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Giants fan here.........


Eli The Future

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First off let me say that I'm not here to talk smack or make any predictions about this game, cause it will inevitably do is turn into some pi$$ing match that doesnt lead anywhere. I'm just here to debunk a couple of myths that Ive read browsing this forum in the last 2 days.

1. "Blitz Eli, put pressure on him, and we'll hold him down."

There hasnt been a QB in the NFL this season who has been MORE succesful against the blitz then Eli this season. Check out his splits on ESPN.com, he has a QB rating of 120.8 with 7 TD passes and just 1 INT against the blitz this season. That, along with his late game heroics, are his 2 biggest qualities as a QB right now. The Giants will invite you to blitz, early and often. Tiki Barber has done an outstanding job in blitz pickups this season and Eli has made some fast, excellent decisions with the football, identifying pre snap where the blitz is coming from and adjusting to it and making the hot read

2. "The Giants defense sucks, its ranked 31st against the pass this season."

Whenever I hear people quoting defensive or offensive rankings, which are based solely on yardage,I know I should read anything that comes out of their mouth with a grain of salt. Offenses and defenses are not judged on the yards they rack up or give up. They are judged by the amount of points they score and the amount of points they surrender. It's been like this since the days of leather helmets and will be like this 100 years from now. Way too many factors are involved to judge a unit on yardage and the numbers become skewed.Teams who get out to big leads, as the Giants have many times this season, are going to give up yardage simply because their defensive mindset changes and other teams are throwing the ball playing catchup. The Giants Offense leads the NFL in scoring and has done so at the close of each of the first 7 weeks of the season. The defense is giving up 22.8 ppg which is not great, but is middle of the pack. If you take out the pitiful abberation that was the Charger game, the Giants are giving up 17 ppg which would put our defense 8th in the NFL right now in that number, even lower then the Skins

I'll be there Sunday rooting for a Giant win and will continue to read this board for an outsider point of view. Congrats on your 4-2 start and lets hope for good health both ways on Sunday

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Good thread about the Giants. What impresses me is their ability to create turnovers. That is the scariest part of their defense. Conversely, it also clouds the offenses true offensive ability. Without the crutch of turnovers how many points do the Giants score and how many do they stop others from scoring. Still, they got the turnovers which means that the points count and the points taken away aren't added. It's what makes them dangerous. If we play smart and limit turnovers and aren't reffed too much I think this will be a good competitive game and we will win. If we get sloppy or reffed then the Giants will win.

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ok. about your D- your last 2 games have been squeekers, and one was a 3 point loss 16-13, and the other was a game where denver had a big lead late in the game, so i'm not sure how skewed the defensive stats are. if anything, the pass D stats would have come down to a more respectable #.

and as far as taking out the 'aberration' of the chargers game as far as giving up points?....nah. they may be the best team you have played so far, so why take them out? if so, dont boast about your great O- or i will ask you to take out the stats from those bad D's you ran up the score against.

btw- eli has 8 TD's and 1 INT in 3 games vs pass D's ranked 26th or lower. he has 4 TD's and 3 INT's in the other 3 games vs 2 middle of the pack pass D's and the #8 pass D.

skins are #4.

kinda makes you think he hasnt seen anyone good yet, doesnt it?

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First off let me say that I'm not here to talk smack or make any predictions about this game, cause it will inevitably do is turn into some pi$$ing match that doesnt lead anywhere. I'm just here to debunk a couple of myths that Ive read browsing this forum in the last 2 days.

1. "Blitz Eli, put pressure on him, and we'll hold him down."

There hasnt been a QB in the NFL this season who has been MORE succesful against the blitz then Eli this season. Check out his splits on ESPN.com, he has a QB rating of 120.8 with 7 TD passes and just 1 INT against the blitz this season. That, along with his late game heroics, are his 2 biggest qualities as a QB right now. The Giants will invite you to blitz, early and often. Tiki Barber has done an outstanding job in blitz pickups this season and Eli has made some fast, excellent decisions with the football, identifying pre snap where the blitz is coming from and adjusting to it and making the hot read

2. "The Giants defense sucks, its ranked 31st against the pass this season."

