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Remember the Marine that called Murtha a coward?


Joe Sick

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Suprise, surprise: he didn't...

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/22/schmidt-marine/

During Rep. Jean Schmidt’s (R-OH) shameful attack on Rep. Jack Murtha (D-PA) on the House Floor she said she was communicating a message from Marine Colonel Danny Bubp:

A few minutes ago I received a call from Colonel Danny Bubp, Ohio Representative from the 88th district in the House of Representatives. He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run, Marines never do. Danny and the rest of America and the world want the assurance from this body – that we will see this through.

Bubp denies he said that:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051122/NEWS01/511220352

Danny Bubp, a freshman state representative who is a colonel in the Marine Corps Reserve, told The Enquirer that he never mentioned Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., by name when talking with Schmidt…”There was no discussion of him personally being a coward or about any person being a coward,” Bubp said.

----

Here is her hypocritical statement when elected to office:

I pledge to walk in the shoes of my colleagues and refrain from name-calling or the questioning of character," Schmidt said then. "It is easy to quickly sink to the lowest form of political debate. Harsh words often lead to headlines, but walking this path is not a victimless crime. This great House pays the price."

----

Where is the outrage for her using this military person for her talking points and personal attacks?

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Nothing in the article says that Danny Bubp denied saying "Cowards cut and run, Marines never do." And Bubp never referred to John Murtha "by name", but it's quite possible that he referred to "the guy who is proposing we withdraw" or something similar -- the article doesn't rule that out. And Jean Schmidt never directly called anyone a coward -- it was a harsh statement, thrown out there in a "if the shoe fits" manner, and implied that Bubp thought it fit Murtha. (edit) And based on the immediate uproar, the shoe seemed to fit a lot of people.

But just so everyone is clear, I'll just say it again, for everyone's consumption:

Cowards cut and run, Marines never do.

(Unless ordered to do so by a coward.)

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I don't have to defend her.

I don't have to defend Murtha.. I agree with his assessment.

All I have to do is point out the obvious.

Nowhere in that statement does she say anything about Murtha being a coward.

If you infer it fine.. its not there, but infer away.

The above statement does not say Bufford can't read.

You could say it does, but it doesnt.

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And it never specifically says that there can't be another Colonel Bubp. And it doesn't specify that there wasn't another phone call. And no one's certified that Colonel Bubh isn't delusional, and that maybe he said those things, but now he thinks he didn't. And clearly this so-called Colonel (notice: they don't say he's a reserve colonel. It's like their's this conspiracy to try to make this clearly anti-american article look respectable, by trying to cloak this cowardly attack on our brave Senators in the honor that real fighting men (and women) (who never disagree with government policy) have paid for with their blood.

(They're comming to take me away, ha-ha, ho-ho, he-he, . . . )

-----

And just so everyone is clear:

Cowards call people names and then try to claim they didn't. Honest people never do.

(Unless ordered to do so by a coward.)

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I don't have to defend her.

I don't have to defend Murtha.. I agree with his assessment.

All I have to do is point out the obvious.

Nowhere in that statement does she say anything about Murtha being a coward.

If you infer it fine.. its not there, but infer away.

The above statement does not say Bufford can't read.

You could say it does, but it doesnt.

I wasn't responding to you.

but, thanks

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Nothing in the article says that Danny Bubp denied saying "Cowards cut and run, Marines never do." And Bubp never referred to John Murtha "by name", but it's quite possible that he referred to "the guy who is proposing we withdraw" or something similar -- the article doesn't rule that out. And Jean Schmidt never directly called anyone a coward -- it was a harsh statement, thrown out there in a "if the shoe fits" manner, and implied that Bubp thought it fit Murtha. (edit) And based on the immediate uproar, the shoe seemed to fit a lot of people.

But just so everyone is clear, I'll just say it again, for everyone's consumption:

Cowards cut and run, Marines never do.

(Unless ordered to do so by a coward.)

I guess that makes us cowards the smart ones.

