Why are we racist if we....

[H-O-G]

Chomerics

If there is a fortune 100 company that has no minority's including black then someone needs to report them. They would be forced to hire more minority's or they will face a fine. I have worked for 3 different company's all major financial institutions and all had a quota of minority's that they had to hire.

Once again though I do believe it is necessary as there are ignorant people in the world.

Good Post, I agree with you a lot on this....

[ccsl2]

Ok, have you ever sat down and thought about this for a second...

African American's have their own "black only" station (BET), they have "Black only" colleges/football. "black" novels...etc

What if someone of the white race opened a "White only" college with a "white only football team", people would be outraged and consider it racist. Why is our society so currupt?

~I thought this would be an interesting discussion

First of all there are no "Black Only" schools...Lets get that straight...I went to a HBCU and there were white kids that went there too..BET is owned by Viacom, which also owns MTV, VH-1, etc. So this black only thing is nonsense

[ccsl2]

Ok I've had it with this nonsense. There are few topics that annoy me as much as this white victim garbage. Show me where a large number of whites are being screwed out of a chance to make it in life because people exactly the same as them with slightly different skin color are being given the chance/job ahead of them? I hear a lot of tall tales and little evidence. If a kid get denied from one school he goes to another, not different getting denied for a black kid, as it is getting denied for a rich kid. In life you get beat by people less qualified ALL THE TIME, just look at the government for a fine example of this.

But this constant notion that whites are victims is nonense. If you were to compare whites and non-whites in this nation in terms of wealth, schooling, and political representation this idiotic victim argument goes right out the window. But maybe that is the reality behind this, so long as everything benefits whites more so or equally everything is fine, right? If only all forms of disadvantage were dealt with as energetically.

I agree totally...well said

[NavyDave]

Can we killl this thread??

You have me agreeing with Destino and others throughout this thread and I'm running out of handsoap to get rid of that icky feeling.

And I dont really want to go there.

[Destino]

Can we killl this thread??

You have me agreeing with Destino and others throughout this thread and I'm running out of handsoap to get rid of that icky feeling.

And I dont really want to go there.

You should agree with me. I am right at least 2% of the time, so about twice as often as you are.

[PokerPacker]

instead of grouping all whites together, why don't you seperate us into our races. you think the irish could just "glide" through when we arrived? no, we worked on the railroads all day long. we were discriminated against. should i get special treatment when looking for a job, because my ancestors may have been discriminated against in the past? many people have experience discrimination, maybe if we tried to make something of ourselves, we wouldn't have to ask for handouts. i don't care where you come from, or what you look like, if you are qualified for the job, then you are qualified for the job. i agree many black people had it bad in the past, but the key to ending racism, is to treat everyone equally. play the cards your dealt. yes, sometimes others may have a better hand than you, but it doesn't mean you can't do anything with it.

[DjTj]

instead of grouping all whites together, why don't you seperate us into our races. you think the irish could just "glide" through when we arrived? no, we worked on the railroads all day long. we were discriminated against. should i get special treatment when looking for a job, because my ancestors may have been discriminated against in the past? many people have experience discrimination, maybe if we tried to make something of ourselves, we wouldn't have to ask for handouts. i don't care where you come from, or what you look like, if you are qualified for the job, then you are qualified for the job. i agree many black people had it bad in the past, but the key to ending racism, is to treat everyone equally. play the cards your dealt. yes, sometimes others may have a better hand than you, but it doesn't mean you can't do anything with it.

Did the government create laws treating the Irish as property?

Did the government create laws forcing the Irish to live, work, and go to school separately from others?

If not, then the government doesn't owe the Irish anything.

Do Irish-Americans today still show lower levels of income and higher rates of poverty?

Are there a disproportionately fewer number of Irish-Americans in positions of leadership in government and in the corporate world?

If not, then even if the government owes the Irish something, they have already been compensated.

It's not about past discrimination, it's about what the government actually did. In that respect, the situation of Blacks in this country is fundamentally different from that of any other group.

[PokerPacker]

i'm not asking for help, i'm asking for people to quit whining about how bad they have it. i'm for employing those most fit for a job, i'm against hiring to fit quotas. not all africans in our country have enslaved ancestors, not all whites have slave-owning ancestors. people need to learn how to make money for themselves.

i'm not trying to be racist with my next comment, it is purly an observation: at my school, there is a high proportion of black kids who just don't give a f*ck about getting an education. yes, there are smart black kids, but they are greatly outweighed by the number of "gangta's" in the school. if they can't get their act together, do they deserve a decent job over someone who actually tried? (FCPS is one of the better schooling systems in the country, so don't blame it on the school)

why is it that asians that come to this country with little or no money, and end up being so successful? because they work hard. they aren't out looking for handouts, they get an education, and make money.

