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Sorry Guys! It's still the offenses fault


Mr. Nostril

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I do agree that our defense is playing quite poorly when compared to last year's version. I fully expect the defense to be vastly improved once Griffin and Taylor return, and once Greg Williams ends his Walt Harris lovefest and inserts Carlos Rogers as the starter.

Another thing, I haven't noticed Chris Clemons the last few weeks, has he just been ineffective, or is he not playing much?

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I wanted a more agressive series there too, SRBfan. Personally, I wanted him to roll Brunell out and give him a couple quick underneath options, and if they were covered, to simply have Brunell eat the ball and take the 1 or 2 yard loss. That way you keep the clock running at worst, and give yourself the option of your VERY hot QB making yet another key play at best. A play that would in all likelihood had ended the game.

Why Gibbs didn't attack more in that situation is something I'll never know. He's made a career out of being conservating in similar situations. More often than not, it's worked. Here it didn't. But I DO know enough to realize what I might think in that circumstance is seen from the safety of my couch, not the crucible Gibbs was standing it. :)

But the larger point was ... it should never, EVER have come down to one or two plays in this game. The ONLY reason it was as close as it was, in my view, is because we allowed a guy barely ready to play in the NFL, and leaning on no running game to protect him, to get comfortable in the pocket. We simply never forced him to make quick decisions, the way you DO with a young QB, to force mistakes. And he was further allowed a comfort zone by our inability to hit him even AFTER he'd released the ball, or even to throw out of rhythm very much.

This one should never have come down to officials' calls or playcalling. To me, our inability to mount any legitimate pressure was the story--the difference between a nailbiter to parse the next day, as we're having to do here, and a fairly easy win.

What if anything we can do about this problem is going to be the story of the rest of the 2005 season.

thats exactly how i saw it ,no pressure on qb allowed to get comfortable and pick our d apart our o gave the d the lead twice in the 4th and they managed to blow it,whoever points top the o is sniffing glue:helmet:
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thats exactly how i saw it ,no pressure on qb allowed to get comfortable and pick our d apart our o gave the d the lead twice in the 4th and they managed to blow it,whoever points top the o is sniffing glue:helmet:

I've heard sniffing glue leads to a rampant loss of one's ability to properly punctuate a sentence...

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sorry, it is on the defense...Once the offense got the lead it is on the defense to close it out. To give up a 30+ yard touchdown to a rookie QB with the game on the line is horrible! However, we did a terrible job running out the clock after we stopped them the first time on 4th and goal. So when you think about it...it really is a team lose.

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No way you blame an offense that puts up 35 points on the number one defense for the loss. You must be joking. You should be pointing the blame at our defense for letting a rookie (basically) put up 36 points. Furthermore, you should blame the D for letting this same young QB march down the field to score the game clinching TD.

The fact that you people cannot see that the D dropped the balll is outrageous.

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the way I see it. Not turning the ball over is part of the foundation for a good offense. You can build off that, but the first thing is you can't turn it over. You can't have a good offense if you turn the ball over frequently.

What the Redskins have done is developed aspects of a very good offense without getting the foundation. The result - The Redskins have a very impressive bad offense that loses games for them.

You're missing the point, brother. The premise of the thread was that losing this game was the offense's fault.

The offense scored 28.

Special teams contributed 7 more.

That should have been MORE than enough in this game.

With even a middling pass rush against Baby Simms, this game isn't even close. Even with the points against off our turnovers, it should have been a 14-20 point win.

Does the offense still turn in over too much? Yes.

Was that in any realistic way the story of THIS game.

Nope.

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You're missing the point, brother. The premise of the thread was that losing this game was the offense's fault.

The offense scored 28.

Special teams contributed 7 more.

That should have been MORE than enough in this game.

With even a middling pass rush against Baby Simms, this game isn't even close. Even with the points against off our turnovers, it should have been a 14-20 point win.

Does the offense still turn in over too much? Yes.

Was that in any realistic way the story of THIS game.

Nope.

Considering the fact that the 7 of the offenses point came off a 7 yard drive, I don't think it's unrealistic to say that the offense contriubuted 21, and the defense contriubuted 7.

I'm going to reiterate that I've never let the defense off the hook, we need to find a way to get a pass rush. The fact is, it's demonstratable that we would be 8-1 if we weren't turning the ball over 3 times per game. If we got a pass rush, but kept up the turnovers, there's a definite shot of us still losing these games.

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I think I'm in the minority here after reading a lot of the posts either blaming the Offense or the Defense.

I am drinking "The Gibbs Kool-aid"...throughout his press conference Coach Gibbs kept saying "we" or "our guys"...he was making this loss a team loss...not hanging it all on anyone aspect of the team. I watched ESPNEWS' Monday Morning QB, and Mike Ditka and Eric Allen both said that this is why Coach Gibbs is a great coach...he is not dividing.