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And it never specifically says that there can't be another Colonel Bubp. And it doesn't specify that there wasn't another phone call. And no one's certified that Colonel Bubh isn't delusional, and that maybe he said those things, but now he thinks he didn't. And clearly this so-called Colonel (notice: they don't say he's a reserve colonel. It's like their's this conspiracy to try to make this clearly anti-american article look respectable, by trying to cloak this cowardly attack on our brave Senators in the honor that real fighting men (and women) (who never disagree with government policy) have paid for with their blood.

(They're comming to take me away, ha-ha, ho-ho, he-he, . . . )

-----

And just so everyone is clear:

Cowards call people names and then try to claim they didn't. Honest people never do.

(Unless ordered to do so by a coward.)

Oh, did I push a botton?

It's obvious from the article that the talked to the one and only relevant Col. Bubp. Only one phone call was mentioned by Schmidt, so there is no reason to assume there might have been another one. And Bubp seemed lucid to everyone involved, so there's no need to quesiton his mental status. There's no such thing as a "reserve colonel", just colonels in the reserves. On the other hand...

If Bubp had denied saying "Cowards cut and run, Marines never do", that would have been VERY newsworthy. So it's safe to conclude from the fact that no denial was reported, that he actually said those words.

Try not to drool on yourself.

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If Bubp had denied saying "Cowards cut and run, Marines never do", that would have been VERY newsworthy.

Well, then I guess this IS news, and YOU are wrong. . . yet again :doh:

Danny Bubp, a freshman state representative who is a colonel in the Marine Corps Reserve, told The Enquirer that he never mentioned Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., by name when talking with Schmidt, and he would never call a fellow Marine a coward.

"There was no discussion of him personally being a coward or about any person being a coward," Bubp said."My message to the folks in Washington, D.C., and to all the Congress people up there, is to stay the course. We cannot leave Iraq or cut and run - any terminology that you want to use."

source

BTW, it's not the "National Enquirer", but a local Ohio paper.

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Well, then I guess this IS news, and YOU are wrong. . . yet again.

Chom, Bubp could easily have made the comment "Cowards cut and run, Marines never do" in a conversation with Schmidt without directing that comment at anyone (try focusing on the word "Marines", not on the word "cowards"). Which means he could have had his conversation with Schmidt and included "no discussion of [Murtha] personally being a coward or about any person being a coward." It appears to be Schmidt's error in implying the comment was directed toward Murtha. But I seriously doubt Schmidt made the words up -- which means Bubp actually said them.

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Chom, Bubp could easily have made the comment "Cowards cut and run, Marines never do" in a conversation with Schmidt without directing that comment at anyone (try focusing on the word "Marines", not on the word "cowards"). Which means he could have had his conversation with Schmidt and included "no discussion of [Murtha] personally being a coward or about any person being a coward." It appears to be Schmidt's error in implying the comment was directed toward Murtha. But I seriously doubt Schmidt made the words up -- which means Bubp actually said them.

All I know is that he has denied saying it, so I tend to take him on his word, rather then put words in his mouth.

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All I know is that he has denied saying it, so I tend to take him on his word, rather then put words in his mouth.

What he said was "There was no discussion of him personally being a coward or about any person being a coward." That's a whole lot different that saying "I never said that cowards cut and run, Marines never do."

So he didn't deny saying it, where "it" is "cowards cut and run, Marines never do." Unless you read a different article or saw a different interview?

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What he said was "There was no discussion of him personally being a coward or about any person being a coward." That's a whole lot different that saying "I never said that cowards cut and run, Marines never do."

So he didn't deny saying it, where "it" is "cowards cut and run, Marines never do." Unless you read a different article or saw a different interview?

Grasping at straws.

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You have to come up with better commentary than this pathetic defense mechanism.

You are about inciting argument vice discussion.

Blue Talon is debating the semantics of what was said to prove that he didn't NECESSARILY negate what the congresswoman said.

That is grasping at straws. He is attempting to prove that there is a slim chance she didn't lie. Not proving that she didn't lie, but proving there is a slim chance she didn't, based on a word-for-word comparison.

That is grasping at straws.

