George W. Bush's Presidency - One of the toughest tenures ever?

[@DCGoldPants]

I agree with you, and don't forget the Florida vote count that set the left off and the news media off to get Bush at all costs so any misscue or what others think is a blunder, gets an overreaction from the media. They just keep piling on. Like this so called leak, Two years ago when I was living in Washington, everone in her neighborhood knew Valorie Plame worked in the CIA and wonderd what the so called leak was about. Just one example.

everybody knew eh?

That's pretty bold.

You better go talk to the FBI and let them know her neighbors are lying NOW about having no idea what she did beyond being a consultant.

[NavyDave]

One of the most media biased tenures for sure

[SkinsHokieFan]

One of the most media biased tenures for sure

I call it the "yeah but..." tenure

In particular from the media

It honestly is a miracle he got re-elected considering the beating he took in 2004

[NavyDave]

everybody knew eh?

That's pretty bold.

You better go talk to the FBI and let them know her neighbors are lying NOW about having no idea what she did beyond being a consultant.

They probably are lying as to not be involved and have to deal with liberal attacks on the family or have tax audits.

[@DCGoldPants]

They probably are lying as to not be involved and have to deal with liberal attacks on the family or have tax audits.

cause that would be so much worse than lying and getting caught by the FBI.

How about..... They probably didn't know because they didn't have any reason to know. She was covert.

[NavyDave]

How would they get caught if they say I don't know?

Yet its obvios that anyone close to a news stand can see photos of both and know that he was a diplomat an it wouldnt take that much since she was at fundraisers to find out who she is.

The bottom line is that she wasnt undercover at the time or during the time period for it to matter so the entire thing should ve been dismissed.

[@DCGoldPants]

wrong.

If she had established covert contacts, and even if she was inactive at the moment. Perhaps the outing of her exposed a covert agent who was with her during specific situations and potential contacts.

Now she's outed and all the time, money, whatever what was put into this situation is all ruined. Meaning that potentially, other undercover agents are now heading to a desk job near you because their cover could be gone.

If this was done on purpose and it's found to be on purpose. The penality should be WORSE... to include any other CIA agents who may have had their cover blown because of this.

However, if there are indictments. I think we all know it'll be because lying under Oath and obstruction of Justice when it comes to National Security.

[footballhenry]

Burgold, dude you listen to Michael Moore WAY too much. Vacation? Are you serious? Really, with all due respect, many of you do not realize the scope of the President of the United States, REGARDLESS of political beliefs. It is THE most strenuous stressful, draining job, period. I mean good god, look at how much Bush has aged from 2000 to now, look at Clinton, Reagan, etc. To minimize a man's service to 'vacation' is sickening. I just do not understand this partisan hatred, I've said it before and I'll say it again, because many of you (Liberty, for ex.) have not been listening. REGARDLESS of how things have come to be, regardless of political beliefs and policy decision making, it is how much ONE man has to endure. Here are the reasons why Bush, as a MAN (even though some of you just cannot grasp that), has endured an extremely (arguably one of the most) tough presidency:

1. September 11th, Over 3,000 Americans Killed instantly. The Greatest single attack on the United States, EVER. This alone caused MUCH pain and suffering as any of us could imagine for a leader, for ANY leader.

2.Invasion of Afghanistan, Invasion of Iraq, War on Terrorism. Over 2,000 American soldiers dead. What many of you forget is that Bush is a man, and he has a heart. I have no doubt that the man has suffered greatly from this war. He has gone out of his way to meet with hundreds of families to try to offer condolences. I have seen and read numerous instances, and you can literally see the emotional damage it has caused him.

3. Katrina + numerous record hurricanes. The fact that we have had the biggest most destructive storm to ever hit, and wipe an entire major city off the map doesn't warrant being tough to you guys? Get real, ANY president would be bogged down and stressed to hell if this happened. Thousands of people stranded, injured, or dead.

4. The age of technology. I think Bush has tough skin, however the fact that he is the MOST hated man in the World, no doubt, has got to wear on him. The fact that he is scrutinized and criticized and blamed for everything imaginable is hard enough. It hearkens back to when Carter was blamed for every thing that was wrong with well everything, even though many things were out of his control. The extreme partisan hatred is stronger than ever, and the personal hatred may be even stronger.

These are just some examples to try to make my case, take it or leave it. This is not a partisan issue, it is not liberal or conservative. It is on the pure merits of what he has to endure, and has had to endure. LBJ had to endure much sorrow over soldier's deaths in Vietnam, Carter over the hostage crisis, USSR invasion, Nixon over watergate, Clinton over Lewinksy scandal, FDR over WWII and Pearl Harbor, Lincoln over the Civil War.