Whenever I hear people quoting defensive or offensive rankings, which are based solely on yardage,I know I should read anything that comes out of their mouth with a grain of salt. Offenses and defenses are not judged on the yards they rack up or give up. They are judged by the amount of points they score and the amount of points they surrender. It's been like this since the days of leather helmets and will be like this 100 years from now. Way too many factors are involved to judge a unit on yardage and the numbers become skewed.Teams who get out to big leads, as the Giants have many times this season, are going to give up yardage simply because their defensive mindset changes and other teams are throwing the ball playing catchup. The Giants Offense leads the NFL in scoring and has done so at the close of each of the first 7 weeks of the season. The defense is giving up 22.8 ppg which is not great, but is middle of the pack. If you take out the pitiful abberation that was the Charger game, the Giants are giving up 17 ppg which would put our defense 8th in the NFL right now in that number, even lower then the Skins

I'll be there Sunday rooting for a Giant win and will continue to read this board for an outsider point of view. Congrats on your 4-2 start and lets hope for good health both ways on Sunday

Good post...I agree with both your assessments. First off, the Skins (contrary to their reputation) have not been blitzing all that much this year. They blitzed Orton and Smith a lot, but have not blitzed the more capable QBs. That apparently will bode well for us this week.

Secondly, your D has done a tremendous job of creating turnovers. But even you'd have to admit, that some of that is out of their control. The offense has some say in whether they turn the ball over or not. The Skins have shown that they do turn it over some, however the hope is that they're getting better. The bottom line is, when push comes to shove, I'd rather have the D that can stop an offense whether it makes mistakes or not.

Good post and welcome to the board!

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ok. about your D- your last 2 games have been squeekers, and one was a 3 point loss 16-13, and the other was a game where denver had a big lead late in the game, so i'm not sure how skewed the defensive stats are. if anything, the pass D stats would have come down to a more respectable #.

and as far as taking out the 'aberration' of the chargers game as far as giving up points?....nah. they may be the best team you have played so far, so why take them out? if so, dont boast about your great O- or i will ask you to take out the stats from those bad D's you ran up the score against.

btw- eli has 8 TD's and 1 INT in 3 games vs pass D's ranked 26th or lower. he has 4 TD's and 3 INT's in the other 3 games vs 2 middle of the pack pass D's and the #8 pass D.

skins are #4.

kinda makes you think he hasnt seen anyone good yet, doesnt it?

Good counter Grego

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1. "Blitz Eli, put pressure on him, and we'll hold him down."

There hasnt been a QB in the NFL this season who has been MORE succesful against the blitz then Eli this season. Check out his splits on ESPN.com, he has a QB rating of 120.8 with 7 TD passes and just 1 INT against the blitz this season. That, along with his late game heroics, are his 2 biggest qualities as a QB right now. The Giants will invite you to blitz, early and often. Tiki Barber has done an outstanding job in blitz pickups this season and Eli has made some fast, excellent decisions with the football, identifying pre snap where the blitz is coming from and adjusting to it and making the hot read

Great post!

I have not watched many Giants games this season, but the impression I had is that Eli is indeed not rattled by the blitz much.

However, I also got an impression that Skins have not been blitzing nearly as much as they did last season. GW himself said that teams expect that now. We have been blitzing LBs and d-backs in some games, while in others it was mostly the front 4. Maybe this happened due to our CB injuries... but blitz seems to be just another weapon in our defensive repertoire, not the main feature of our defense. I have no idea what defensive strategy GW will come up with for this game. I am sure they studied hours of tape and will come up with the best strategy. Only time will tell what that strategy will be. However, I think us not blitzing that much is just as possible as blitzing early and often. Although, personally, I do think we will blitz. If that happens, Eli could still be ratteled because GW is very good at disguising his blitzes. Even experienced QBs have a hard time figuring out where it will be coming from. Just because Eli has been cool under pressure does not mean he will be able to. Different teams blitz in different ways, and I think we are up there as far as disguising blitzes goes. :2cents:

I am VERY excited about this game. I am so looking forward to seeing what our Defense can do against your Offense. VERY. :helmet:

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1) No serious football fan here underestimates Eli Manning. Nor does anyone at Redskins Park. Let's not waste too much time on this one.

