REPORTS: Redskins not trading Ramsey (merged)

[GSF]

It actually does say "as good an arm"...

Hey look at that, it does, doesn't it. :laugh:

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Hey look at that, it does, doesn't it. :laugh:

Damn that reading comprehension... :laugh:

[Ghost of]

Hey look at that, it does, doesn't it. :laugh:

GSF

Just learn this simple fact. I don't make mistakes when I make an absolute statement, I've already made sure I'm right so I don't look foolish.

:laugh:

[AJ_Skins]

I just think it's funny that we have an entire coaching staff behind one man and a few fans think it actually has to be justified to them. I don't even want to know what a few losses will do to this place.

We are 2-0 this year and our offense finally shows some life for the first time since Gibbs' return and we have more QB controversy.

What happened at the end of the Dallas game was a team who had totally OWNED and DOMINATED the opposing team for a decade went into the fourth quarter of a game at home after having seen jack squat from the Redskins offense for three quarters, set up tents, pulled out sleeping bags, and took a nap. That's all it was.

[Hooper]

Here's I how see it. I know, I know, nobody cares but I'm bored.

The coaching staff feels a lot more comfortable with Brunell under center. Apparently, if you believe Nunyo and John Keim, the players do to.

If Brunell stinks it up again or gets hurt (both real possibilities in my book), Ramsey will get another shot unless the playoffs are out of reach. I think we all know that Brunell's leash is a lot longer because of what little confidence Gibbs has in Ramsey.

Campbell will only play this year if the playoffs are out of reach. But if I had to bet, I'd put my money on him being our starter next year.

My point? Um, I don't know. Again, I'm bored.

[jbooma]

this shouldn't be a Campbell vs. Ramsey conversation.

The coaching staff has shown Patrick nearly no confidence.

That's what is important here.

If we're not confident with him for more than 3 series on 1 game.... then what's the point in keeping him? So, we can be FORCED to play him if Brunell gets hurt?

he hasn't shown them anything to be confident about

[Art]

Art said it, check above. And I agree JC has plenty of arm strength to be successful, I just hate seeing overstatement or falsehood in order to make a point.

I said it as it's true. From a distance standpoint, Campbell actually surpasses Ramsey. Ramsey has more velocity on normal intermediate throws. I hate seeing people who are required to puff of players they like as if they take any reference to ability by another player as a slight. I like Ramsey. He's got a great arm. So does Campbell. And Campbell surpasses him in most other ways from a measurable standpoint.

[Neophyte]

Here is my question to all the Ramsey folks. Why do you think Gibbs prefers Brunell?

And don't give me that crap about proving he was "right" last year. Gibbs proved the first time around he would rather win than be "right". He did that when he just had to have Gerald Riggs and talked Bobby Bethard into getting him only to play Byner full time and use Riggs as short yardage because Byner had it and Riggs didn't.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

What happened at the end of the Dallas game was a team who had totally OWNED and DOMINATED the opposing team for a decade went into the fourth quarter of a game at home after having seen jack squat from the Redskins offense for three quarters, set up tents, pulled out sleeping bags, and took a nap. That's all it was.

I agree...and I've never said that Brunell dominated that game.

He did however dispell any doubts that he didn't have an arm strong enough for the NFL.

And we didn't catch two Hail Marys either. These were legitimate passing plays where our WR got behind a pretty good safety to make big plays. I agree that the Cowboys were shocked, but I don't think any of their players weren't playing hard on those two plays...

[jrockster21]

Mort apparently refuses to let the Ramsey trade rumors die.

Remember how we all doubted your namesake's "rumor" that the Skins were going to take Jason Campbell in the draft? I'm not saying Mort is correct, I'm just saying we just have to wait and see. If the Jets offer something really good, then they'll have to consider it. Especially a first rounder. And if they're desperate, then they just might!

[@DCGoldPants]

Then why keep him?

Show us your insight on this one.

If he hasn't shown them anything to be confident about. Then why is he the #2 QB on the roster? why is he untouchable? Why can't he be traded?

