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What constitutes virginity?


Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin

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I'm having a debate with someone about this right now. What constitutes virginity and is the "intercourse" boundary something that is and has been understood as the only meaningful definition or does someone being a virgin imply something beyond that narrow interpretation?

I'm of the mind that the word has very little meaning, real meaning, if one must only refrain from vaginal intercourse.

I believe that the word has been corrupted from its 'understood' meaning, which was a lack of sexual contact, into the more literal sense of 'no intercourse.' BUt that, to me, is a copout. If you walk in on your wife engaged in oral sex, will it be less of an outrage than intercourse?

And are lesbians perpetual virgins?

Why does it seem like people have an investment in the 'technical' definition of the word?

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the person he's arguing with is me :)

Virginity means the person has not had intercourse. Plain and simple.

Or people who have a vested interest in maintaining this narrow definition believe so.

Is it because they believe they can operate under an umbrella of impunity and immunity if they do everything UP TO that act?

I don't know.

Seems to me that the word has an understood meaning that has changed as society has changed (ie. looser.)

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So a girl could be a slut and still be a virgin. Interesting

That's my point. A friend of mine says, "there's more to life than practical considerations, but by holding to this definition, they seem to be excluding practical concerns."

Like emotional and mental outlook and approach and the level of 'innocence'(meaning more 'new to the whole thing' aspect) and even more basic concerns like STDs.

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Well if Intercourse is "going all the way" then I would have to say you are a virgin unless you have had sexual intercourse.

A more intriguing question is, what if a guy, who is a virgin, starts intercourse, but can't complete it, due to first time jitters, ala lack of experience, is he still a virgin?

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Or people who have a vested interest in maintaining this narrow definition believe so.

Is it because they believe they can operate under an umbrella of impunity and immunity if they do everything UP TO that act?

I don't know.

Seems to me that the word has an understood meaning that has changed as society has changed (ie. looser.)

it has nothing to do with that. I think of oral as a "lesser" act, while many people think of it as something much more. Yes, the answer would be different when asked how many people I've "hooked up" with (everything leading up to sex) as opposed to how many guys I've "had intercourse" with.

It's not that I'm trying to hide the other guys, it's just my personal point of view.

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it has nothing to do with that. I think of oral as a "lesser" act, while many people think of it as something much more. Yes, the answer would be different when asked how many people I've "hooked up" with (everything leading up to sex) as opposed to how many guys I've "had intercourse" with.

It's not that I'm trying to hide the other guys, it's just my personal point of view.

I'm not saying YOU are trying to hide, but I believe the initial 're-interpretation' (denotation where once there was connotation) was for this purpose.

It may indeed be a lesser act, but it is not so far below the ultimate form of sexual conduct as, say, holding hands is to everything but 'sex.'

In any event, as most people would understand it emotionally before this re-imagining (this is my view, of course) it would mean someone who was not sexually experienced.

Maybe i just remember too many conversations with people (from all different experience levels) where people hid behind this barrier (or used my definition to pump up their numbers lol.)

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So a girl could be a slut and still be a virgin. Interesting

I wouldn't use the word "slut" to define girls with loose mouths. "Slut" is generally used for girls with loose....u know.

A girl can be called "scandalous" or "skanky" or "hoochie" for doing things other than having intercourse. Or, if you really want to use the word, a "mouth slut".

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I wouldn't use the word "slut" to define girls with loose mouths. "Slut" is generally used for girls with loose....u know.

A girl can be called "scandalous" or "skanky" or "hoochie" for doing things other than having intercourse. Or, if you really want to use the word, a "mouth slut".

I don't get these specificities. They seem entirely improvised to me, to skirt the understood and emotional response of the word virgin.

I mean, if some dude is getting or giving mad oral sex, come up with whatever term you like, it really ain't no difference between that and him having sex. ESPECIALLY, if it's a choice or health/pregnancy consideration. There is no substantive difference or distinction in his mind, provided the genitals are stimulated.

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I don't see how people can think Oral is a lesser act. To me it is something much more intimant that I wouldn't casually do, my girl knows she is special because she gets those types of things.

Well you know all those middle school kids are doing it right now because they don't want to go all the way. It's something that they believe is safe (even though it technically isn't) but know they can't get pregnant from.

I'm not saying I "casually" do it, or look at it as something very casual that everyone gets...no type of sex is ever really casual unless you're a porn star.

Again, it's my own opinion.

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Well you know all those middle school kids are doing it right now because they don't want to go all the way. It's something that they believe is safe (even though it technically isn't) but know they can't get pregnant from.

I'm not saying I "casually" do it, or look at it as something very casual that everyone gets...no type of sex is ever really casual unless you're a porn star.

Again, it's my own opinion.

