qcraftsman Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Do you or not? Just a poll and you can give a reason. This is gonna be interesting. Probally worse than politics!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Guaranteed Overnight Delivery? i never used them before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qcraftsman Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 thats funny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 For those of us who have seen these threads more than twice, I'm not sure interesting is the word. The search feature should provide you with more than you care to read. By the way, your poll isn't nearly sophisticated enough to deal with the variety of responses you're going to get. P.S. I'm not saying your thread sucks, it's just been done before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamingwolf Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I believe that september 2005 will be a date that will live in infamy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Yes and I'll say this - Pascal's Wager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagles_Legendz Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Yes and I'll say this - Pascal's Wager Pascal's wager hardly means you believe in God. Rather, you realize it'd be more profitable to you if you did. To answer this question for me: I believe that something with a great amount of power created this universe. I'm not sure if that is an applicable answer or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Yes and I'll say this - Pascal's Wager logical fallacy Now back to the question Edit: Scratch that out put me in the agnostic camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsD Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I do believe in God based on two principles: 1) to say God does not exist one must concede that Hitler and Mother Theresa ultimately have the same outcome. To me that is improbable. 2) I am a big fan of C.S. Lewis who said that our conscience is proof of the existince of God. Throughout history all people have held the same belief of right and wrong, thus Lewis' argument. I am a Catholic and believe in its teaching but acknowledge that there is no way any human could fathom what the afterlife consists of, however I firmly believe in an afterlife and a final judgement for all those who exist on this Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 mweh, don't really care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballhenry Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Only yes or no? What about the agnostics!>?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 No, others may believe, but I hold my feet to facts before faith, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I do believe in God based on two principles:1) to say God does not exist one must concede that Hitler and Mother Theresa ultimately have the same outcome. To me that is improbable. Improbable, or undesirable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Where's Code? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLadyRaven Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I was raised to believe never thought about it just accepted it as true because well I was told to. ( I personally have never felt the holy spirit but, im still young it might come to be someday) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeythetapeworm Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Agnostic here. I sort of waver between which possibility I think is more likely, but I don't think I'll ever be too certain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamingwolf Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Time and space that is what proves divinity to me, what that divinity is I have no idea. People can explain away time and space saying we are just too small brained to understand it, but the two most dominant realities of our existance are impossibilities. There can be no begining or end of time, and there can be no begining or end to space. People can muscle you into believing your too stupid to understand that reality, but tell me how something can expand forever(forever mind you) without having the aide of divinity. Time and space is what makes me respect the God worshipers, I dont play by their rules but I certainly dont look down on them. Theres something going on and yes Im one of those people who say it must be the Gods when I cant explain it. There can be no begining or end to time and space, regardless of how big your brain is there is no way space or time can end. You can end your measurments of them, but they dont end its impossible for them to end. We live in an impossible universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Time and space that is what proves divinity to me, what that divinity is I have no idea. People can explain away time and space saying we are just too small brained to understand it, but the two most dominant realities of our existance are impossibilities. There can be no begining or end of time, and there can be no begining or end to space. People can muscle you into believing your too stupid to understand that reality, but tell me how something can expand forever(forever mind you) without having the aide of divinity. I'm glad Einstein didn't have your take on time and space, because if he did, our world would be a very different place right now. Time and Space are intertwined with another, you can't have one without the other. In the real world, we don't notice this, yet on a cosmic scale as you approach the speed of light, the difference is drastic. This is completely explained in Einsteins equations, and we've had over 100 years to absorb and understand the concept. There are millions of people who understand space-time and how the two intermingle with each other. There is a beginning, and there will be an ending, this much is certain, and science can prove it. People can chose not to believe it, but that isn't the same thing as saying "two most dominant realities of our existance are impossibilities", when there was a definate beginning to our universe, and there is a definite end to it as well. Time and space is what makes me respect the God worshipers, I dont play by their rules but I certainly dont look down on them. Theres something going on and yes Im one of those people who say it must be the Gods when I cant explain it. There can be no begining or end to time and space, regardless of how big your brain is there is no way space or time can end. You can end your measurments of them, but they dont end its impossible for them to end. We live in an impossible universe. We don't live in an "impossible universe", we live in a practical, and predictable universe. It is based on mathematics, equations and laws. You can decide to ignore the science, or pass it off as something else, but it is not impossible, in fact if it was impossible, we would cease to exist, and then your argument would hold a lot more water. . . but there would be nobody around to say you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamingwolf Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I'm glad Einstein didn't have your take on time and space, because if he did, our world would be a very different place