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Nothing in the article says that Danny Bubp denied saying "Cowards cut and run, Marines never do." And Bubp never referred to John Murtha "by name", but it's quite possible that he referred to "the guy who is proposing we withdraw" or something similar -- the article doesn't rule that out. And Jean Schmidt never directly called anyone a coward -- it was a harsh statement, thrown out there in a "if the shoe fits" manner, and implied that Bubp thought it fit Murtha. (edit) And based on the immediate uproar, the shoe seemed to fit a lot of people.

But just so everyone is clear, I'll just say it again, for everyone's consumption:

Cowards cut and run, Marines never do.

(Unless ordered to do so by a coward.)

it didn't say by name it said personally

” 'There was no discussion of him personally being a coward or about any person being a coward,' Bubp said."

so no he COULDN'T have referred to him personally about being a coward or "any person being a coward." (which strangely enough would include your "the guy who wanted us to pull out" )

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Perhaps Murtha simply is remaining consistant with his record.

http://newsbusters.org/node/2919

On September 30, 1993, Rowan Scarborough reported for the Washington Times:

“Members of Congress said yesterday that President Clinton must settle affairs in Somalia before Congress will go along with a potentially more dangerous peacekeeping mission in Bosnia.

“Meanwhile, they continued to send signals that the president will bring American troops home from Somalia short of achieving security goals put forth in August.

“‘We're going to have a hard time passing any kind of resolution to go into Bosnia if we continue the confrontation in Somalia,’ said Rep. John Murtha, Pennsylvania Democrat and chairman of the House Appropriations subcommittee on defense.

“‘Our welcome has been worn out,’ Mr. Murtha said on NBC's ‘Today’ show, adding that Mr. Clinton has been ‘listening to our suggestions. And I think you'll see him move those troops out very quickly.’

“With those comments, Mr. Murtha joined a small but influential list of Democratic lawmakers who have publicly urged the president to change the mission in Somalia.”

Or this:

On September 22, 1993, an Associated Press story stated:

“Exasperated by the long-running U.S. military involvement in Somalia, a congressional panel voted Wednesday to impose conditions on President Clinton's ability to deploy forces for future humanitarian operations.”

“Murtha, who has urged Clinton to withdraw U.S. forces from Somalia, recalled that President Bush told him last December, when troops first were sent to the war-torn region, that they would be out by Inauguration Day.

“‘I don't know whose inauguration,’ Murtha quipped.”

Of course withdrawal prompted THIS from Bin Laden:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html

"But your most disgraceful case was in Somalia; where- after vigorous propaganda about the power of the USA and its post cold war leadership of the new world order- you moved tens of thousands of international force, including twenty eight thousands American solders into Somalia. However, when tens of your solders were killed in minor battles and one American Pilot was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left the area carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you. Clinton appeared in front of the whole world threatening and promising revenge , but these threats were merely a preparation for withdrawal. You have been disgraced by Allah and you withdrew; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became very clear. It was a pleasure for the ‘heart’ of every Muslim and a remedy to the ‘chests’ of believing nations to see you defeated in the three Islamic cities of Beirut , Aden and Mogadishu."

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Blue Talon is debating the semantics of what was said to prove that he didn't NECESSARILY negate what the congresswoman said.

That is grasping at straws. He is attempting to prove that there is a slim chance she didn't lie. Not proving that she didn't lie, but proving there is a slim chance she didn't, based on a word-for-word comparison.

That is grasping at straws.

I'm fully willing to concede that Schmidt made an egregious error when she directed "Cowards cut and run, Marines never do" to Murtha. But I'm not willing to concede that she made those words up. I would like for any of you liberal types who are claiming Schmidt is a liar to tell me she made those words up, and back it up with something besides what has been presented here so far. (The accusation relies on semantics every bit as much as the defense does.)

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Perhaps Murtha simply is remaining consistant with his record.

http://newsbusters.org/node/2919

On September 30, 1993, Rowan Scarborough reported for the Washington Times:

“Members of Congress said yesterday that President Clinton must settle affairs in Somalia before Congress will go along with a potentially more dangerous peacekeeping mission in Bosnia.