2) The Washington offense has scored, in this order, this many offensive points over th past 6 games: 9, 14, 20, 21, 21, 52. Notice anything? We do. :)

The Washington defense has allowed, in this order, this many defensive points over the past 6 games: 7, 13, 17, 21, 21, 17 (ten of which were against backups in garbage time).

The 21 allowed in back-to-back weeks were against Denver and Kansas City (averaging 22 and 25 ppg, respectively), on the road, while missing our 2 starting cornerbacks. Don't know how familiar you are with G. Williams schemes, but they are HEAVILY reliant on physical, aggressive play from his corners, something he did not have the luxury of in those two games, and so played a far more conservative scheme.

If your team scores 21+ on this group WITH Springs, Harris and the entire starting secondary on the field at the same time for only the 2nd game all year (last week being the first), I'll tip my cap to 'em. But they're going to have to prove it.

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btw- eli has 8 TD's and 1 INT in 3 games vs pass D's ranked 26th or lower. he has 4 TD's and 3 INT's in the other 3 games vs 2 middle of the pack pass D's and the #8 pass D.

He, like any other QB in the NFL, is going to put up better numbers against teams with problems defensively then he will against stout teams. But in his early career he has shown some tremendous things against some very good defenses. It could be argued that last year his 2nd half against the Steelers was the best half any QB in the NFL had against Pittsburgh all of last year, and if not for a non call on a pass interference that led to an INT we win that game. The last 2 weeks against excellent defenses he's led us down the field in the final 2 minutes to either win the game or send it to OT

He's only made 13 NFL starts, 3 starts shy of the equivalent of 1 full season. In a league where most QBs don't see their best years until year 5 or 6, he still has a lot of room to grow and hes already good. That doesn't mean he isnt above the occasional clunker at this point in his development, but hes shown that even when he doesn't have such a hot start to a game, he can put it behind him and rebound for a strong finish.

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2. "The Giants defense sucks, its ranked 31st against the pass this season."

Whenever I hear people quoting defensive or offensive rankings, which are based solely on yardage,I know I should read anything that comes out of their mouth with a grain of salt. Offenses and defenses are not judged on the yards they rack up or give up. They are judged by the amount of points they score and the amount of points they surrender. It's been like this since the days of leather helmets and will be like this 100 years from now. Way too many factors are involved to judge a unit on yardage and the numbers become skewed.Teams who get out to big leads, as the Giants have many times this season, are going to give up yardage simply because their defensive mindset changes and other teams are throwing the ball playing catchup. The Giants Offense leads the NFL in scoring and has done so at the close of each of the first 7 weeks of the season. The defense is giving up 22.8 ppg which is not great, but is middle of the pack. If you take out the pitiful abberation that was the Charger game, the Giants are giving up 17 ppg which would put our defense 8th in the NFL right now in that number, even lower then the Skins

I'll be there Sunday rooting for a Giant win and will continue to read this board for an outsider point of view. Congrats on your 4-2 start and lets hope for good health both ways on Sunday

Here we go again with the Yards vs Points debate! :) It's been beaten to death, considering how our stats match up. To summarize:

- Getting Yards is important.

- Getting Points is important.

- Stopping opponents from getting Yards is important.

- Stopping opponents form getting Points is important.

Agree? :laugh:

Points is what matters in the end. Yards is what Offenses/Defenses are ranked based on. There is a reason for this. Yards mean good field position, unless STs mess up. Yards mean points, unless you turn the ball over or get those yards in garbage time. If your team allows too many yards it is not good. If you team allows too many points it's not good. Sure, it is better to allow many yards but not many points, instead of the other way around... but if you allow opponents to get yards, they will score more unless they turn the ball over. Do you really want to leave it up to that? The bottom line is, you do not want to allow too many yards AND points. If you allow other teams to get yards, that will eventually catch up with you. It will start turning into points. Hopefullt that will start happening this weekend :silly:

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First off let me say that I'm not here to talk smack or make any predictions about this game, cause it will inevitably do is turn into some pi$$ing match that doesnt lead anywhere. I'm just here to debunk a couple of myths that Ive read browsing this forum in the last 2 days.

1. "Blitz Eli, put pressure on him, and we'll hold him down."