Why not get SOMETHING in return when you can....and give a kid who's put his body on the line, and worked his butt off, a chance to play somewhere?

Do we only help out headcase WR's with toe problems and huge cap numbers? Or is there SOME consistency in this front office?

[Hooper]

Puh-lease. No one is giving up a first round pick for Patrick Ramsey.

[Ghost of]

Hooper,

That's not a bad take. I guess my thoughts are that 1) There's no bleeping way that players forget a previous year like some fans on this board do. 2)John Keim consistently reported practice differently than our own TC reporters(who, nearly to a man, said Ramsey was better and Brunell still had balls sailing on him on deeper throws) and Joe Crisp, from Warpath. In fact, if you read enough Keim, he has seemed interested in stirring things up as everyone latched onto Gibbs ambiguous statements regarding Brunell and Ramsey.

Point of fact: Because Gibbs does something or even the ENTIRE COACHING STAFF, don't make 'em right.

SImple reason: Last year. I can't overlook that Brunell got praised for putting his ego above the team for several games, and that Gibbs did the same (by about CHicago, Ramsey was just as ready as he was later, by his own word he wasn't ready until then.) I can't overlook the coaching staff felt comfortable with a TERRIBLE offense, that they had to promise to tweak or face internal dissent from the players on.

Jansens "1991 offense" and the like.

No one on this team, except maybe Gregg Williams, are gods or infallible. Thus, I could not care less what their opinion is.

But that's my arrogance shining through.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Then why keep him?

Show us your insight on this one.

If he hasn't shown them anything to be confident about. Then why is he the #2 QB on the roster? why is he untouchable? Why can't he be traded?

Why not get SOMETHING in return when you can....and give a kid who's put him body on the line, and worked his butt off, a chance to play somewhere?

Do we only help out headcase WR's with toe problems and huge cap numbers? Or is there SOME consistency in this front office?

Because then what do we do for a backup QB? Why jump at a 3rd round pick (or whatever the offer is) when you have a QB who's at least taken live snaps in the offense?

I take Gibbs at his word too. He said last year that Brunell's time here wasn't over and he was right. He said the same thing about Ramsey this season. I think he believes that Ramsey just needs to fine-tune some things.

[Ghost of]

I said it as it's true. From a distance standpoint, Campbell actually surpasses Ramsey. Ramsey has more velocity on normal intermediate throws. I hate seeing people who are required to puff of players they like as if they take any reference to ability by another player as a slight. I like Ramsey. He's got a great arm. So does Campbell. And Campbell surpasses him in most other ways from a measurable standpoint.

Art, I'm not required to do anything but correct someone when they misspeak in order to bolster their point. You could have said JC has very good arm strength and better accuracy, etc.

You chose to go the exaggeration route and say he had as good an arm.

He doesn't. If you can't throw the ball with velocity on intermediate routes as good as someone else, it's not likely you can throw as far. It's called physics. Now, maybe JC is more ACCURATE or puts better touch on deep throws, but in terms of ABSOLUTE physical ability to go from point X to point Y, then I'm going to lay money on the champion javeliner.

I didn't take anything as a slight other than overstatement. If you had said Ramsey was taller than JC, I would have corrected you on that. It's what I do, Art.

I never intimated that you didn't like Ramsey or thought he had a weak argument. I even conceded Campbell had better traits in OTHER areas. I just corrected you on the one because I thought it was ludicrous.

[318 SKIN]

I said it as it's true. From a distance standpoint, Campbell actually surpasses Ramsey. Ramsey has more velocity on normal intermediate throws. I hate seeing people who are required to puff of players they like as if they take any reference to ability by another player as a slight. I like Ramsey. He's got a great arm. So does Campbell. And Campbell surpasses him in most other ways from a measurable standpoint.

I not sure anyone has ever measured JC vs PR in how far they can throw. I will say this, Sonny said he was amazed at how far Ramsey could throw the ball, never seen anything like it. That comment was made back when PR was still a favoite around here. Maybe it's just me, but I bet Sonny has a better perspective than Art..........

