Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

To the young people complaining about Gibbs conservatism


Mickalino

Recommended Posts

I dropped in on the board once during gametime, and all I saw was a board full of threads about how Gibbs' playcalling was way too conservative, i.e. not going for it on 4th and 1 from the Rams' 25, along with the threads about how so many Redskins players suck (funny how the sentiment completely changed 2 hours later after the win). But anyhow, I just wanted to point out, that Gibbs has always been conservative. The game hasn't passed him by ; he isnt going senile. For those too young to remember, or simply dont care to, the Gibbs of 15 years ago would have kicked the same field goal attempt. He was conservative then, just as he is now. The only difference between then and now, is back then there was no internet for people to post 15 threads about how stupid he was for not going for it on 4th and short. Conservatism is one of his trademarks. Apparently some people have him confused with Bill Parcells

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sometimes a little too much is placed on gibbs. I am young and sometimes I have to admit I get frustrated at times in an age with the ball flying all over the place. However, I do see that when his plan pans out, it is very hard to stop. When we can chew up clock and wear down a team it is great, its just when it stalls that it can be frustrating. He has won titles doing it, and he has changed the perception of this team already in his second season, so I cant complain. The near future looks bright though because it seems as if Portis is used to running now with the extra weight and the offensive line is taking the running game personal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being conservative is one thing. Being overly conservative is another.

And for the record it wasnt that he kicked the FG there that bothered me, it was that he ran a QB sneak on 3rd and TWO! And then when that somehow got it within a few inches we didnt go for it. If you are gonna run a play that is designed for 1-2 yards at MOST, I dont see how you can not go for it if thats what you end up with. Personally I think the QB sneak call was the stupid one, not the FG call.

The other play that realy irked me was the WR Screen to Jacobs with plenty of time left but no time outs. We were in a great position to at least get a field goal out of that drive, but that play totally killed our chances. At least have the guts to throw the ball downfield. Its not like we were backed up in our own territory with no time left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being conservative is one thing. Being overly conservative is another.

And for the record it wasnt that he kicked the FG there that bothered me, it was that he ran a QB sneak on 3rd and TWO! And then when that somehow got it within a few inches we didnt go for it. If you are gonna run a play that is designed for 1-2 yards at MOST, I dont see how you can not go for it if thats what you end up with. Personally I think the QB sneak call was the stupid one, not the FG call.

The other play that realy irked me was the WR Screen to Jacobs with plenty of time left but no time outs. We were in a great position to at least get a field goal out of that drive, but that play totally killed our chances. At least have the guts to throw the ball downfield. Its not like we were backed up in our own territory with no time left.

Amen to that!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dropped in on the board once during gametime, and all I saw was a board full of threads about how Gibbs' playcalling was way too conservative, i.e. not going for it on 4th and 1 from the Rams' 25, along with the threads about how so many Redskins players suck (funny how the sentiment completely changed 2 hours later after the win). But anyhow, I just wanted to point out, that Gibbs has always been conservative. The game hasn't passed him by ; he isnt going senile. For those too young to remember, or simply dont care to, the Gibbs of 15 years ago would have kicked the same field goal attempt. He was conservative then, just as he is now. The only difference between then and now, is back then there was no internet for people to post 15 threads about how stupid he was for not going for it on 4th and short. Conservatism is one of his trademarks. Apparently some people have him confused with Bill Parcells

If you are old enough to remember all that, he had a group of receivers that allowed him to be conservative because of the tremendous leads he established. That is no longer the case. I am 43, old enough to remember everything, and he has been to conservative this year. His record is an example of what happens when you do not have a large enough lead to become conservative and run the ball on 3 straight downs. This in a new NFL and we have only had one big game. Yes, he should have gone for the first down on that drive, he ended up giving the Rams excellent field position with that decision. If you cannot gain less than a yard in the NFL you don't belong in this league. We have lost too many close games this year, the Rams are nothing to brag about, they are pitiful, and were in the game in the 4th qtr. I appreciate your loyalty to the man, but their is nothing wrong pointing out issues that have affected the outcome of 6 losses. Conservatism is one of those things, as well as questionable qb decisions, fumbles and other issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are old enough to remember all that, he had a group of receivers that allowed him to be conservative because of the tremendous leads he established. That is no longer the case. I am 43, old enough to remember everything, and he has been to conservative this year. His record is an example of what happens when you do not have a large enough lead to become conservative and run the ball on 3 straight downs. This in a new NFL and we have only had one big game. Yes, he should have gone for the first down on that drive, he ended up giving the Rams excellent field position with that decision. If you cannot gain less than a yard in the NFL you don't belong in this league. We have lost too many close games this year, the Rams are nothing to brag about, they are pitiful, and were in the game in the 4th qtr. I appreciate your loyalty to the man, but their is nothing wrong pointing out issues that have affected the outcome of 6 losses. Conservatism is one of those things, as well as questionable qb decisions, fumbles and other issues.