[Fergasun]

Yeah... just look at how we treated all those Japanese Americans during WWII... they were put into internment camps. And if you see this chart on incomes by races, you'll see that because of this unfair treatment and racism by the United States government, people of Japanese descent in this country have a lower income now.

Wait, what's that you say? There are no charts that show Americans of Japanese descent have been hurt by their internment 60 years ago? But.. by the logic of this thread, I would expect a traceable adverse effect of poverty passed down from generation to generation.

Interesting, went diving through the archives and I found this article and thread.

[PokerPacker]

Yeah... just look at how we treated all those Japanese Americans during WWII... they were put into internment camps. And if you see this chart on incomes by races, you'll see that because of this unfair treatment and racism by the United States government, people of Japanese descent in this country have a lower income now.

Wait, what's that you say? There are no charts that show Americans of Japanese descent have been hurt by their internment 60 years ago? But.. by the logic of this thread, I would expect a traceable adverse effect of poverty passed down from generation to generation.

Interesting, went diving through the archives and I found this article and thread.

a voice of reason.

[Crazyhorse1]

I'm too tired to check the dictionary on this one but I'm pretty sure a person is a racist if he thinks his race is superior to other races. In other words, all of you clowns are racists.

I'm not sure I'm a racist because I'm white and pretty sure my own race is inferior, at least morally, to all others.

Actually, I'm knowledgable enough about DNA and biology and such to know there is such a thing as race, that there are no race specific genes or sets of genes, or human characteristics that are unique to any group of people.

I don't mean to be insulting but anyone at all who disagrees with the above statement ought to do some serious reading.

In fact, race is a product of a mindset or classification by predjudice in that it involves the arbitrary grouping of random characteristics and the establishment of a category by taking that random or predjudical grouping seriously.

In other words, the belief in racism is, by my dynamic and enlightened definition, in spite of the fact I'm tired, is a racist.

That means you, maybe me. I don't know.

What I do know is that anyone who in any way looks like George Bush is probably inferior.

[RDSKNfaithfull]

Just so you know BET is owned by MTV now and is run by Whitey:)

[Crazyhorse1]

I'm too tired to check the dictionary on this one but I'm pretty sure a person is a racist if he thinks his race is superior to other races. In other words, all of you clowns are racists.

I'm not sure I'm a racist because I'm white and pretty sure my own race is inferior, at least morally, to all others.

Actually, I'm knowledgable enough about DNA and biology and such to know there is such a thing as race, that there are no race specific genes or sets of genes, or human characteristics that are unique to any group of people.

I don't mean to be insulting but anyone at all who disagrees with the above statement ought to do some serious reading.

In fact, race is a product of a mindset or classification by predjudice in that it involves the arbitrary grouping of random characteristics and the establishment of a category by taking that random or predjudical grouping seriously.

In other words, the belief in racism is, by my dynamic and enlightened definition, in spite of the fact I'm tired, is a racist.

That means you, maybe me. I don't know.

What I do know is that anyone who in any way looks like George Bush is probably inferior.

[PokerPacker]

i don't think my race is superior, i just think that people should get off their lazy asses and get a job. can't get a job? maybe they should have payed a little more attention in school instead smoking pot. (previous comment is about specific people i know, not a generalization of a race) when i start paying taxes, i don't want to be supporting these bums

[PokerPacker]

at least its not

[Bonez3]

I'm too tired to check the dictionary on this one but I'm pretty sure a person is a racist if he thinks his race is superior to other races. In other words, all of you clowns are racists.

I'm not sure I'm a racist because I'm white and pretty sure my own race is inferior, at least morally, to all others.

Actually, I'm knowledgable enough about DNA and biology and such to know there is such a thing as race, that there are no race specific genes or sets of genes, or human characteristics that are unique to any group of people.

I don't mean to be insulting but anyone at all who disagrees with the above statement ought to do some serious reading.

In fact, race is a product of a mindset or classification by predjudice in that it involves the arbitrary grouping of random characteristics and the establishment of a category by taking that random or predjudical grouping seriously.

In other words, the belief in racism is, by my dynamic and enlightened definition, in spite of the fact I'm tired, is a racist.

That means you, maybe me. I don't know.

What I do know is that anyone who in any way looks like George Bush is probably inferior.

I really don't want to write any more in this thread, but...

Crazy- I don't truly understand if you are saying there is or isn't race. But, I am sure that when you described your opinion of race, you actually described ETHNICITY-different from race. I implore you to read on the two. Race and ethnicity are clearly defined sociologic terms. I ask where you get your sources from?