The thing is at least president in the past, far past, could at least get away when/if they needed to. Modern presidents do not have that luxury, as they are constantly monitored, followed, and recorded. And no Bufford I am NOT trying to incite people, as I figured this would be a simple quality debate. Sorry but I know my intentions better than you do. Anyways, I appreciate all the responses, its been a healthy exchange of ideas.

[jrockster21]

No, what's pathetic is the lefts attempt at every turn to marginalize and minimalize this President. From his mis-speaks, to his days not in the Oval. It's 24/7 attack with you all.

Kind of like when Bill was in office? Kind of like how he got IMPEACHED for an extra-marital affair? And yes, I know that's not the 'official' reason he got impeached, but that was what the right tried to use to discredit him.

Bush is a complete failure of a president, and no attack from the left is necessary to show this. He's done quite a good job himself. And football henry, his tenure is nowhere near being one of the toughest, because being the failure that he is, he's brought most of it on himself (as many others in this thread have said).

And fh, you are trying to incite, as Bufford said. You didn't want this to turn into a Bush-bashing thread, but you (possibly subconciously) started the thread out with Clinton bashing by saying Bush "inherited a recession." And you wonder why the lefties are attacking you. :doh:

[Predicto]

They probably are lying as to not be involved and have to deal with liberal attacks on the family or have tax audits.

WTF? Makes no sense at all. When the FBI comes by to ask you about your neighbors, you just tell them what you know. It happened all the time in McLean, where I grew up. There is no reason to lie to them.

[Kilmer17]

blah blah failure blah blah quagmire blah blah liar blah blah.

He's a failure in the eyes of the left, who frankly, dont mean much anymore. There's plenty he's done that I disagree with, but the word failure is such a vitriolic term. It's used so often now it's lost it's power.

He's been very successful in the eyes of the people that voted for him.

[SkinsHokieFan]

blah blah failure blah blah quagmire blah blah liar blah blah.

He's a failure in the eyes of the left, who frankly, dont mean much anymore. There's plenty he's done that I disagree with, but the word failure is such a vitriolic term. It's used so often now it's lost it's power.

He's been very successful in the eyes of the people that voted for him.

I think the big thing is Bush wasn't afraid to make the tough decision

I call the 90s the 20th centures gilded age because everything seemed so good, everyone was making money, we weren't "at war", you buy stock and you are a millionaire

The only tough decision Clinton had to make was Monica or Jennifer.

Bush has made a ton of incredibly tough decisions, bold, and decisive. The left clearly disagrees with them, the right for the most part agrees with them. You stick your neck out on the line and that is what you get.

Is it the toughest tenure ever or one of the toughest? Hard to say, and based on my limited world view I have no idea. I certainly think it has been tougher then Bill Clinton's because GWB took on the tough challenges and dared to do things like touch the 3rd rail and spark a debate about social security.

He could have after 9/11 done what the left wanted, which was not attack Afghanistan, which was "prosecute" Al Qaeda, and well we'd be at peace and everyone would be fat and happy

[Predicto]

He could have after 9/11 done what the left wanted, which was not attack Afghanistan, which was "prosecute" Al Qaeda, and well we'd be at peace and everyone would be fat and happy

Nice baldfaced lie there, unless you define the "left" as entirely consisting of communist pamphleters and Quakers.

Pretty much every democrat was on board with invading Afganistan, including me. It was the right turn into Iraq that made no sense to us or to the rest of the world.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Nice baldfaced lie there, unless you define the "left" as entirely consisting of communist pamphleters and Quakers.

Pretty much every democrat was on board with invading Afganistan, including me. It was the right turn into Iraq that made no sense to us or to the rest of the world.

The far left is a key consitutent in the Democratic party, like it or not. They are the deniacs and those who do the grass roots stuff, just like the far right, the religious people, social conservatives are a key part of the Republican party

Notice I never said Dems in my post, but the left

And do I need to pull out Fall 2002 quotes from D's on Iraq? Really, hindsight is 20/20 but in the year leading up to Iraq, D's were there

[chomerics]

No, what's pathetic is the lefts attempt at every turn to marginalize and minimalize this President. From his mis-speaks, to his days not in the Oval. It's 24/7 attack with you all.

Man, if this isn't the definition of a blind partisan, I don't know what is. Bush had it EASY for the first 4 1/2 years of his presedency. The republican noise machine squelched out ANY and ALL questioning of the president. Read some of the questions asked of the president during the 02-04 years.

Hell, he was allowed to start a war based on FALSE information, lies and propaganda simply because the press would not ask the tough questions. . . and when they did, they were exommunicated from even asking questions.

Maybe you were asleep at the wheel during the Clinton years, but I remember a HARSH press asking him questions about things such as his sexual behavior. Funny how that gets to pass as actual news in Republican's eyes, yet asking the president if his staff KNOWINGLY commited treason by PURPOSELY outing a CIA agent is somehow partisan.