right now.QUOTE] what is beyond the edge of space, what is the moment beyond the edge of time? Im not saying science isnt practical, and Im not saying science doesnt have a use. What Im saying is donkeys like you are so desperate to disprove religion that your willing to blindly ignore the reality of impossible existance to endear your political cause. Really son, thats your cause and its not even the politics its really Acceptance. You are a desperate cat for acceptance, your nature doesnt allow you to find the one you need. I just wish when you melted into your jelly mold you had atleast refuted what I said, but in your spineless way you just went flashy and did a broadway distraction. Einstein would have loved to party with me(side note: I would have got him laid), and wouldnt have disagreed with me. So tell me again whats beyond the edge of space and what happends beyond the last moment of time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamingwolf Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 chomo as much as I dislike you, I hate you more for being a promoter of the humanist movement than anything(dont fall in love with the term humanist, its probably the only one they cant foul). The sad thing is, I dont think you even realize you are a member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 No, others may believe, but I hold my feet to facts before faith, but that's just me. There are several factual ways of showing the existance of God without having "faith" in God. There's a guy, Bill Gasarch (a computer scientist), http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gasarch/christian/christian.html, who speaks about how he converted to Christianity because of an intelligent discussion on the evidence for Christianity. Here's how would construct a 'proof' of the existence of God. Godel's incompleteness theorem provides a mathematical way of showing that the natural numbers {0, 1, 2, ...} are way too complex to ever be fully understood using the human mind. More formally, he says that there is no recursive way to prove that a statement is false. For example, If I can make the statement "I am not true", and represent it in first order logic, then whatever system i am using muse be incomplete since this statement is both true and false at the same time. If we expand this from mathematical thinking to the general human minds knowledge base, we run into the same contradictions. Which lets us know that we as humans will never fully understand all the things of this universe. The question then becomes, "Is there any being that can understand these things?" Resorting back to first order logic, the compactness theorem tells us of the existence of a set if every finite subset exists. Suppose that set is the wisdom of given beings, and we question "is there a being with all wisdom?" Then by compactness, we need to ask if we can find different beings with all the different possible combinations of wisdom. Thats what each human mind is, a different subset of the set of all wisdom. So then by the compactness argument there must be a being that has the collection of all wisdom. That satisfies one of the characteristics taught about God, that he has all wisdom. Similar arguments can be made about his other powers. And so ultimately we must conclude that GOD DOES EXIST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bounty Hunter #21 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Yes sir i do...i am a Catholic...God has helped me alot with the loss of my father and grandfather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Hey Chom, are there any numbers bigger than infinity? Are there any prime numbers greater than any integer? How about this one, how does the power set of the complex numbers look? The complex numbers are an algebraically closed system that we use in mathematics for the sole purpose that any equation has an answer in this system. But there is a set of numbers bigger than this set that we have no idea how to construct. So if we don't even know how this set looks, do you really think we can speak of beginnings and endings in this set? Einstein was a great scientist, the thing that he did that was more marvelous than any else was that he grew up learning these laws of science, and did research based on them until he ultimately concluded that all they were missing a key fact, which is his theory of relativity. This means that there were several things that the scientists before him could not prove because they didn't know this existed. What is it that we don't know? What theorem or even theory is there that hasn't been stated yet? If you can tell me that then you, yourself can be responsible for every success that man accomplishes after this point. The key fact is that there are things that scientists don't know. And more, we don't know what we don't know. So when we speak of the areas of space and time, we can't speak with certainty because we don't even know where to begin. In grade school we learn about the integers, rational numbers, real numbers, and complex numbers. BUt these are not all the sets of numbers. There is a set, the power set of the complex numbers, that is much bigger than the complex numbers. Scientits have no idea how to work in this set, although much of the world has to do with this set. So there are many theorems that we cannot yet prove. Whats even more confusing is this concept of 'infinity'. What are the properties of infinity? Nobody can say because nobody's seen infinity or approached infinity. These are some of the limitations of science. Godel showed that there are many more that go beyond these (The ones I stated are based purely on his completeness theorem. But my previous post spoke of his incompleteness theorem). So we have to be careful what we call 'facts' vs what we call 'beliefs'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I'm in-between Yes/No... leaning towards No (which i picked).. If anyone says they know the Universe they are wrong... It has been guessed at since we began and will be for quite a while more... Some of the best scientists on the planet have been proven wrong year after year with better equipment. Another wobble or the color or phase of a cloud / black hole / distance / time.... equals an update/fix on the science.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Monk Fan Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Do I believe in God? Yes, I do. And that is completely separate from being able to prove God's existence. I think some of the more mathmetically and scientifically inclined here have given some evidence towards a "proof," my area of expertise lies elsewhere, so I'll leave that to them. Were I to try and search for a proof, I would begin by measuring the impact God has on other objects in the universe. Much like the concept of dark matter, which science has no direct evidence of, this is the only way to "prove" God. For those who do not know, dark matter is a theorized substance that science knows very little about and cannot measure in any way other than through its obvious effects on other objects in the universe. It must exist because its effects can be measured, though it cannot be seen or detected in any other way -- a lot like God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.