“Meanwhile, they continued to send signals that the president will bring American troops home from Somalia short of achieving security goals put forth in August.

“‘We're going to have a hard time passing any kind of resolution to go into Bosnia if we continue the confrontation in Somalia,’ said Rep. John Murtha, Pennsylvania Democrat and chairman of the House Appropriations subcommittee on defense.

“‘Our welcome has been worn out,’ Mr. Murtha said on NBC's ‘Today’ show, adding that Mr. Clinton has been ‘listening to our suggestions. And I think you'll see him move those troops out very quickly.’

“With those comments, Mr. Murtha joined a small but influential list of Democratic lawmakers who have publicly urged the president to change the mission in Somalia.”

Or this:

On September 22, 1993, an Associated Press story stated:

“Exasperated by the long-running U.S. military involvement in Somalia, a congressional panel voted Wednesday to impose conditions on President Clinton's ability to deploy forces for future humanitarian operations.”

“Murtha, who has urged Clinton to withdraw U.S. forces from Somalia, recalled that President Bush told him last December, when troops first were sent to the war-torn region, that they would be out by Inauguration Day.

“‘I don't know whose inauguration,’ Murtha quipped.”

Of course withdrawal prompted THIS from Bin Laden:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html

"But your most disgraceful case was in Somalia; where- after vigorous propaganda about the power of the USA and its post cold war leadership of the new world order- you moved tens of thousands of international force, including twenty eight thousands American solders into Somalia. However, when tens of your solders were killed in minor battles and one American Pilot was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left the area carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you. Clinton appeared in front of the whole world threatening and promising revenge , but these threats were merely a preparation for withdrawal. You have been disgraced by Allah and you withdrew; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became very clear. It was a pleasure for the ‘heart’ of every Muslim and a remedy to the ‘chests’ of believing nations to see you defeated in the three Islamic cities of Beirut , Aden and Mogadishu."

And your point is "Murthas are consistant in their beliefs and stand up for them, Bushies never do"?

:)

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And it never specifically says that there can't be another Colonel Bubp. And it doesn't specify that there wasn't another phone call. And no one's certified that Colonel Bubh isn't delusional, and that maybe he said those things, but now he thinks he didn't. And clearly this so-called Colonel (notice: they don't say he's a reserve colonel. It's like their's this conspiracy to try to make this clearly anti-american article look respectable, by trying to cloak this cowardly attack on our brave Senators in the honor that real fighting men (and women) (who never disagree with government policy) have paid for with their blood.

(They're comming to take me away, ha-ha, ho-ho, he-he, . . . )

-----

And just so everyone is clear:

Cowards call people names and then try to claim they didn't. Honest people never do.

(Unless ordered to do so by a coward.)

Dang Larry. I know you're fond of underlines, but geez. :doh:

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And your point is "Murthas are consistant in their beliefs and stand up for them, Bushies never do"?

:)

Actually my point is he and Bush(like the rest of us) have differing views ,although as leaders of our country thier views and actions have a greater impact on our lives.

There is ample evidence Murtha historicaly does not wish to expose our servicemen to excessive risk...I can understand that,even if I disagree personaly and feel the results of too early of a withdrawall will be much like Somalia.

BTW. Bush seems to be standing up for his as well ;)

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Of course withdrawal prompted THIS from Bin Laden:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html

"But your most disgraceful case was in Somalia; where- after vigorous propaganda about the power of the USA and its post cold war leadership of the new world order- you moved tens of thousands of international force, including twenty eight thousands American solders into Somalia. However, when tens of your solders were killed in minor battles and one American Pilot was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left the area carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you. Clinton appeared in front of the whole world threatening and promising revenge , but these threats were merely a preparation for withdrawal. You have been disgraced by Allah and you withdrew; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became very clear. It was a pleasure for the ‘heart’ of every Muslim and a remedy to the ‘chests’ of believing nations to see you defeated in the three Islamic cities of Beirut , Aden and Mogadishu."

A very telling statement. Perhaps it deserves its own thread??

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