Windy City Skins fan Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I know that this has been debated numerous times on this site. Just wanted to post what was written today on the Huffingtonpost blog by some guy named Steve Cobble. Personally, I wouldn't mind if they changed the name. Just my own opinion. I do know that the issue is more complicated than that. Everyone can post comments on the Huffington Post website and give him your thoughts. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-cobble/redskins-slur_b_8678.html Redskins = Slur There's just no two ways about it--for the team representing the city of our national government to continue to use the name "Redskins" in the 21st century is a slur, a slander, an offense against decency and history. Go to the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary: "redskin = usually offensive; American Indian". That's pretty clear. Or check out Dictionary.com, where it lists a couple similar definitions: "redskin = n. Offensive Slang; used as a disparaging term for a Native American" or "redskin = n. offensive terms for Native Americans". The name's defenders argue that this is a small thing. Even more reason to change it--because it would also certainly be a trivial thing to change the name. It could be done this afternoon, with one press release. My friends know that I have ranted about this for decades. In the wake of the movie "Dances With Wolves," back in the dark ages before the Huffington Post, I tried to write a guest column on the subject. Though it was brilliantly written, Pulitzer Prize material actually, neither the Washington Post nor City Pages was the least bit interested. (A few weeks ago, though, a Washington Post sportswriter, UnWise Mike, did raise the issue in a well-written column. For those of you who have never lived in the D.C. area, and never had to endure the endless hometown hype and hysteria that passes for football season here, I should also note that it was a brave column to write.) But since yesterday was Indigneous Peoples' Day (aka known as Columbus Day, by those who think that old Cristobal "discovered" America), today I'll join Suzan Shown Harjo and the tenacious Native American activists who have been battling on this issue for years. (For those of you new to this issue, here and here are just a couple of Ms. Harjo's articles on these issues, concerning the NCAA's recent efforts to clean up college team names; Ms. Harjo is the lead plaintiff in a suit against the Redskins' name, Harjo et al. v. Pro Football, Inc.) This is straightforward--it's just plain wrong. It has a simple solution--change the name. Look, we know it's wrong. The proofs are simple: A team named the New York "Kikes" would be wrong. A team called the San Diego "Greasers" would be wrong. A team named the Charlotte "Coloreds" would be wrong. A team named the Washington "Wops" would be wrong. This does not take any brain cells to know. The heart understands it immediately. Just as it understands that 50,000 fans doing a "tomahawk chop" is wrong. Please stop it, Atlanta. Just as it understands that stadiums full of college kids doing war whoops along with the cheerleaders is wrong. The NCAA gets it now. So why is anyone even resisting? Surely the leaders of our enlightened educational institutions understand that what was regarded as okay in earlier times often turns out to be bad policy later on. (Any day now President Bush is going to have a "eureka" moment about the Confederate flag, right?) Plus, eliminating this wrong would be as easy as when Abe Pollin decided that in a city full of gun violence, he could no longer in good conscience keep the team name "Bullets". So he changed it. (But then, Abe Pollin paid for his own stadium, too. Maybe they don't make owners like Abe any more...) Look, since Dan Snyder became owner of the Redskins, he has changed everything about the team except its name. He changed the name of the stadium. He changed coaches. He got rid of players and bought new ones. He changed coaches again. He raised the prices. He changed the summer training camp locale. He changed coaches again. He charged for people to watch practice. He raised parking prices. Everything but the name. Shame on you, Mr. Snyder. You know it's wrong, but you keep trying to turn a slander into some argument about tradition. Join the 21st century. Take a small step for decency. No more Redskins. A slur is a slur, even if powerful people prefer it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC4 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Oh well Yet another dumb :moon: white liberal who choices to ignore the survey taken by the University of Pennsylvania of 768 Native Americans from around the country in which 90% said they were NOT offended by Indian nicknames for sports team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiLfan Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 regardless of all the endless fuss the bleeding heart, holier-than-thous of the world make over this subject....i doubt SERIOUSLY anyone is losing sleep at night over the name of a football team. nevermind the fact that why in the world would anyone name their team after something that was considered to be an epithet is beyond me. it's like calling your team the "Jacka$$es" or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakinandpeakin Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 The tomahawk chop belongs to Florida State. The Braves stole it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Prime Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I'm a strong part Native American and that part of me isn't offended so the pale face liberals and kiss my Lakhota Sioux butt! he `cu sni yo .... b!tches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Agree to change the Fighting Irish and we can talk. Riddle me this Batman, why is the "tomahawk chop" offensive yet a guy walking around in a Viking costume is not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I know that this has been debated numerous times on this site. Just wanted to post what was written today on the Huffingtonpost blog by some guy named Steve Cobble.Personally, I wouldn't mind if they changed the name. Just my own opinion. I do know that the issue is more complicated than that. Everyone can post comments on the Huffington Post website and give him your thoughts. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-cobble/redskins-slur_b_8678.html Redskins = Slur There's just no two ways about it--for the team representing the city of our national government to continue to use the name "Redskins" in the 21st century is a slur, a slander, an offense against decency and history. Go to the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary: "redskin = usually offensive; American Indian". That's pretty clear. Or check out Dictionary.com, where it lists a couple similar definitions: "redskin = n. Offensive Slang; used as a disparaging term for a Native American" or "redskin = n. offensive terms for Native Americans". The name's defenders argue that this is a small thing. Even more reason to change it--because it would also certainly be a trivial thing to change the name. It could be done this afternoon, with one press release. My friends know that I have ranted about this for decades. In the wake of the movie "Dances With Wolves," back in the dark ages before the Huffington Post, I tried to write a guest column on the subject. Though it was brilliantly written, Pulitzer Prize material actually, neither the Washington Post nor City Pages was the least bit interested. (A few weeks ago, though, a Washington Post sportswriter, UnWise Mike, did raise the issue in a well-written column. For those of you who have never lived in the D.C. area, and never had to endure the endless hometown hype and hysteria that passes for football season here, I should also note that it was a brave column to write.) But since yesterday was Indigneous Peoples' Day (aka known as Columbus Day, by those who think that old Cristobal "discovered" America), today I'll join Suzan Shown Harjo and the tenacious Native American activists who have been battling on this issue for years. (For those of you new to this issue, here and here are just a couple of Ms. Harjo's articles on these issues, concerning the NCAA's recent efforts to clean up college team names; Ms. Harjo is the lead plaintiff in a suit against the Redskins' name, Harjo et al. v. Pro Football, Inc.) This is straightforward--it's just plain wrong. It has a simple solution--change the name. Look, we know it's wrong. The proofs are simple: A team named the New York "Kikes" would be wrong. A team called the San Diego "Greasers" would be wrong. A team named the Charlotte "Coloreds" would be wrong. A team named the Washington "Wops" would be wrong. This does not take any brain cells to know. The heart understands it immediately. Just as it understands that 50,000 fans doing a "tomahawk chop" is wrong. Please stop it, Atlanta. Just as it understands that stadiums full of college kids doing war whoops along with the cheerleaders is wrong. The NCAA gets it now. So why is anyone even resisting? Surely the leaders of our enlightened educational institutions understand that what was regarded as okay in earlier times often turns out to be bad policy later on. (Any day now President Bush is going to have a "eureka" moment about the Confederate flag, right?) Plus, eliminating this wrong would be as easy as when Abe Pollin decided that in a city full of gun violence, he could no longer in good conscience keep the team name "Bullets". So he changed it. (But then, Abe Pollin paid for his own stadium, too. Maybe they don't make owners like Abe any more...) Look, since Dan Snyder became owner of the Redskins, he has changed everything about the team except its name. He changed the name of the stadium. He changed coaches. He got rid of players and bought new ones. He changed coaches again. He raised the prices. He changed the summer training camp locale. He changed coaches again. He charged for people to watch practice. He raised parking prices. Everything but the name. Shame on you, Mr. Snyder. You know it's wrong, but you keep trying to turn a slander into some argument about tradition. Join the 21st century. Take a small step for decency. No more Redskins. A slur is a slur, even if powerful people prefer it. HEY!!! I take offense to that...it should be NY WOPS, not kikes....damn man...and BTW if you really want to use the slang for Italians, it's Guinnea. The term WOP was given to Italians at Ellis Island...it means without papers. Just this "WOPS" opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 The web log has given a voice to far too many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tizzod Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 First off, let me say that I have some Cherokee in me and I couldn't be any prouder of that. For the life of me I can't understand how someone can find a sports team name, or a tomahawk chop, offensive. I mean, the only thing I can figure is that these people, this minority within the entire community, who by the way, DO NOT and WILL NEVER speak for me, think that such things are what is keeping the Indian community down, or whatever it is these people talk about, but I don't get that. Some guy on a reservation sees a tomahawk chop on TV, and goes out and gets completely wrecked on Lysol because he's so distraught? I don't think so. Life on reservations flat-out SUCKS. Conditions are squalid, those places are sh!tholes. How are these "activists" working on that? Alcoholism is rampant, drug abuse is rampant. How are these "activists" working on that? They talk about taking so much offense to things, how about all this stuff right in their backyard? I'll tell you why. That requires too much work and is too much trouble. And it goes without saying, they also won't get all the notiriety they can get from screaming about pro sports teams. The media care much more about stirring up stuff about sports teams then they do tackling serious social issues within the entire Indian community themselves. (And by the way, screw the term "Native American." Whoever was born here is a friggin' native American. There is no shame attached to the word "Indian" at all.) They would much rather scream about the safe, easy sports team name nonsense, and these "activists" can get far more camera time doing that too, instead of doing the dirty work toiling in relative obscurity trying to fix their communities. Fix the important stuff first. Tackle the hard issues that are actually, really, truly, seriously hurting people and the community, then come back to the dumb stuff on the list later on. Just my opinion. Sorry if anyone got all bent out of shape about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsbadd Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Brilliant post tizzod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Screw this name change stuff. We DC sports fans gave into pressure once before and what did we get? The "wizards". Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Just because a word is defined a certain way in a dictionary does not mean that it is an accurate definition. Believe me, as an English teacher I deal with this mess all the time. (Every year I have to give a mini-lesson on why "ain't" is not a word, even though it is published in several dictionaries.) The truth of the matter is that the term "Redskin" was not started as a slur or derogatory term. As a matter of fact, it was an Indian or Native American (or whatever other PC name one would like to brand these people with) term. Also, our team was named by and in honor of a Native American coach. Tell me how that makes it offensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoeRedskins Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 The name's defenders argue that this is a small thing. Even more reason to change it--because it would also certainly be a trivial thing to change the name. It could be done this afternoon, with one press release. By far one of the stupidest things I have ever read. I can't even come up with a sarcastic remark for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoeRedskins Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 HEY!!! I take offense to that...it should be NY WOPS, not kikes....damn man...and BTW if you really want to use the slang for Italians, it's Guinnea. The term WOP was given to Italians at Ellis Island...it means without papers.Just this "WOPS" opinion Wow, you learn something new everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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