1 yard gains are missed in every game that is played on Sunday. Saying that any NFL can gain a yard at will is false. The very same thing that you stated allowed him to be conservative due to big leads, is the same thing that limits him now. It's hard to be dynamic when you have limited resources. For all the talent on this team, there are some missing pieces that are preventing success. We don't have a quality receiving corps and the O line isn't what it should be. We won't be a true contender until those things are fixed. A lot was fixed this last off season. I expect similar upgrades and improvements this coming off season. Next year will be the telling year for Joe Gibbs return.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being conservative is one thing. Being overly conservative is another.

And for the record it wasnt that he kicked the FG there that bothered me, it was that he ran a QB sneak on 3rd and TWO! And then when that somehow got it within a few inches we didnt go for it. If you are gonna run a play that is designed for 1-2 yards at MOST, I dont see how you can not go for it if thats what you end up with. Personally I think the QB sneak call was the stupid one, not the FG call.

The other play that realy irked me was the WR Screen to Jacobs with plenty of time left but no time outs. We were in a great position to at least get a field goal out of that drive, but that play totally killed our chances. At least have the guts to throw the ball downfield. Its not like we were backed up in our own territory with no time left.

Yeah, I agree with you on both points.. especially on the WR screen. I screamed at the TV and got extremely pissed at that playcall. I mean, WTF? I can imagine someone like Spurrier calling that play, but Gibbs? Its beyond stupid. The WR screen itself is a play that hardly ever works in the NFL, but it does work for us with Santana sometimes so if we were going to call such a retarded play we could have at least put it in our best receivers hands.

Actually though, I thought we should have went for it on 4th and 1, so I guess I do differ from you on that point, but pretty much else you are spot on IMO. We could have got it with either a run or QB sneak over the right side with Thomas who is playing lights out this year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are old enough to remember all that, he had a group of receivers that allowed him to be conservative because of the tremendous leads he established. That is no longer the case. I am 43, old enough to remember everything, and he has been to conservative this year. His record is an example of what happens when you do not have a large enough lead to become conservative and run the ball on 3 straight downs. This in a new NFL and we have only had one big game. Yes, he should have gone for the first down on that drive, he ended up giving the Rams excellent field position with that decision. If you cannot gain less than a yard in the NFL you don't belong in this league. We have lost too many close games this year, the Rams are nothing to brag about, they are pitiful, and were in the game in the 4th qtr. I appreciate your loyalty to the man, but their is nothing wrong pointing out issues that have affected the outcome of 6 losses. Conservatism is one of those things, as well as questionable qb decisions, fumbles and other issues.

The fact that we have a lesser quality personnel than he had in his glory days, is all the MORE reason for us to be conservative. If you have talented personnel, you can afford to take risks. If you have limited or inexperienced personnel, or simply guys who havnt quite grasped the Gibbs philosophy yet, it makes sense to rely on conservative, smart football. It's the same philosophy that made an average QB like Trent Dilfer a Super Bowl winner. And it's the same reason that Jason Campbell wont start for at least another year, or any other young player for that matter : before Gibbs bestows responsibility on ANYONE, or takes risks with ANYONE, you have to EARN it. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the sentiment changed at all after the win. I think most of the people complaining about the conservative calls haven't changed their mind. I for one still think he's was overly conservative during at least 2 points in the game (before the end of the 1st half, and on the 4th down call) and I have made no secret of that during the past 2 days. I'm not happy with those calls despite the win, and I think it's important to make it clear that the gibbs mentality behind those calls is the same mentality that has cost us most of our losses. If we want to beat dallas and the giants, we have to start thinking outside of the box that gibbs has nestled so tightly around our offense. If he doesn't open things up, we WILL NOT make the playoffs. If gibbs calls our division games like he called yesterdays game, it's not going to be pretty. It's great that we can beat up on the crappy teams, but that won't justify the conservative play calling against every team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What all you know-it-all football geniuses fail to realize is that Gibbs has managed to get a team with 3-9 talent to 6-6, and damn near better.

I agree... On paper, we look pretty awful....on both offense and defense.