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Need somebody to help me with some stats. 1.Brunnell's record as a starting quarterback with Washington? 2. Brunnell's record his last 2 yrs at Jacksonville? 3. How many passes has he completed over 15yds in the air (excluded the 2 luck hail marrys in Dallas) 4. How many turnovers does he have??? I still think he is, at this point of his career, at most a damn good backup. P Ramsey has been screwed by the Redskins since he got there. He has never been put in long enough to get comfortable. He took a beating for them when Spurrier was there, He supported M Brunell and J Gibbs when they came. I love J Gibbs and the Redskins but I thank they have treated the guy, that has the most loyalty and professionalism of ANY REDSKIN I have known, with no respect whatsoever.

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Turnover hurt but didn't we come back to take the lead AFTER the turnovers? Yes we did. Twice. What happened then? How many field goals did Tampa kick? How many times were they forced to punt in the second half?

It doesn't matter that we took the lead twice. What matters is that Tampa Bay was in the game because of our turnovers. We gave them an easy 7 by fumbling in our 20. We gave them the ball twice more leading to another 7 pts. Our D suffered because our O couldn't control the clock. When we put out a defensive unit that is without 2 of our biggest playmakers our offense must do everything possible to limit the time the D is on the field. Yes our D was dissapointing but the fact of the matter is that the O lost the game by giving the ball away and giving Tampa a chance.

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It doesn't matter that we took the lead twice. What matters is that Tampa Bay was in the game because of our turnovers. We gave them an easy 7 by fumbling in our 20. We gave them the ball twice more leading to another 7 pts. Our D suffered because our O couldn't control the clock. When we put out a defensive unit that is without 2 of our biggest playmakers our offense must do everything possible to limit the time the D is on the field. Yes our D was dissapointing but the fact of the matter is that the O lost the game by giving the ball away and giving Tampa a chance.

Excuses. First off I refuse to fall for this nonsense that a turnover on your side of the field is an automatic 7 for the other team. That's nonsense. Did you watch the Giants game? They gave the Vikings the ball in the red zone twice and the vikings got no TDs. The redskins defense last year held teams to field goals all that time after turnovers and kept us in games. That is what the defense is paid to do and in the case of a top ten defense it is what they are EXPECTED to do, at least some of the time.

The redskins defense allowed a TD every time the Bucs came into the redzone. Every single friggin time. Not once did they hold the Bucs 20 something ranked offense to a field goal. That is absolutely unacceptable for any pro defense.

The defense did not come close to doing it's job. Had they stopped bucs ONCE, just once out of 5 times we win. ONE FRIGGIN FIELD GOAL and the 2 point debacle doesn't even matter. They made fools of themselves and gave up 5 touchdowns.

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Need somebody to help me with some stats. 1.Brunnell's record as a starting quarterback with Washington? 2. Brunnell's record his last 2 yrs at Jacksonville? 3. How many passes has he completed over 15yds in the air (excluded the 2 luck hail marrys in Dallas) 4. How many turnovers does he have??? I still think he is, at this point of his career, at most a damn good backup. P Ramsey has been screwed by the Redskins since he got there. He has never been put in long enough to get comfortable. He took a beating for them when Spurrier was there, He supported M Brunell and J Gibbs when they came. I love J Gibbs and the Redskins but I thank they have treated the guy, that has the most loyalty and professionalism of ANY REDSKIN I have known, with no respect whatsoever.

You sent me on a hunt

1. 7-10

2. 3-7

3. I have no idea where to look to find this info, but it doesn't seem like much.

4. This season: 9

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Excuses. First off I refuse to fall for this nonsense that a turnover on your side of the field is an automatic 7 for the other team. That's nonsense. Did you watch the Giants game? They gave the Vikings the ball in the red zone twice and the vikings got no TDs. The redskins defense last year held teams to field goals all that time after turnovers and kept us in games. That is what the defense is paid to do and in the case of a top ten defense it is what they are EXPECTED to do, at least some of the time.
You say that I'm making excuses for the defense, but to be fair, you're making excuses for the offense. I agree that it's nonsense to assume turnover=automatic 7. However, if the defense comes up with the big stop, the defense is going above and beyond the call of duty. If the defense doesn't come up with the stop, then the blame is on the offense.

Basically, the people who try to pin this game on the defense are saying that as long as the offense come up with the occasional big play and puts a few points on the board they aren't accountable for their mistakes. And a unless a defense is able to mop up for the offenses mistakes, then the defense is to blame. That's what I think is nonsense.

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You say that I'm making excuses for the defense, but to be fair, you're making excuses for the offense. I agree that it's nonsense to assume turnover=automatic 7. However, if the defense comes up with the big stop, the defense is going above and beyond the call of duty. If the defense doesn't come up with the stop, then the blame is on the offense.