[TheLongshot]

Wow, this quickly devolved into a Ramsey vs Campbell debate. :roll:

Sorry, but I don't see Ramsey being traded during the season unless someone offers something silly for him. Gibbs likes to play veterans, and I can't see him being comfortable having a rookie as his primary backup. QBs go down every year, and when they do, you will want one who can run things.

The Ramsey vs Campbell argument here is pointless. Potential doesn't really matter in this case. You want the guy who has been in there with the experience. You'd want Ramsey.

Jason

[@DCGoldPants]

Because then what do we do for a backup QB? Why jump at a 3rd round pick (or whatever the offer is) when you have a QB who's at least taken live snaps in the offense?

I take Gibbs at his word too. He said last year that Brunell's time here wasn't over and he was right. He said the same thing about Ramsey this season. I think he believes that Ramsey just needs to fine-tune some things.

Well, you put a lot of faith in Campbell, but trading up and drafting him.

Think about the rookie QB's taken in the 1st who didn't start. They were mostly #2 during their 1st year.

Palmer, McNabb, Leftwich, Big Ben, Pennington, this year you've got Smith and Rogers.

You draft a QB in the 1st round....usually he's also the backup.

[Hooper]

Another great post, Ghost. But in Keim's defense, Nunyo also wrote that the majority of players he talked to off the record wanted Brunell to be the starter.

I am so not sold on Brunell. But the same goes for Ramsey. He scares the crap out of me every time he drops back. More than anything else, that's why I think Gibbs has Brunell in there (even though one could easily argue that the team may be better off with the heart-attack inducing Ramsey in there).

[Art]

I not sure anyone has ever measured JC vs PR in how far they can throw. I will say this, Sonny said he was amazed at how far Ramsey could throw the ball, never seen anything like it. That comment was made back when PR was still a favoite around here. Maybe it's just me, but I bet Sonny has a better perspective than Art..........

Too bad I can't tell you Sonny's perspective from having sat with him for hours on Sunday .

But, no one doubts Ramsey's throwing arm. I haven't here. I too trust Sonny more than myself. His insight was quite illuminating on this topic. Ramsey remains a favorite of mine. I've said so. I'm just willing to acknowledge there are clearly flaws in his game that have limited his production to this point. You don't seem willing to do the same.

[Gregpeck99]

The Skins would have to be nuts not to trade Ramsey to the Jets now! He is a depreciating asset ... If they wait ... he will end up being worthless (to the Skins).

[Hooper]

Sonny may have pointed out how ridiculously strong PR's arm is, but he's also been one of his harshest critics.

[Art]

Sonny may have pointed out how ridiculously strong PR's arm is, but he's also been one of his harshest critics.

Ding.

[AJ_Skins]

Apparently, if you believe Nunyo and John Keim, the players do to.

I don't think the other players care. Or maybe better, there's no point in them caring, because they have no say in the decision. So better to get on board with whatever the coaches decide and try to make it work, because the alternative is to end up with a mutiny and a lost season, none of which anybody wants at this point.

I think the bottom line is this: Gibbs's confidence in Brunell scares the crap out of me. After what happened last year, my confidence was shaken, but hey, Gibbs was just shooting for stability. He didn't want a lot of QB changes. Then he comes back and yanks Ramsey out of nowhere after one quarter and goes back to Brunell?

I don't want to believe all of the very bad possible explanations for why Gibbs has done these things. By refusing to explain the decision AT ALL, he opened the door up to it, but I still want to believe the best. I want to believe:

A) Coach Gibbs is an honest man who makes his decisions based totally on what he thinks is best for the team.

and

Coach Gibbs still knows what's best for the team.

The difference between me and a lot of people here is that there is a limit to my blind faith in any human being, including Joe Gibbs. I'm capable of thinking on my own, and being objective about reality.

And like I said, something here stinks. :pooh:

[AJ_Skins]

The Skins would have to be nuts not to trade Ramsey to the Jets now! He is a depreciating asset ... If they wait ... he will end up being worthless (to the Skins).

And he'll be worthless because the Skins HAVE MADE HIM WORTHLESS.