A serious ? about Joe Wilson

[Kilmer17]

Does anyone have background on him? Specifically what would make him qualified to go to Africa to investigate the claims of Yellow Cake.

[The Sir]

Any relation to Preston Wilson, Owen Wilson, or Brian Wilson?

[visionary]

Mr. Wilson?

;-)

[@DCGoldPants]

Does anyone have background on him? Specifically what would make him qualified to go to Africa to investigate the claims of Yellow Cake.

All I know is that he was an Ambassador before....... and that his wife didn't have the authority to send him anywhere. He's also a partisan hack.

Here is a question...........

does anyone have background on whoever claimed that there was Yellow Cake, and maybe a link to their evidence?

[Kilmer17]

All I know is that he was an Ambassador before....... and that his wife didn't have the authority to send him anywhere. He's also a partisan hack.

Here is a question...........

does anyone have background on whoever claimed that there was Yellow Cake, and maybe a link to their evidence?

It was British Intelligence.

And to follow up, are you saying that his WIFE (Plame) sent him to Africa????

[@DCGoldPants]

I'm saying that people who claim his wife sent him, are most likely wrong.

She didn't have the authority to send him anywhere.

So, the British have accepted the responsibility for the bad intell?

[Kilmer17]

Actually, they still stand behind it.

I get your point now.

So who DID send him to Africa? And what him qualified to do so?

[wskin44]

Wilson had been an Ambassador to some nation(s) in Africa. He knew the key players in that country. Plame suggested that her husband may be able to find something out. Someone else at CIA approved the mission.

[@DCGoldPants]

That's a question for the CIA. I'm sure it wasn't just one person. Somebody had to sign off on it. If my office was run off of "suggestions" without people needed to approve. Nothing would ever get done.

Their argument will be "It shouldn't matter about Joe Wilson, the trip, or what he said afterwards. If he came back singing Death to America...... that doesn't mean you pay him back by outting a CIA Agent, related or unrelated to him."

You go after him and his qualifications alone. That should have been enough to discredit the situation.

[Kilmer17]

Thanks. I'd like to know who sent him though.

[@DCGoldPants]

So would I.

[Kilmer17]

Here's another thing I dont quite understand.

If the administration REALLY was trying to get back at Wilson, dont you think they could have come up with a better way than outing his wife, who apparently hadnt been a working agent for years.

I can think of lots of better ways to f@#k with someone.

[@DCGoldPants]

you'd hope so. But it appears they didn't think this one through.

When asked about the Wilson article, they decided to make it look like his wife sent him. But by doing that, they let people know who she was, and what she did. That's the big no-no.

Well, I should change that. They knew it was wrong by the way they worded everything to most reporters, and how the VP went on the Meet the Press and lied about his knowledge of Wilson. He knew who Wilson was, and said he didn't.

So, I guess the questions are.

Who was the final sign-off on the trip?

Who said they didn't know about Wilson, when they really did?

What did Novak know? and who did he learn it from?

Who is Miller covering for when she says she doesn't remember who wrote "Flame/Plame" in her notebook?

What damage was done from outting her? (we'll never know..... they'll most like say it wasn't much....and maybe that's true. But they'd never admit a huge hit)

Who did the British Intell? Why didn't we double check something huge like that?

[wskin44]

dont you think they could have come up with a better way than outing his wife, who apparently hadnt been a working agent for years.

My understanding is that it is a misconception that she wasn't a working agent. She was a working agent in the sense that her cover was still essential to her mission. She had apparently spent years establishing her cover and building a network of overseas contacts that she used in her efforts to find WMD. Her cover is now blown and I'm sure that another controller is trying to salvage her network.

Just because she was working as a controller in Langley, rather than overseas, doesn't mean that her cover wasn't critical.

[Kilmer17]

Purely as a revenge factor, this seems like a stupid way to get back at Wilson.

I just dont see what outting her accomplishes.

[wskin44]

Well here's another stupid thing: Wilson had to consider that he was risking his wife's cover when he wrote his article. He probably considered it a small risk because who would think that the Administration would out their own agent? But he was speaking out against his wife's employers, so that put his wife at risk. I wonder what discussions he and his wife had before publishing the article? I'm sure that they were shocked when her name showed up and I'm sure that part of his anger is tied up with his own feelings of guilt. After all, his article did nothing to stop the invasion.

[Kilmer17]

good point

[Guest Gichin13]

It was British Intelligence.

And to follow up, are you saying that his WIFE (Plame) sent him to Africa????

My recall was that it came from Italian intelligence ... and that the Italians discounted the source virtually immediately.

As far as Wilson's background, he had performed diplomatic work under both Republican and Democratic administrations. He had extensive experience in both Iraq and Nigeria. He had been praised quite highly by Bush I for his work during his administration, so at least coming into it, he was not viewed as a "partisan hack". Not saying he is or not, but he certainly was not viewed that way before he came out disagreeing with the administration ... and they viewed him as qualified for this job.

[Art Monk Fan]

There were independent reports from British, French and Italian Intelligence regarding Iraq seeking yellow cake from Niger. In addition there was independent intell on Niger that they were shopping their yellow cake around, including Iran, Iraq & North Korea.

The Italian intell was based on the forged documents. The British and French intell were based on other sources, but neither has indicated what at this point. A recent investigation of British intell in the build up to the war found that the yellow cake intell they have is the best piece of information they'd gathered.

The Senate has obtained a copy of Plame's internal CIA memo suggesting and arguing for her husband to go on the trip. He had worked in the Iraqi consulate during the first Gulf War and had sheltered people from Saddam. He also personally knew the Nigerian Prime Minister and the former head of mining for Niger from his stints as an ambassador.