But that reflects, in my mind, that changing standards are what led to the dilution of the word's power. It means nothing if you can do everything BUT and say, "Im PROUD To be a virgin!" It means NOTHING. Other than a low risk of getting pregnant.

You said middle school kids are doing it because they dont want to go all the way because the word 'virgin' now only has the narrower definition but it still has value to them (or they just think its safer.) But that reflects a relatively new vision of what the word means. Your example proves my point, I think.

It's not even about if one views it cavalierly. One can be cavalier about hot monkey action with real monkeys. I'm just saying the word had an understood, if not literal, meaning and that it has been diminished and weakened with diminished and weakened standards (forget moral, semantical.)

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I don't get these specificities. They seem entirely improvised to me, to skirt the understood and emotional response of the word virgin.

I mean, if some dude is getting or giving mad oral sex, come up with whatever term you like, it really ain't no difference between that and him having sex. ESPECIALLY, if it's a choice or health/pregnancy consideration. There is no substantive difference or distinction in his mind, provided the genitals are stimulated.

I disagree. And this is funny, because I was the one all heated about drugs when everyone was talking about legal marijuana and now I'm the one being pretty damn liberal right here. When getting into guys getting into a bunch of different sexual acts, you have to also think about gender stereotypes and how men are considered "studs" and "players" and that is is "cool" for them to be doing all sorts of things. You can't really compare a female who gives a lot of head to a guy who does the same thing, based on gender biases.

But that's besides the point. There IS a difference between a guy who's goin down and a guy who's penetrating.

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:laugh: Well I would say virginal would refer to a state of sexual purity or abstinance.

Virginity is lost IMO when you recieve or place a sexual member in another persons body...any orifice will do .

Sounds like something a Jesuit would say ;)

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I think it's weird though that girls often justify their behaivor because "it's just a BJ" I mean I think it would be funny if guys ran around just giving oral sex, but not intercourse, that would be kind of funny

and if they did that, they'd be given a pat on the back, not called "sluts" or anything of the sort.

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In the immortal words of the late Johnny Cochran.

No copulation without representation.

Or was that Patrick Henry?

Gotta go with Ghost here - its a meaningless word - if you're engaging in sexual activities, except the full-blown act (no pun intended), you're just parsing words. Sex is sex in my humble opinion. I think its great to have some elevated standard of what you will and won't do, and of course thats entirely personal. But to make some enormous deal (at least once you're an adult) about committing the actual act, I think is a mistake. It just creates a lot of needless guilt, and honestly, I think it robs you of truly enjoying a close relationship with someone. Just my opinion though.

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I disagree. And this is funny, because I was the one all heated about drugs when everyone was talking about legal marijuana and now I'm the one being pretty damn liberal right here. When getting into guys getting into a bunch of different sexual acts, you have to also think about gender stereotypes and how men are considered "studs" and "players" and that is is "cool" for them to be doing all sorts of things. You can't really compare a female who gives a lot of head to a guy who does the same thing, based on gender biases.

But that's besides the point. There IS a difference between a guy who's goin down and a guy who's penetrating.

It's NOT Liberal or conservative. Well, you brought that into it just now, I mena.

You actually just touched on something my friend said.

" yes, but it's a move that's psychologically therapeutic in a society that still expects men to be __having sex__ and women to be chaste. you can see that as the schizo response to a schizo set of societal expectations"

But that's my whole point. It's a response but not one based on the subtle but comprehensive understandings of a word. Well, the culture has changed, so maybe that IS the comprehensive meaning of the word.

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a guy can never be a virgin cause hes always been through a vagina :silly:

I see your point ghost. I knew alot of "anal/oral virgins" in my time. To those who desire virgins, what they want is a women devoid of sexual contact so that when they introduce them to it whatever they give them is better than slice bread. Thats why virgins are rewards for terrorists, now for another kind of outlook on virgin market value there is not having a mans semen in them ever. I saw some special on racist groups and they talked about a women who has had inferior sperm in them will forever be tainted. They gave some medical term for it, and I thought no way theres a term for it. Looked it up and there was, but it was one of those theories that couldnt be proven type of thing.

So a virgin has two values, one to the sexual dominant and the other to the breeder. I personally shy away from virgins, its been my experience that virgins place way too much value on sex and a break up will be painfull and time consuming. That said, if I met a virgin and she was everything I wanted I would rub off the excess till we wed. As a rule though, if its just an ordinary girl that has no quality drawing me more than sex and shes a virgin I will find another port. Only cause I dont want to be her first unless I plan to be with her forever, I dont need the ego boost of being her best ever :silly:

Really the question is really unanswerable, cause virginity spiritually means several things to several different groups for several different reasons. Women can bust their hymens without ever having sex from what Ive heard, and Ive known girls who never took one in the v but had no problem taking the spike in the a. So really it all just boils down to what you personally believe virginity is and just go with it. Dont worry what other people are thinking, just be who you are.

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