Basically, the people who try to pin this game on the defense are saying that as long as the offense come up with the occasional big play and puts a few points on the board they aren't accountable for their mistakes. And a unless a defense is able to mop up for the offenses mistakes, then the defense is to blame. That's what I think is nonsense.

No one is giving the offense a pass. The turnovers were unacceptable. But they resulted in 14 points. Tampa scored 36 total. That means the defense gave up 22 points. Not to mention the offense stopped turning the ball over and were giving the Redskins a lead in the second half. But guess what? The defense let Tampa march right back down the field and score again. The Redskins defense claim they want to be the best. The best defense is not supposed to give up 22 points in the second half. Especially when (here's a flaw some of you are making) the offense and special teams combine for 35 total points.

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You say that I'm making excuses for the defense, but to be fair, you're making excuses for the offense. I agree that it's nonsense to assume turnover=automatic 7. However, if the defense comes up with the big stop, the defense is going above and beyond the call of duty. If the defense doesn't come up with the stop, then the blame is on the offense.

Basically, the people who try to pin this game on the defense are saying that as long as the offense come up with the occasional big play and puts a few points on the board they aren't accountable for their mistakes. And a unless a defense is able to mop up for the offenses mistakes, then the defense is to blame. That's what I think is nonsense.

Again the defense is EXPECTED to stop the other offense. There is nothing above and beyond about that statement. They are not only expected to do so only when they have 80 yards + to work with. You can't allow nothing but touchdowns in any game ever and not be blamed for the loss. 5 TDs allowed says it all. The defense flat out stunk.

Like I said before if ONE just ONE scoring drive was limited to a field goal we win. Asking the so called great defense to get one stop on a chump QB lead piss poor offense isn't asking much. But on Sunday that was more then the Redskins D was able to do.

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Some of the arguments here are very valid, and some completely ridiculous. On the ridiculous note, to even suggest that Brunell should be replaced by Ramsey as was the case in an earlier post is simply the most humorous thing I've read today. I knew the Brunell-bashing Ramsey lovers would come out again in full force, it was only a matter of time.

Listen, I was like most of you, yelling at my TV set. Ok I was yelling at Brunell. I was begging the guy to tell my why he'd cough up the ball when someone barely laid a hand on him. It frustrated me and left me scratching my head.

Reality check time. Brunell didn't lose that game for us. If you think Ramsey could have performed in any game we've played this season anywhere near the level of play Brunell has demonstrated, you are seriously smoking your lunch, and I'd recommend an immediate intervention. I respect Ramsey as a person too. I can't imagine how he could have been then, and continues to be such a class act and ultimate team player. He's just not good enough to start over Brunell this year. Do us a favor and end that discussion now. It has no merit factually speaking. It's a purely emotional reaction to the turnovers, so stop it.

The D was inept in every facet on Sunday. There's no way to contradict that.

In closing I'll put it to you like this. If Brunell fumbles 5 times and we turned the ball over those 5 times at the 10 yard line, I'd expect our defense to hold an opposing team to a field goal at least one time. Yes, with only 10 yards to gain for a TD. Our defense WAS capable of that at one time. So my point is, Brunell's turnovers hurt. Not going to deny that. They weren't however the "difference" some are making them out to be. I'm not excusing the turnovers, that's an issue that needs attention for sure. But the accountability for this loss rests solely with the defense. You really can't make an argument against that. Not one that holds any water anyway.

We got housed by a rookie QB because we really never got close to the guy. If you have the game on tape, go back and look at just how weak the pass rush was. I mean seriously the defensive line had no push whatsoever. How can that be? I know we've got injury issues, but these guys all made a professional team, and I have to believe that they have the physical talent to be more of a force. Maybe I'm trying to apply logic where logic doesn't apply, but it's tough to see big, strong guys get man-handled like that play after play, who move their feet as if they were in quicksand.

I understand the frustration of all, but if we're "keepin it real"......then assign the blame where it belongs, on the defense, and let's not start that whole "Brunell vs. Ramsey" thing again. That horse has been dead for quite a while now.

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You say that I'm making excuses for the defense, but to be fair, you're making excuses for the offense. I agree that it's nonsense to assume turnover=automatic 7. However, if the defense comes up with the big stop, the defense is going above and beyond the call of duty. If the defense doesn't come up with the stop, then the blame is on the offense.

Basically, the people who try to pin this game on the defense are saying that as long as the offense come up with the occasional big play and puts a few points on the board they aren't accountable for their mistakes. And a unless a defense is able to mop up for the offenses mistakes, then the defense is to blame. That's what I think is nonsense.

I hear what you're saying. There's definitely merit in the statement you make. In all fairness, both the offense and defense put their respective counterparts in comprimising situations on Sunday.

But, the defense was the larger of the two let-downs, and when the rubber hits the road.......you've got to be able to come up with ONE single stop when it matters, late in the game. The offense was nothing short of brilliant in the latter part of the game.

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