Very few names on our roster would strik fear, or even much respect, from any opposing teams. Yet Gibbs and Williams have most of these guys overachieving.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Gibbs is trying to build a team that will resemble the Colts, and up and coming Bengals. Even Denver. The longer a team is in an established scheme, with quirks here or there, the more comfortable they become. The Skins are better then they were last year, and they'll be better next year. And likely continue to become better. This team has stunk too long, and thinking we're gonna swap a player in and out at this point to make the team much better, or that throwing the ball deep just to take a chance is gonna win games shows how many people play too many video games and don't watch or play the actual game. Know the players strengths and weaknesses.

Sorry, I've done both, and its easy to sit and say "put this guy in, he's fasters, stronger, blah blah blah". That does not make a team better. That's why Spurrier is not an NFL coach, where the schemes are much more complicated, and games too fast for all stretch plays to develop.

The Colts, for example, are better for a few reasons. One, a defensive minded head coach who came into an establish offensive powerhouse. Now Gibbs inherited a complete mess, a steaming pile of crap. He's squeezing all he can out of it to make a diamond, and I see way too often people suggesting he's not doing a good job, not calling things aggressive enough. They'll site the players backing this up, but ya know what, that's why they're players and Gibbs is a coach. I'm glad they said that fire from the players, because it means they want to smash people in the mouth, which shows fire, and attitude..a desire to win. Gibbs will take chances, but not too many with a team that lacks any deep threats besides Moss.

Dang. If it was just speed, we'd hire the Olympic track team, strength the powerlifters. I think people are very quick to slam this team, but I am here to praise them. They're working their butts off, and I am glad to see that fire. That's what will lead to good teams to come, as this team tries to find itself. I picked them to win the Superbowl, because I'm a homer, but I do that every year. Its part of being a fan, and if a play here or there went the Skins way, they'd be in the NFC East lead. The plays didn't, and so the Skins are on the cusp looking in. Such is life, but this team is getting better and I'm glad to see a coaching staff and organization that is pumping life into the team, rather then seeing them wither up like too many recent years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can certainly say Gibbs was conservative back then, and many of us did, but he had the personnel to make it work. Playing "conservative" wasn't so bad when you could pound Riggins and get 3-5 yards on almost every play. That's the difference -- back then playing conservative didn't mean 3 and outs. It meant forcing your will on an opponent in a way that simply demoralized them.

You can't be successful doing this with a running game that makes 3-5 yards on average but on any given play is just as likely to get stuffed for no gain as to make 8 yards. You need to know 2 runs will get you 7-8 yards consistently, and a run on 3rd and short is almost automatic. We don't have this now. Whether it be Portis, the O-line, the combination of the two.

Although Portis isn't the ideal power runner, I'm most disappointed with the O-line. Other teams with less heralded/well paid lines (eg, Carolina) seem to be much better at getting the tough yards...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dropped in on the board once during gametime, and all I saw was a board full of threads about how Gibbs' playcalling was way too conservative, i.e. not going for it on 4th and 1 from the Rams' 25, along with the threads about how so many Redskins players suck (funny how the sentiment completely changed 2 hours later after the win). But anyhow, I just wanted to point out, that Gibbs has always been conservative. The game hasn't passed him by ; he isnt going senile. For those too young to remember, or simply dont care to, the Gibbs of 15 years ago would have kicked the same field goal attempt. He was conservative then, just as he is now. The only difference between then and now, is back then there was no internet for people to post 15 threads about how stupid he was for not going for it on 4th and short. Conservatism is one of his trademarks. Apparently some people have him confused with Bill Parcells

i remember the good old run, run, incomplete pass, punt drives from the earlier years too :)

The one problem Gibbs is going to have now is he is not going to be able to keep all the players he wants, which I think will keep him from getting another ring. He is doing a great job, but not being able to keep the players and coaches you want is going to keep him from his ultimate goal, i pray i am wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love Gibbs, and HOF credentials and 3 SB's dont lie, but whats up with this formula?

get lead, then play to lose.

1st down: Run

Running the ball runs out the clock, or at least it's supposed to, if executed properly.

2nd down: Run

See above response.

3rd down: Pass or (suprise) Run again

Pass only when absolutely necessary, in order to maintain possession for the next first down, and thereby continue to run out the clock, or at least attempt to do so, with proper execution. And by minimizing passes, you also minimize chance for Interceptions, Sacks, and QB Blindside Fumbles.

4th Punt......

thats just plain stupid.

No, that's what happens, when either you dont have the proper personnel, or the personnel you have does not execute.

Would you rather have Spurrier's offense gunning it away on every down, and just knock off 1 minute from the clock per drive, and also risk turnovers by putting it in the air more often ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since when is passing the ball considered "taking chances"?

I don't mind conservative playcalling. If the other team can't stop your running game, then go ahead and run. The problem is when you abandon what has been working to run-run-pass to protect the lead.