The digging being done by the reporters when they talked to Libby and Rove was specifically into who sent him, because Wilson was insinuating at the time that Cheney was behind it -- he wasn't. Wilson continued to deny his wife's invovlment in the decision until the memo was uncovered.

He also left out of his report the fact that the Nigerians told him that Iraq had approached them about "strengthening trade" between them -- Niger doesn't export much except uranium.

Wilson has been caught in several lies and was obviously grinding a political axe.

[Art Monk Fan]

My recall was that it came from Italian intelligence ... and that the Italians discounted the source virtually immediately.

The forged documents came from Itallian intell, the British intell is separate, as is the French.

Wilson had claimed that the forged documents proved to him that there was nothing going on in Niger, except the CIA didn't even receive the forgeries until 8 months after Wilson's trip. Wison has since said that he had "misspoken" on the matter.

There has been some speculation that the very bad, very obvious forgeries were counter-intelligence attempting to shift attention away from any Nigerian-Iraqi connection.

[Larry]

All I know is that he was an Ambassador before....... and that his wife didn't have the authority to send him anywhere. He's also a partisan hack.

He was our formar ambasador to Niger, for, I believe, over a decade. He was supposedly well liked by their government, and still had contacts with them.

He became "a partisan hack" when he called Bush a liar. (And backed it up.)

Here is a question...........

does anyone have background on whoever claimed that there was Yellow Cake, and maybe a link to their evidence?

Somehow I doubt that anybody has access to all of the yellow cake evidence (and permission to post it).

It's been widely reported that at least part of the evidence was a forged receipt for the yellow cake, that "we" got from Ahmed Chalabi. (Long-time Cheney employee who the White House put in charge of generating intell on Iraq that the CIA and Pentagon weren't willing to stand behind, and who we tried to appoint in charge of Iraq after we conquered it.)

I thought everybody (except Fox viewers) knew that chronology:

• Bush doesn't like intell from CIA and Pentagon
  
• Sets up a special intel office under Chalabi. (12-year Cheney employee. Convicted embezler. Hasn't set foot in mid-east for (something like) 20 years, due to death sentance.)
  
• Chalabi produces receipt showing sale of several tons of yellowcake to Iraq.
  
• CIA examines claims. Concludes that they don't consider Chalabi to be a reliable source, and the document's forged.
  
• Congress wants matter investigated. Sends Wilson to talk to Nigerians.
  
• Wilson says no evidence of any sale. Says it's almost impossible for the amount claimed to be missing. (Amount claimed is a sizeable chunk of Niger's annual production.) Says his sources would know if that much was missing. (Wilson doesn't say anything about the receipt, because he wasn't told about it.)
  
• Bush wants to use yellowcake claim in SOTU. CIA says they won't support that claim, and in fact have dis-proved parts of it.
  
• Bush decides to use "Brittish intel has evidence that . . . ". (Britts have the same receipt we do, along with, no doubt some other information.) (I haven't seen any reports of where Britts got receipt. From CIA? From Chalabi? From some guy who sold the same fake document to both the US and Britts?)
  
• After SOTU, Wilson goes public with "Hey! I checked that stuff out, and it didn't happen!" Reports come out that CIA said documents were forged.
  
• Tennant (who said the sale didn't happen) gets blamed for bad intel, fired.
  
• Wilson (who said the sale didn't happen) gets smeared. Wife outed.
  
• Chalabi (who provided faked document and false claims) gets appointed in charge of a country.
  
• After being in charge of Iraq for a while, Chalabi publicly asks US military to leave "his" country.
  
• US discovers that Chalabi is an embezler, removes him from power.
  
• US appoints Alawi, the guy the CIA wanted in charge, in charge of Iraq.
  

[Larry]

If the administration REALLY was trying to get back at Wilson, dont you think they could have come up with a better way than outing his wife, who apparently hadnt been a working agent for years.

At the time, I wondered the same thing.

In fact, the whole "his wife is CIA" seemed, to me, to make his claim seem more credable.

But I think the intent of the smear was "Don't pay attention to him, his wife's the brains in the family, and he only got sent to make his wife happy."

[visionary]

I think

Alawi was the choice of the UN representatives, not the US...but uh whatever.

[Art Monk Fan]

He was our formar ambasador to Niger, for, I believe, over a decade. He was supposedly well liked by their government, and still had contacts with them.

No he wasn't. Wilson served as U.S. ambassador to Gabon and São Tomé and Príncipe under President George H. W. Bush and helped direct Africa policy for the National Security Council under President Bill Clinton. In addition, he worked under another embassador in Baghdad during the first Gulf War and apparently sheltered 100 other Americans from Saddam in the consulate.

He never served as ambassador to Niger, and was only an amabassador for G. W. H. Bush, who had one term, so it couldn't have been "over a decade."

BTW, he was such a great ambassador, here are the two vital postings he received:

The Gabonese Republic or Gabon, is a nation of west central Africa. It borders on Equatorial Guinea, Cameroon, Republic of the Congo and the Gulf of Guinea.

The Democratic Republic of São Tomé and Príncipe is a tiny two-island nation in the Gulf of Guinea.

[Art Monk Fan]

At the time, I wondered the same thing.

In fact, the whole "his wife is CIA" seemed, to me, to make his claim seem more credable.

But I think the intent of the smear was "Don't pay attention to him, his wife's the brains in the family, and he only got sent to make his wife happy."

Actually, the search for "who sent him" came about because Wilson was insinuating that Cheney had been behind it. WIlson was making the case that the evil Neo-Cons were seddning out hunting parties looking for evidence and discounting any intell they disliked. This was one of the many lies in which Wilson has been caught.