There hasnt been a QB in the NFL this season who has been MORE succesful against the blitz then Eli this season. Check out his splits on ESPN.com, he has a QB rating of 120.8 with 7 TD passes and just 1 INT against the blitz this season. That, along with his late game heroics, are his 2 biggest qualities as a QB right now. The Giants will invite you to blitz, early and often. Tiki Barber has done an outstanding job in blitz pickups this season and Eli has made some fast, excellent decisions with the football, identifying pre snap where the blitz is coming from and adjusting to it and making the hot read

2. "The Giants defense sucks, its ranked 31st against the pass this season."

Whenever I hear people quoting defensive or offensive rankings, which are based solely on yardage,I know I should read anything that comes out of their mouth with a grain of salt. Offenses and defenses are not judged on the yards they rack up or give up. They are judged by the amount of points they score and the amount of points they surrender. It's been like this since the days of leather helmets and will be like this 100 years from now. Way too many factors are involved to judge a unit on yardage and the numbers become skewed.Teams who get out to big leads, as the Giants have many times this season, are going to give up yardage simply because their defensive mindset changes and other teams are throwing the ball playing catchup. The Giants Offense leads the NFL in scoring and has done so at the close of each of the first 7 weeks of the season. The defense is giving up 22.8 ppg which is not great, but is middle of the pack. If you take out the pitiful abberation that was the Charger game, the Giants are giving up 17 ppg which would put our defense 8th in the NFL right now in that number, even lower then the Skins

I'll be there Sunday rooting for a Giant win and will continue to read this board for an outsider point of view. Congrats on your 4-2 start and lets hope for good health both ways on Sunday

Wow! A breath of fresh air. :applause:

I too hope this will be a good game and hope the Redskins win.

In commenting on you first pint, the skins have not been the blitz crazy team they were last year, and have been extremely good in dropping into coverage. I'm sure Coach Williams will try to confuse Eli as much as possible

Again, I hope for a good game, without the refs determining the outcome, and the Skins emerging victorious.

:cheers:

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If you take out the pitiful abberation that was the Charger game, the Giants are giving up 17 ppg which would put our defense 8th in the NFL right now in that number, even lower then the Skins

Not if you let us pick and choose which stats we would like to count like you are trying to do. The Skins defense has yet to allow more than 21 points in any game this year. The Giants have allowed more than that in 3 games. The Skins D is actually giving up 14.3 points per game since one of the scores against them was scored on the offense and SF put up 10 points after the starters had been pulled last week. Plus you can't argue that points are what matters and point to the Skins O as big yardage but no points and then discount that the points the Giants D has given up don't paint the true picture. You can't play both sides of the argument.

The fact of the matter is that stats are not going to win this game. This is a bellwether game for both teams. It should be a very close game given the fact that against two common opponents (Dallas, Denver) both teams are 1-1 with all 4 games decided in the last minute or two.

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i can respect the tone of the post, but there are a few added factors that you should take into account.

first of all, our defense finally has a healthy secondary. we have played one game with all of our starters, and albeit that it was against the 9ers, it was utter dominance.

plax is a good receiver, but matched up against springs is a push. he won't beat him deep and if he tries to come across the middle we have to of the heaviest hitting saftey's stalking him.

toomer has always given us problems, but we don't have bailey anymore to get owned by him. we have walt harris, who while not considered an elite cb, plays gregg williams' d like a stud and will take away what williams wants him to.

now you look at shockey who many say is your "X factor." not only has st man-ed up against him in the past and shut him down, but marcus and lavar can cut him down as well, and have.

i'm not saying that those three players are going to be shut down at all, but you are not going to get into a shoot out with us. your offense has not played against any defenses that match up as well against them as ours does. in fact your offense has only played against one decent defense in denver last week. and in case you didn't pay attention, that last drive was a product of a soft zone coverage with 12 yeard cushions on the recievers with no blitzes. you are facing a completely different beast in our d this week and will not score 21. that's not to say that you won't score 20 or that you won't win, but this is going to be a tight battle.

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If you take out the pitiful abberation that was the Charger game, the Giants are giving up 17 ppg which would put our defense 8th in the NFL right now in that number, even lower then the Skins

What game are we permitted to consider a bogey for our Defense, then?