Do you think it's possible that his staff travels with him? Or comes in when needed?

Well, during Katrina, where was Cheney? In Mantana picking out a new million dollar home. Where was Condi? In Manhattan buying thousands of dollars worth of shoes. If the staff IS with him, they sure have a funny way of poping up 1000's of miles away from Crawford.

The entire part of his vacation reflects DIRECTLY on how hard his presidency was. IF it was as hard an FH and others are trying to make it out to be (as well as Fox News, their "new" talking point) then shouldn't he have at least spent more time in Washington? What would the right's attack dogs say if Clinton was on vacation 42% of his first year and we were attacked? Do you NOT think it would be a HUGE battle cry? Of course it would, so why cry foul when others bring up the question?

You should re-read Bufford's post, he's spot on.

Conservatives should stop whining about how things are tough or how it is the liberals fault or how the Dixie Chicks will singlehandedly undermine and destroy all American cohesion. They need to take responsibility. Is the Government too big? They did it. Is spending out of control? They spent it. The Conservatives have controlled the pursestrings for more than a decade. If intelligence agencies are shorthanded and underfunded, if the intel is bad, if the military is undermanned, guess who voted to make it so. Presidents propose, but congress votes it into reality. Conservatives have the reality they want. THey want big government, ever increasing spending, missed millitary quotas and a military that is undersupplied, they want open borders and lax security on the docks and harbors, and they want no bid contracts that fail to invigorate the economies of communities that have been struck by calamnity. How do I know this. That's how they vote. How do I know that that's what conservative voters want? Because they looked at these behaviors and they voted for the same guys again. Don't whine that it's tough for President Bush. It is a situation almost entirely created and controled by a conservative executive, legislative, and judicial branch and has been that way for most of the last twenty years

.

[jrockster21]

Man, if this isn't the definition of a blind partisan, I don't know what is. Bush had it EASY for the first 4 1/2 years of his presedency. The republican noise machine squelched out ANY and ALL questioning of the president. Read some of the questions asked of the president during the 02-04 years.

Hell, he was allowed to start a war based on FALSE information, lies and propaganda simply because the press would not ask the tough questions. . . and when they did, they were exommunicated from even asking questions.

Maybe you were asleep at the wheel during the Clinton years, but I remember a HARSH press asking him questions about things such as his sexual behavior. Funny how that gets to pass as actual news in Republican's eyes, yet asking the president if his staff KNOWINGLY commited treason by PURPOSELY outing a CIA agent is somehow partisan.

Well, during Katrina, where was Cheney? In Mantana picking out a new million dollar home. Where was Condi? In Manhattan buying thousands of dollars worth of shoes. If the staff IS with him, they sure have a funny way of poping up 1000's of miles away from Crawford.

The entire part of his vacation reflects DIRECTLY on how hard his presidency was. IF it was as hard an FH and others are trying to make it out to be (as well as Fox News, their "new" talking point) then shouldn't he have at least spent more time in Washington? What would the right's attack dogs say if Clinton was on vacation 42% of his first year and we were attacked? Do you NOT think it would be a HUGE battle cry? Of course it would, so why cry foul when others bring up the question?

You should re-read Bufford's post, he's spot on.

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:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

:owned:

[footballhenry]

Buff the post was about the toughest tenure, 2 of the worst things to ever happen to the US happened during his time, we are not debating anything else here. With those plus a recession and a war that ranks pretty high. The 24/7 thing was talking about how much he is under a microscope, thats it, and no other president execpt Clinton can say the same.

I think we should refer back to jbooma's post. Most specifically this portion:

Buff the post was about the toughest tenure, 2 of the worst things to ever happen to the US happened during his time, we are not debating anything else here.

[chomerics]

The far left is a key consitutent in the Democratic party, like it or not.

Yea, like Clinton and Kerry. . . they're radical lefties

ShF, you keep on professing this, yet you have absolutely nothing to back it up. The far left is non-existant, so this language is absolutely false. The far RIGHT is in control of the country, do you honestly thing there is a "far left" anymore? If you do, then what do you have for proof other then idle words which have been long gone. Saying this is akin to saying conservatives are fiscally responsible.

I'm calling you out now because you keep on saying it, yet you have absolutely nothing to back it up. In fact, the democrats are mostly moderate. The ones running for president, Kerry, Clinton, Biden, Bayh, ALL are moderates, and they are the ones that are in control of the party. You need to come up with some facts if you are going to continue to profess this false claim, because frankly, I am sick of reading it.