We had a nice rhythm going against San Diego both before the last drive of the half and before the 4th quarter, but we abandoned it to run out the clock and protect the lead. You can't pin that on execution because we had been executing. The playcalling was different on the 3 and outs than it was on the touchdown drives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing about running out the clock just doesn't fly if there's close to 10 min left in the quarter and you don't even have a 2 TD lead. You need to think about scoring points and not just trying to run out the clock assuming the other team is just going to roll over because they're losing. That itself is the problem, relying entirely on the defense and just giving up totally after going for the win. It's cost us 3 games straight before the last game and if it continues will probably cost us again before the season is out.

There really was no reason to kick a field goal at that point in the game, you're only up by 7 and again, have a chance to really stick it to them by going for it on 4th down and taking thier crowd completely out of it. Instead you go for a long field goal and miss, just gutless playing calling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dropped in on the board once during gametime, and all I saw was a board full of threads about how Gibbs' playcalling was way too conservative, i.e. not going for it on 4th and 1 from the Rams' 25, along with the threads about how so many Redskins players suck (funny how the sentiment completely changed 2 hours later after the win). But anyhow, I just wanted to point out, that Gibbs has always been conservative. The game hasn't passed him by ; he isnt going senile. For those too young to remember, or simply dont care to, the Gibbs of 15 years ago would have kicked the same field goal attempt. He was conservative then, just as he is now. The only difference between then and now, is back then there was no internet for people to post 15 threads about how stupid he was for not going for it on 4th and short. Conservatism is one of his trademarks. Apparently some people have him confused with Bill Parcells

There is a large black and white photo hanging on my bonus room wall of a game where Joe Gibbs went for it on 4th and 1. I remember the play vividly. A guy wearing #44 gets the ball and takes it to the house. I think his name was Riggins. No field goal (or punt) was attempted on that play.

Not to mention, a hallmark of previous Gibbs' teams included downfield passes. Thus, the posse, the smurfs, fun bunch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great points Mr. Happy, Aluadan, and mcgraw. The bottom line is this team gets more clutch first downs passing than it does running. Mickalino you blame our inability to run the game out on a lack of "execution" and because we don't have the right players that Gibbs use to have. Well, whether that may or may not be the case, and aside from the fact that teams stack the box because they know exactly what we're going to do, I'm not going to get into that. But a good coach also knows the strenghts and weaknesses of his team as it stands on the field. If we truly can't "execute" these run plays properly, as you claim, and which is true when it comes down to it in the 4th quarter (and part of the reason is because we become so 1-dimensional), Gibbs should be able to see how effective our short passing game is and use it. He shouldn't force the team to be something its not - which is a ground it out powerhouse. Sure we can grind it against the rams and the cardinals, but I don't think thats gonna work against dallas and new york.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

for those with no patience for Gibbs' game that's too young to rememer, you woud have pulled your hair out in 1982. Alot of close, low scoring games including one or two that we won on all field goals(vs Giants, @ Cards)

I do agree that a 7 point lead with 12 minutes left aint the time to burn clock to win. I feel you need at least 2 TD lead then. At 5-6 minutes I could see slowing it down

You gotta give JG props for throwing on 3rd & goal with a 17-9 lead late in the game. I thought for sure he'd run it up the gut and settle for 20-9

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dropped in on the board once during gametime, and all I saw was a board full of threads about how Gibbs' playcalling was way too conservative, i.e. not going for it on 4th and 1 from the Rams' 25, along with the threads about how so many Redskins players suck (funny how the sentiment completely changed 2 hours later after the win). But anyhow, I just wanted to point out, that Gibbs has always been conservative. The game hasn't passed him by ; he isnt going senile. For those too young to remember, or simply dont care to, the Gibbs of 15 years ago would have kicked the same field goal attempt. He was conservative then, just as he is now. The only difference between then and now, is back then there was no internet for people to post 15 threads about how stupid he was for not going for it on 4th and short. Conservatism is one of his trademarks. Apparently some people have him confused with Bill Parcells

I don't think that everyone was complaining about how inconsistent he is between his two coaching tenures. I think everyone is comparing his conservative approach to today's NFL, which is much more explosive offensively and very difficult to run against.

I'm not too worried though. He went through dramatic change over the offseason and I'm sure he'll be evolving even more.

My problem is that he lacks the swagger that is needed to inspire his offensive players and coaches with confidence. Greg Williams has that swagger and you can see it in the defense. The offense often seems to be playing in this "just don't screw it up" mentality. You can almost feel JG's heart rate going up and his willingness to risk anything pumetting at the end of games through his play calling. It is much less apparent this season compared to last.

Year 3 for Gibbs will be a great one. He'll get his swagger back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...