Also- if you think there are no race specific genes, that is misleading. There are definetely race specific expressed genes, which basically is the same thing.

Finally, the term racist to apply so loosely is ignorant. I felt you directed that statement at me as well as others. I can assure you, without all your rambling definitions, I AM NOT A RACIST. I have myself not once spoken on any race being better than another, nor have I even come close to infering such.

[chomerics]

Chomerics

If there is a fortune 100 company that has no minority's including black then someone needs to report them. They would be forced to hire more minority's or they will face a fine. I have worked for 3 different company's all major financial institutions and all had a quota of minority's that they had to hire.

I never said they had no minorities, in fact, I stated that they HAD minorities in Asians and Indian employees. The company I worked for was the daughter company of Parker Hannifin, a Fortune 100 company, and out of the 400 employees, not a single person was black. This was in the year 2000, and I can not attest to it now, as the person responsible for hiring people is now retired.

Again, you need to differentiate between black people and other minorities. You can get around affirmitive action by hiring other minorities, not just black people. It is done, and I can attest that I worked at a company who did just that.

[chomerics]

i'm not asking for help, i'm asking for people to quit whining about how bad they have it.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but wasn't it YOU who was complaining because there were no "white" scholarships?

[Redskins Diehard]

Did the government create laws treating the Irish as property?

Did the government create laws forcing the Irish to live, work, and go to school separately from others?

If not, then the government doesn't owe the Irish anything.

Do Irish-Americans today still show lower levels of income and higher rates of poverty?

Are there a disproportionately fewer number of Irish-Americans in positions of leadership in government and in the corporate world?

If not, then even if the government owes the Irish something, they have already been compensated.

It's not about past discrimination, it's about what the government actually did. In that respect, the situation of Blacks in this country is fundamentally different from that of any other group.

Maybe the Irish didn't sit around waiting for the government to give them what the government "owed" them.

If you suspect that what the government did 150 years ago is the reason for whatever "plight" you are facing today then I truly feel sorry for you.

I can tell you this, none of my ancestors were here prior to the turn of the century. Do I owe anything to anyone for what happened in the formation of this country. Absolutely not.

Since money and priviledge were not prevalent in my family I did what my father did...I gave the government 5 years of my life in exchange for 4 years of education. What group of people is denied this same type of opportunity? If I were enjoying the easy life on my plantation is the South that was built on the sweat of slave labor than I probably would feel guilty. But I'm not, so I don't.

What am I going to owe the Latino community that is currently working for lets just say less than equitable pay and benefits at this time in our history?

[PokerPacker]

Forgive me if I am wrong, but wasn't it YOU who was complaining because there were no "white" scholarships?

its the principle of the matter, not the substance itself.

[Crazyhorse1]

I really don't want to write any more in this thread, but...

Crazy- I don't truly understand if you are saying there is or isn't race. But, I am sure that when you described your opinion of race, you actually described ETHNICITY-different from race. I implore you to read on the two. Race and ethnicity are clearly defined sociologic terms. I ask where you get your sources from?

Also- if you think there are no race specific genes, that is misleading. There are definetely race specific expressed genes, which basically is the same thing.

Finally, the term racist to apply so loosely is ignorant. I felt you directed that statement at me as well as others. I can assure you, without all your rambling definitions, I AM NOT A RACIST. I have myself not once spoken on any race being better than another, nor have I even come close to infering such.

Ok, Ok. So, my rift was primarily comic. Here's the truth.

I have read extensively in the field. There is no such thing as race. Race is a mental construct with no genetic basis. Read Man's Most Dangerous Myth. All dogs are wolves; differently bred dogs are breeds. It would be helpful to envision races as breeds. All breeds can be bred back to what we call wolves or into any other breed. Here's a truth: two supposed people of any supposed race would, in time, and assuming migration, evolve all supposed races. That is genetic fact. Stated another way, if the Nazis had wiped out all other races they would have eventually have had to do it again.

Most people think of different races as what we know to be as different species of man, such as Java man, etc. Those other species have died out. There is only one species of man still extant and that has evolved different characteristics specific to regional conditions and will continue to evolve for the same reason, not because of what we can isolate as race specific genes, which don't exist.

In relation to your other claims: it is entirely natural for people to develop group loyally to any group one feels one belongs, which is probably an indication that it was once or still is a characteristic necessary for survival in a dangerous world.

It is probably even healthy to gain a sense of self esteem by belonging to that group, especially in childhood. A certain amount of racism or group identification (which is what fandom is all about) then is probably ok; but, by adulthood, the individual should be aware that his sense of self esteem derived from this is a fantasy from childhood whose negative aspects should be put away.

