bulldog Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 when Chris Samuels crumpled to the ground I was as worried as everyone else we might have lost our best lineman and in a meaningless game. when I heard that Samuels had sprained his ankle during the week and already had it heavily taped before the game, my reaction was, what the hell was he doing out there at all? :mad: yeah, we all know that we don't have a #3 tackle that is battle tested and we are trying to get a gauge on where the qb's are by having each of them play with the starting offensive line. but all that takes a back seat for ONE game when your best player on the line is at risk and nursing an injury that, while not serious on its face, can linger for half the season because of the way linemen plant their feet and get themselves caught up inside. once again, poor decision. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins57 Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Yea Bulldog when that happened and my heart started pumping again that is my first thought also. WHY THE H*LL IS HE PLAYING???? Just plain stupid. We could have seen Coleman or Jones or someone againist a first string defense that normally would not have been in there and we could have got a good read on him. :gus: :gus: :shootinth Come on SS use your head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 I think you both are underestimating the effect of OL continuity. These guys have to get used to playing together. We all saw last year what happens when an OL hasn't played much together going into the season. What's more, atleast there is still time for injuries that occur now to heal before the season starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 While I can appreciate your anger Bulldog, my personal feeling is your going to have the injuries your going to have. As backwater as that sounds, I do truley believe that you are going to get a certain amount of injuries each year no matter how cautious you are. Some years you'll be fine, others your season will be crushed. The Skins have, unfortunately, been on the raw end of that the past few seasons, especially the 2000 campaign. I think we are due a few light years, and hopefully this is one. But whether Samuals injury happens now or week 1, it would have happened. Best to have him start recovering while the games are meaningless and we can potentially do something about the weak spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyskinsfan Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 It's very true and similar to the Colts situation under Mora, when he was here. He revamped the line and immediately had to get these guys to play together first, come h*ll or ho****er. There were numerous nicks and minor injuries, but come the middle of the season, Faulk was making history. Though the measure or timing may have been possible to change, they still had to get used to the different QB's and line assignments. Spurrier's got a unique problem and it won't go away until he has the exact 5 he'll start. He also needs to, without delay, get an OG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey T Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 I think BD's point is, CS should not have even been in the game. Granted injuries happen, but when one of your MAIN players on the OL is nursing an injury he should not have been in this meaningless game. I know CS is not a so called "seasoned" vet, but cut him some slack, ala Bruce and the rest of our premier players. With the ankle injury going in, IMHO Samuels should have been on the SL. Hey people, we only have 2 OLinemen to count on, let's not put them in harm's way 'til we start counting what is meaningful. That's W's & L's during the REGULAR season. I think we have a pretty good grip on what SS/ML can do. I would like to reflect what many on this board have said hope the people upstairs can fetch us a couple of journeymen (or better) OL to help Jon & Chris. Let's take this in stride and walk away winners;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Well. the number one person in charge of whether he plays or not is...Chris Samuels himself. Yep Apparently he sprained his ankle "sometime" during the week. K. Sometime is only slightly more vague a statement than sprained. How bad? Slight, mild, what? When? Monday? Nothing came out in the press aboout it. Did the injury during the week deserve an MRI? Or did the trainers and DR's go, "Ah. Little sprained. You'll be fine." Point is that with a sprain, Samuels is the best source of info the trainers and Dr's have. "This hurt?" This Hurt?" for all we know Chris told the team : "Hey, feels great!" We weren't at the practices like the coaches and medical staff, who could have been watching him very closely for any signs of favoring. He may not have shown any overt signs of distress. Chris could easily have felt fine. The tape? Want to be taped up to the point it takes a chainsaw to get it off, tell the trainers you had a sprain or a tight hamstring or something. Preventative measures. Yea yea. He still shouldn't have played. Easy for us to say, we aren't at the Park every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 If Chris goes down for the season, then we can pretty much forget about ANY cohesion on the O-line. Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 12, 2002 Author Share Posted August 12, 2002 no, the ultimate decision on who plays is Spurrier's call that's what judgment is all about. some players like Chris and Jon and LaVar and probably Champ as well are guys that will always say they are ready to play no matter what the injury, because they are competitors. it is up to the coaches to determine if the player SHOULD play and whether the circumstance, ie a preseason game and 2 or 3 series worth of work, is worth the associated risk in this case, there was nothing to learn. the unsettled positions are inside. and even if you accept the argument the coaches felt he needed to get work with the first team offense.........fine, then why not play him in Quarter 1 only? what was he doing out there with 4 minutes left in the half and Carolina already fielding their second team defenders? that is the real question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Yes , and Spurrier and the staff have only Samuels to rely on for how he is doing. That's what judgement is all about. Samuels judgement on the health of his ankle. That's all these guys have when it comes to a sprain. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it any less true. That's how it's "his" decision. Let me repeat what I said. Spurriers "ultimate" decision is based on several factors, one of which, I would assume, is the medical staff's opinion, who can only rely on Samuels for how he's doing. Point is, nobody, not you, me or anyone else here was there during the week. We have no idea what went into the decision making process. Could there have been a possibility that maybe, just maybe the guys getting paid to do the job saw no risk? Also, maybe for you or I or alot of other fans, there was nothing to learn, but the coaches may have felt otherwise. I never said what argument I did or didn't accept. Matter of fact, I haven't seen anything from the coaches about this.... yet. Not the point anyway. Point is we just don't know. That's part of being a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 I've said this in another thread but to me it doesn't make much sense to get upset over situations like that. You use the preseason to get your team ready for when it counts. Spurrier has to evaluate his talent at hand and he can't do that if he finds his QBs continually being knocked on their assets. Players can get injured every day and it doesn't necessarily take a game for it to happen. Stubblefield, anyone? So let's just be happy that it wasn't anymore severe and move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Murphaaay Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Originally posted by bulldog when I heard that Samuels had sprained his ankle during the week and already had it heavily taped before the game, my reaction was, what the hell was he doing out there at all? :mad: I was thinking the same damn thing. He should have been in for maybe one series at the most. Thankfully it wasn't as serious as it looked initially. Thank goodness for sprained ankles in these days of ACL and MCL tears.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesome Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Let's just be thankful it was only a sprain and he has a month to heal before the season starts. Maybe this will be a little wake up call for the coaching staff that we DESPERATELY need more O-line depth and there remain a few OG's out there we oculd sign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 12, 2002 Author Share Posted August 12, 2002 In my mind when a player rolls his ankle in practice and has to have a heavy tape job done just to get him out on the field for a preseason game, that is an indication that player should probably be held out, just as Champ was with the dislocated finger. It may be fun to win these preseason games and score points, but it doesn't mean anything other than as a confidence building exercise. In real terms that opener on September 8 is a different animal. Sitting Samuels for one week against Carolina would probably have allowed him to be a GO for the last two preseason games, and then he wouldn't have gone into the opener rusty and without being at practice for 3 weeks You have to consider not only today but what is going to happen tomorrow as well............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 PCS nailed it. The NFL is ALL about toughness. It glorifies it. Chris Samuels sprains an ankle in practice, works it around a couple times, and realizes it's a "hurt" and not an "injury." So he does what NFL football players do. He tapes it up and moves on. To do otherwise would be to fly in the face of everything a guy like Samuels has lived by since he was a kid. That's football, and it being the preseason or the Super Bowl isn't going to change it. My bet is Chris laughed off the suggestion he shouldn't play. Don't blame Spurrier or anyone else on this. It happens. I don't believe "blame" is necessary at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamaran Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Samuel's injury focuses and exacerbates the mismanagment of the front office, scouting dept., coaches and GM/ownership. They have dropped the ball regarding getting a cohesive offensive line. While Ramsey sits, many lineman taken this year could have been drafted. The same was the case last year; what the hell was Marty doing using a 4th rounder on Sage who likely will be cut in the next couple weeks? By most accounts, he would have been there long into the second day (if drafted at all). I like Sage, but it wasn't a fill the need pick. It was a I like this guy and I'll pick him. Even during free agency, the problems go on. With Samuels out, 4/5 of the starting interior line is gone. Period. I'd say at this point the team had better keep all four QBs. They look as though they'll need them. I'd put Samuels AND Jansen in a vacumm-sealed bag until the regular season opens. God knows none of the others have shown they can block much of anything except air. I agree, Bulldog. Samuels should have been held out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Yeah, those silly front-office types wasted all that time building a monster defense, a deep (surprise, surprise) WR corps, perhaps the best coaching staff in the league, the best attitude this franchise has had in a decade, and went about doing it all within the framework of a workable salary cap position. Clearly they just don't understand that the OL matters, too. How could they not "get it?" WE certainly do. Damn them for not being as smart as us. Damn them to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief skin Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Doesn't a trainer doing the tape job have an indication of how bad a sprain is? and if so then shouldn't he make someome aware that we are about to put one of our better players on the field and he is risking further injury on a meaningless game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Actually, it turns out that Samuels got hurt initially earlier in the game. He rolled it on a bull rush, but it was no big deal. Then, he rolled it bad on the bull rush he went down on. Make of it what you will. I haven't heard any of the thought process behind sending him back out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potato Sack Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Originally posted by MikeB While I can appreciate your anger Bulldog, my personal feeling is your going to have the injuries your going to have. As backwater as that sounds, I do truley believe that you are going to get a certain amount of injuries each year no matter how cautious you are. Some years you'll be fine, others your season will be crushed. The Skins have, unfortunately, been on the raw end of that the past few seasons, especially the 2000 campaign. I think we are due a few light years, and hopefully this is one. But whether Samuals injury happens now or week 1, it would have happened. Best to have him start recovering while the games are meaningless and we can potentially do something about the weak spot. I think you're missing his point. And I truly agree with him. That is, Samuels didn't need to be in there that long. If we need to "battle test" our OL, the other guys need their turn. So why keep Samuels in there longer than necessary. No...we DON'T need Samuels injured before the season begins. I say, bench him until the first game of the season. I really don't think he needs the reps out there right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsLegacy44 Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Originally posted by laurent Players can get injured every day and it doesn't necessarily take a game for it to happen. Sometimes all it takes for an injury, is a TOUCHDOWN CELEBRATION.......!!!! :gus: :gus: :gus: :gus: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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