Notice I never said Dems in my post, but the left

And do I need to pull out Fall 2002 quotes from D's on Iraq? Really, hindsight is 20/20 but in the year leading up to Iraq, D's were there

And how is it the democrats fault? They were not the ones that voted to go to war. Do you really want me to bring up the vote? Do you really want me to bring up the EXACT language Bush used to get people to pass? Do you really want me to bring up how the extreme right slandered democrats in the election saying they were soft? Do you want me to bring up the viscous language used, and how the American public bought into it? Do you need to be reminded what was said about the Dixie Chicks? How about if you are against the war, you are with the terrorists? How anout every democrat called a terrorist lover for actually calling Bush on his BS? How about when the republicans put out a campaign commercial morphing Max Cleeland into Bin Laden? They were going along because it was their only hope of survival.

[jrockster21]

I think we should refer back to jbooma's post. Most specifically this portion:

fh, you can't have this discussion without it heading in the direction it is going. Sure, Bush had some rough things happen during his administration. But that is useless information unless you consider how he handled them. So yeah, he's had a rough go. But most of that is self-inflicted because the decisions he's made have been terrible.

Bush is the worst president we've ever had in this country. Its a travesty that he was such a mud-slinger at McCain, otherwise we'd have actually had a good president for the past 5 years.

[chomerics]

I think we should refer back to jbooma's post. Most specifically this portion:

2 of the worst things to happen were not 9-11 and Katrina. There have been FAR FAR more worse things then that.

Even if I give you the point that they both happened on his watch, and they were "the worst things to happen to this country", he got absolutely no blame for 9-11, so how was this hard? In fact, 9-11 brought the entire country together like never seen before, Bush was the one that decided to use all of that "capitol" and dupe the AMerican public into believing Iraq was a threat.

As for Katrina, he could have been looked at in good eyes again by the American public, unfortunately, he had no hope of making that tragedy a success. From his moronic appointment of Mike Brown, to his lack of urgency after the hurrican hit, to his idiotic comments of "Brownie, you're doing a hell of a job" and "I', going to sit on Trent Lott's porch one day" shows a man completely out of touch with reality. This is what happens when you surround yourself with yes men and cronies, and that is nobodies faule but his own.

[footballhenry]

Wow, this asinine. The hatred for one man is just mind numbing. AGAIN GO BACK AND REREAD MY INITIAL FREAKIN POST PEOPLE! good god, its not hard. You people act like hes on par with Hitler or something, jesus christ.

[footballhenry]

Oh and I love how everyones ignored my posts using Carter as an example, a good one imho. Its an example of how my political beliefs do not effect the view that he endured ALOT. This isn't hard. :doh:

[DjTj]

Wow, this asinine. The hatred for one man is just mind numbing. AGAIN GO BACK AND REREAD MY INITIAL FREAKIN POST PEOPLE! good god, its not hard. You people act like hes on par with Hitler or something, jesus christ.

Hitler probably had the worst tenure of any German President in history ... although Kaiser Wilhelm and Francis von Habsburg didn't exactly have it easy either ...

[footballhenry]

Hitler probably had the worst tenure of any German President in history ... although Kaiser Wilhelm and Francis von Habsburg didn't exactly have it easy either ...

:laugh: Well in terms of a tough tenure, this would be correct, self-inflicted or not. What many of you have chosen to ignore (chom, bufford, etc.) is that I specifically said to abandon the fact whether things are self-inflicted or not ( I even gave the drug addict example, just because something is self-inflicted doesnt make it any less painful to go through). Again speaking in pure terms of what a person goes through...

[chomerics]

Wow, this asinine. The hatred for one man is just mind numbing. AGAIN GO BACK AND REREAD MY INITIAL FREAKIN POST PEOPLE! good god, its not hard. You people act like hes on par with Hitler or something, jesus christ.

Fh, when you have a thread like this, do you think people will actually agree with you, or disagree? If you think they will disagree with you, what do you think some of the replies would be? Personally, I wasn't attacking Bush, but reasoning WHY he has not had a hard presedency, and all of the rhetoric about his "tough time" was mostly brought on by himself.

I brought up Iraq because it IS pertinant to the discussion. He used his political capitol gained after 9-11 and spent it on something that is hurting his presidency. He surrounded himself with cronies and yes men, which hurt his presedency. He split the country in two, which hurt his presidency.

In fact, of the 2 disasters which you said were tough, and Booma said were "2 of the worst things ever to happen to this country", one he was given a free pass, and the other was a manifestation of his poor judgement. If he handled Katrina with an adequate response, people would have supported him. In fact, nobody blames Bush for Katrina hitting NO, what they blame him for is the woefully inadequate response, then trying to pass the buck on everyone but himself. If Bush showed leadership, maybe people would think different, but fortunately for America, the emperor was found with no clothes. Harriet Miers was just the icing on the cake for the rest of us.