Considering your Defense is only ecplised in sucktitude by the 49ers, maybe the Chargers game wasn't such an abberation.

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now you look at shockey who many say is your "X factor." not only has st man-ed up against him in the past and shut him down, but marcus and lavar can cut him down as well, and have.

i'm not saying that those three players are going to be shut down at all, but you are not going to get into a shoot out with us. your offense has not played against any defenses that match up as well against them as ours does.

Prior to last year, Shbockey had 3 career games against the Skins...

Game 1- 11 catches 111 yards

Game 2- 5 catches 89 yards

Game 3- 5 catches 65 yards

Hes had some success against the Skins prior to last year, where his and every other recievers numbers took a hit due to the ineffectiveness of Warner, and Eli being a rookie. Your personnel has changed since then, so has ours, but hes had great success when matched against Arrington 1 on 1 in the past.

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Prior to last year, Shbockey had 3 career games against the Skins...

Game 1- 11 catches 111 yards

Game 2- 5 catches 89 yards

Game 3- 5 catches 65 yards

Hes had some success against the Skins prior to last year, where his and every other recievers numbers took a hit due to the ineffectiveness of Warner, and Eli being a rookie. Your personnel has changed since then, so has ours, but hes had great success when matched against Arrington 1 on 1 in the past.

funny how you forget that last year was our first year with williams running our defense. that first game he did own us, but then again, everyone owned us. we sucked for about 10 years in case you forgot. but look at those numbers. notice anything...for some reason the numbers keep going down. way to prove my point.

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Prior to last year, Shbockey had 3 career games against the Skins...

Game 1- 11 catches 111 yards

Game 2- 5 catches 89 yards

Game 3- 5 catches 65 yards

Hes had some success against the Skins prior to last year, where his and every other recievers numbers took a hit due to the ineffectiveness of Warner, and Eli being a rookie. Your personnel has changed since then, so has ours, but hes had great success when matched against Arrington 1 on 1 in the past.

Last year was Taylor's first year. I'm not saying that is the only reason, but I'm sure it contributed.

I hope that we can contain Shockey because, historically, we've not fared well vs. TEs.

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offenses and defenses are ranked based upon yards for one simple reason if offense A goes five yards for a touchdown and offense B goes 95 which is more impressive. the same goes for the defense. like alexrs said its all about field position. points scored stats are severly skewed by average starting field positon but total yards are not.

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funny how you forget that last year was our first year with williams running our defense. that first game he did own us, but then again, everyone owned us. we sucked for about 10 years in case you forgot. but look at those numbers. notice anything...for some reason the numbers keep going down. way to prove my point.

If you project those numbers over a 16 game season he'd have 112 catches for 1,413 yards. He's started his career through 45 games with better numbers then any TE in the history of the NFL at this stage. If you want to compare his numbers through 45 games to guys like Gonzalez, Sharpe, Heap, or just about any other TE who has ever played this game, be my guest, cause it isnt very close. The only 2 to even sniff him at a similar point in their career are Ditka and Winslow Sr

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I welcome you to this message board, finally a giant fan that don't talk smack.i don't like smack myself, i am a lets see it on the field knid of guy.these games between the skins and giants are always slobberknockers fests and then the weather will be perfect.this is going to be a great game.and i do echo your sentiment that no one get hurt, dazed maybe but not hurt.here's to mistake free football and no referee interferance.thanks for coming. eli is going to be a heck of a qb, how could he not? I knew plaxico was going to help, i told some giant fans down here before the season started. your d is alittle suspect, but they always seem to play us at a higher level than others, i guess that's a divisional game for you. :applause: :cheers: :point2sky

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Not all of us around here believe in just the rankings. The ranking don't take into account for the rivalry (although of a lesser degree than our NFC east counterparts) it still exists.

The Giants/Redskins can go either way no matter what the rankings are and there are plenty of myths being spread on both sides of the fence. I think we are a better rounded TEAM, and I think if we can keep from beating ourselves we will prevail.

Hope all your guysstay healthy this weekend except for maybe some neck pain from hanging your heads down all 3rd and 4th quarters.

:gaintsuck

:cheers:

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