote from even further back in history. Since things never change......except your hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 so many on the far left today will be viewed as reactionary ideologues in another 30 years.. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. People are entitled to disagree with you without having to deal with being accused of treason. We don't all want you to have to stand in line for a loaf of bread. Alot of us just don't want American boys getting their asses blown off for no reason. Of course, you wouldn't be able to see that, would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Another post from Air Force Cane and another attack on the liberal boogyman. What a shock. AFC seems completely unable to quote someone and actually dispute anything. Choosing instead to attack a phantom liberal target of his own creation. pretty telling that the leftists have no actual defense of what the democrats SAY-you can only attack those who focus on what kerry/pelosi/boxer/murtha and the other's in the White Flag crowd say. It would help if you and your sources were honest enough to actual include what they said, instead of portions removed from context as is the case in this thread. If you are so sure that you are right then why the need to be dishonest? just like the "America Firsters" from the 1930's are viewed as anti-semitic Nazi sympathizers today-so many on the far left today will be viewed as reactionary ideologues in another 30 years.. And they will be barely mentioned in chapters devoted to a nonexistent threat that started a war.....just like they are during the vietnam war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Abraham Lincoln was one of the greatest Presidents ever, but he was not perfect. His suspension of habeas corpus and his aggressive attacks on "sedition" are generally considered by historians to be his biggest faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 After the passage of the 1798 Sedition Act, Vice-President Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter: A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt. If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake. http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl122.htm After Thomas Jefferson was elected President in 1801, the Alien and Sedition Acts were not renewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 pretty telling that the leftists have no actual defense of what the democrats SAY- you can only attack those who focus on what kerry/pelosi/boxer/murtha and the other's in the White Flag crowd say. just like the "America Firsters" from the 1930's are viewed as anti-semitic Nazi sympathizers today- so many on the far left today will be viewed as reactionary ideologues in another 30 years.. What they said is irrelevant. If you really care, I disagree with what Kerry said. I REALLY disagree with pretty much everything Dean ever says. I think Durbin was being a reactionary partisan. But I think they all have the right to say it. You'll have to do better than dredging up some cursory information about a guy from the Civil War to make a convincing case to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gichin13 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Abraham Lincoln was one of the greatest Presidents ever, but he was not perfect. His suspension of habeas corpus and his aggressive attacks on "sedition" are generally considered by historians to be his biggest faults. Lincoln did not want to fight the war, but once it was on, he fought completely to win. He was definitely a pragmatist ... when the questions of victory versus constitutional principles came up, he invariably sided with victory. PS Even the Emancipation Proclamation may be viewed as a pragmatic effort to aid in enlisting additional fighting forces and weaken the enemy, as opposed to a merely principled stand for human rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 All the Lincoln fans should read The Real Lincoln. It changed my mind on the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 If Honest Abe were alive today, he would be man enough to say that he was wrong to do what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Force Cane Posted December 12, 2005 Author Share Posted December 12, 2005 good points Gichin- everyone on the left today acts as if this was the first war that the United States has ever fought. "oh no, you put women's underwear on a terrorist's head!!! how awful we are!!" the truth is that we gunned down German POW's in World War Two and bombed the cities of Germany back into the stone age. We killed literally a million civilians from 1941-1945. Yet I don't hear Howard Dean commenting on how bad FDR was.. Lincoln nearly destroyed the Republic to save her. Yet today lefties in San Francisco are marching about how wiretapping terrorists is the end of civilization as we know it. There is ZERO understanding of history on the part of the left. Even in WWI we were claiming neutrality while supporting the British. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 you know, now that we've gotten on the topic of politics v war, i have to hand something to bush. before you jump on me as being a conservative and such, i do not agree with everything bush says, and was disappointed there weren't better candidates for the election. now that i have that out of the way, one thing you have to admire about bush's iraq policy is that he is not backing down because it is hurting him politically. you never want to mix war and politics. his populaty may be getting lower as the term goes, people disagree with the war, and yet he doesn't give in to politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Poker - It's not hurting him politically at all. It's been an overall winning issue when the elections have come around. Look how well opposing him has done for the democrats. But I agree with you that he doesn't run at the first bad poll, his immigation plan (which I largely agree with) is proof of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 good points Gichin-everyone on the left today acts as if this was the first war that the United States has ever fought. "oh no, you put women's underwear on a terrorist's head!!! how awful we are!!" the truth is that we gunned down German POW's in World War Two and bombed the cities of Germany back into the stone age. We killed literally a million civilians from 1941-1945. Yet I don't hear Howard Dean commenting on how bad FDR was.. Lincoln nearly destroyed the Republic to save her. Yet today lefties in San Francisco are marching about how wiretapping terrorists is the end of civilization as we know it. There is ZERO understanding of history on the part of the left. Even in WWI we were claiming neutrality while supporting the British. Care to explain how this justifies arresting those who don't agree with you? Or how this has to do with anything, for that matter? And when you consider the fact that time changes alot, and when you take into account the variance of situations (which most conservatives have trouble doing), you should realize that applying things that worked in WWII or the Civil war won't work today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Probably laugh at your ludicrous posts from Freeper land :laugh: In the context of the two times: The bloodiest war to END the United States vs. A difference of Opinion over Iraq... (not the war on terror really).. my opinion... It's like equating this to the holocaust.. Every event has an equivalent and this is not on par with the Civil War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 All the Lincoln fans should read The Real Lincoln.It changed my mind on the man. the behind the scenes lincoln on the border states of slavery cemented my likings for him.. He did quite a bit to conjole and reward those that went his way BECAUSE he didnt have the power to force it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 There is ZERO understanding of history on the part of the left. This is such a really misguided sentence, especially considering the context of your original post. One could argue that the entire Iraq mess was based on a lack of an understanding of the history of Iraq, and the religous divisiveness between the Shiias, Sunnis and the Kurds. . . so the ZERO understanding of history would be our leaders as a whole, not just the democrats. Your post also seems to lack a certain understanding of war, diplomacy and politics. I would suggest reading Sun Tzu's the Art of War. You will have a better understanding of the bigger picture of everything, rather then just a microscopic focus of hate. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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