Stereotyping members of other races as lazy or pot smoking or stupid is the self-aggrandizement of childhood, just as seriously believing that Cowboys are bad people would be for adult Redskins fans.

So, to clarify, I do believe that almost everyone is, at least in part, a racist, willingly or not. Very few of us have completely grown up.

I feel that is a legitimate belief and my view is as valid as anyone else's. I have not shot an arrow at anyone in particular, including you. I stand by my comment that there is no such thing as race. I am not talking about ethnicity, which I do believe exists.

[Destino]

i don't think my race is superior, i just think that people should get off their lazy asses and get a job. can't get a job? maybe they should have payed a little more attention in school instead smoking pot. (previous comment is about specific people i know, not a generalization of a race) when i start paying taxes, i don't want to be supporting these bums

All this bravado at 16? I hope that's inaccurate because it would mean you aren't even old enough to have taken a history course that doesn't teach easter bunny fairy tales yet.

[Destino]

instead of grouping all whites together, why don't you seperate us into our races. you think the irish could just "glide" through when we arrived? no, we worked on the railroads all day long. we were discriminated against. should i get special treatment when looking for a job, because my ancestors may have been discriminated against in the past? many people have experience discrimination, maybe if we tried to make something of ourselves, we wouldn't have to ask for handouts. i don't care where you come from, or what you look like, if you are qualified for the job, then you are qualified for the job. i agree many black people had it bad in the past, but the key to ending racism, is to treat everyone equally. play the cards your dealt. yes, sometimes others may have a better hand than you, but it doesn't mean you can't do anything with it.

Why isn't this guy running the United Nations? I mean how could we all have missed such an obvious solution. Let's just go into South Africa and tell the people "hey I know it was bad but just play the hand you were dealt" I'm sure they'll all forget all about their history and culture and take up the banner of "just live in the now!"

Brilliant. I'm sure it will work.

[jrockster21]

Ok, Ok. So, my rift was primarily comic. Here's the truth.

I have read extensively in the field. There is no such thing as race. Race is a mental construct with no genetic basis. Read Man's Most Dangerous Myth. All dogs are wolves; differently bred dogs are breeds. It would be helpful to envision races as breeds. All breeds can be bred back to what we call wolves or into any other breed. Here's a truth: two supposed people of any supposed race would, in time, and assuming migration, evolve all supposed races. That is genetic fact. Stated another way, if the Nazis had wiped out all other races they would have eventually have had to do it again.

Most people think of different races as what we know to be as different species of man, such as Java man, etc. Those other species have died out. There is only one species of man still extant and that has evolved different characteristics specific to regional conditions and will continue to evolve for the same reason, not because of what we can isolate as race specific genes, which don't exist.

In relation to your other claims: it is entirely natural for people to develop group loyally to any group one feels one belongs, which is probably an indication that it was once or still is a characteristic necessary for survival in a dangerous world.

It is probably even healthy to gain a sense of self esteem by belonging to that group, especially in childhood. A certain amount of racism or group identification (which is what fandom is all about) then is probably ok; but, by adulthood, the individual should be aware that his sense of self esteem derived from this is a fantasy from childhood whose negative aspects should be put away.

Stereotyping members of other races as lazy or pot smoking or stupid is the self-aggrandizement of childhood, just as seriously believing that Cowboys are bad people would be for adult Redskins fans.

So, to clarify, I do believe that almost everyone is, at least in part, a racist, willingly or not. Very few of us have completely grown up.

I feel that is a legitimate belief and my view is as valid as anyone else's. I have not shot an arrow at anyone in particular, including you. I stand by my comment that there is no such thing as race. I am not talking about ethnicity, which I do believe exists.

:doh:

race1 Audio pronunciation of "race" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rs)

n.

1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.

3. A genealogical line; a lineage.

4. Humans considered as a group.

5. Biology.

1. An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits. A race that has been given formal taxonomic recognition is known as a subspecies.

2. A breed or strain, as of domestic animals.

6. A distinguishing or characteristic quality, such as the flavor of a wine.

Notice, crazyhorse, definition number 5. There is indeed a biological definition of race. To say there is no such thing as races is complete, utter and total lunacy. :doh:

[JJredskins00]

Ok, have you ever sat down and thought about this for a second...

African American's have their own "black only" station (BET), they have "Black only" colleges/football. "black" novels...etc

What if someone of the white race opened a "White only" college with a "white only football team", people would be outraged and consider it racist. Why is our society so currupt?

~I thought this would be an interesting discussion

Amen to every point you listed here...I have thought and argued about this many times.