Gallntfox Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Ramsey's arm is one of the top 5 in the league (Sonny's observation) PR's wonderlic score = 32.........JC's 14. Campbell's Wonderlic score at the combine was 28.............everyone seems to forget that when taking shots at him. Maybe he was having a bad day with the first test....or maybe someone "coached him up" before the 2nd test...either way he showed marked improvement the second time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Ramsey's arm is one of the top 5 in the league (Sonny's observation) PR's wonderlic score = 32.........JC's 14. Only scores I care about are on the field. How about this comparison: Ramsey has been "damaged" by having to figure out two different offenses in his career. Campbell learned 4 different ones in four years of college and led a team to the National Championship.... Wonderlic Shonderlic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Based on what I've seen of Campbell, which is admittedly not much, Ramsey is much better throwing the ball. In terms of both arm strength and precision, Ramsey is one of the better QBs I've seen come along in the league in a long time. The problem in his case is mental, but based on Campbell's dismal Wonderlic score, Ramsey probably has him there too. Campbell is much more accurate then Pat. Campbell is a very accurate passer. Many of the observers at training camp said it was obvious how much more accurate Campbell was then Ramsey and Brunell, especially on the deep stuff. Ramsey has a very strong arm, he was a javelin champ in school. Campbell also has a hose though which was also evident at camp. If Ramsey is the best QB to come out you've seen in a long time then you must not be watching many other teams. Sure he's tough and has a cannon, but his accuracy is questionable, and he has a hard time reading defenses and making decisions. A strong arm is useless if you don't know where to throw the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Ramsey's arm is one of the top 5 in the league (Sonny's observation) PR's wonderlic score = 32.........JC's 14. Ramsey has a great arm. No doubt about it. He's also incredibly bright as a person. To many observing his play, though, he seems to be the kid who could throw the javelin far and was told to play QB who has never developed instincts to be a great QB. When Ramsey's primary read is there, few in the game are more effective. It's after that person is taken away on any given play that Ramsey seems to be sluggish getting rid of the ball and quickly processing the plays. He routinely seems to be a second or two behind. We've long commented that he appears to be a guy who holds the ball far too long to be effective long term. With hope, he can develop some here and really take off. Campbell has a wonderful arm as well and superior touch already than Ramsey has developed to this point. He's also a high-quality athlete in terms of speed, though he's not a "runner". How he develops on the field will be determined in a few years, as it still will with Ramsey. It's the mental part of the game and instincts for the game that will determine it. Neither may have those skills. Both may. Ramsey's just had a long time to show them and largely hasn't. I play a LOT of basketball. I have really fine instincts for the game. I sense a lot I can't see just from having a feel. You can't measure that. It's either there or it isn't. I've played a lot of rugby but I've never developed the feel that makes a good player something much greater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
318 SKIN Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Campbell's wonderlic score was 28 (the second time he took it). And PR may have book smarts, but his football smarts are questionable at best. the 3rd time he took it - scouts use the scores from the combine as the benchmark. However, I do agree it's not the wonderlic scores that matter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 That is exactly why Coach Gibbs yanked him.He believes his arm strength can make up for his prescision and timing. He believes that if he delivers a pass late and slightly off-target, his arm strength can make up for it. Rather than have someone who takes the gunslinger attitude, Coach Gibbs wants a QB who does what he is trained to do in order to run this Offense. My observation is that the coach is taking that equation way too far. If it leads you to put in Brunell, you're going overboard trying to avoid mistakes. We got lucky against Dallas, but that doesn't mean Brunell is going to be something other than what he has been over time, which is very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 DO you think NY would give up a 1st rounder for a temporary fix? Or are they thinking long-term in case Pennington never recovers from the rotator cuff problem...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 PR seems like a great guy, but someone else on this board said it best -- he is a javelin thrower playing quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neophyte Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 My observation is that the coach is taking that equation way too far. If it leads you to put in Brunell, you're going overboard trying to avoid mistakes. We got lucky against Dallas, but that doesn't mean Brunell is going to be something other than what he has been over time, which is very little. Guess that is why you are not the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpy007 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I have mixed feelings... I feel like Tom Hanks in "Bachelor Party" when his fiancée’s ex wanted to trade Tom a Porch for her. Decisions, decisions... :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waleo32 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 There's no way in hell we're getting Abraham, people need to stop talking about it. I'm a big P Ramsey fan, but the Jets would have to be stupid to give Abraham up!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Oh Gee Whiz, Campbell's arm IS NOT as strong as Ramsey's. His other physical tools might be just as good or better, but let's not go overboard. That is an ABSOLUTELY ridiculous statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Oh Gee Whiz, Campbell's arm IS NOT as strong as Ramsey's.His other physical tools might be just as good or better, but let's not go overboard. That is an ABSOLUTELY ridiculous statement. Maybe that's why nobody said it. Ramsey has a stronger arm, but Campbell has plenty of armstrength to be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Maybe that's why nobody said it. Ramsey has a stronger arm, but Campbell has plenty of armstrength to be successful. Art said it, check above. And I agree JC has plenty of arm strength to be successful, I just hate seeing overstatement or falsehood in order to make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Ramsey's just had a long time to show them and largely hasn't. That's where my sense of things is not satisfied yet. He's had too much upheaval, not just in offenses he's been asked to learn, but in what his status is with the team, for him to have proven himself one way or another. I started a thread a while back where I said that the move only makes sense in one scenario: Ramsey sits for a while and comes back greatly improved. If that's what Gibbs is shooting for, fine. But if the idea is that Ramsey supposedly "had his shot" based on four preseason games and one quarter of the first game of the season, then nah...that's a load of crap...bad mismanagement of the position. You may get him to focus more mentally by sitting him, but the issues he supposedly needs to overcome are ones that it seems to me can really only be worked out with playing time in real games. Get him in there with good protection and a sound offensive system, and give him at least as long as you gave Brunell last year. Otherwise, they're just jerking his chain, and making a total waste of what the team invested in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Ghost: Campbell has a wonderful arm as well and superior touch already than Ramsey has developed to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 That's where my sense of things is not satisfied yet. He's had too much upheaval, not just in offenses he's been asked to learn, but in what his status is with the team, for him to have proven himself one way or another. I started a thread a while back where I said that the move only makes sense in one scenario: Ramsey sits for a while and comes back greatly improved. If that's what Gibbs is shooting for, fine. But if the idea is that Ramsey supposedly "had his shot" based on four preseason games and one quarter of the first game of the season, then nah...that's a load of crap...bad mismanagement of the position. You may get him to focus more mentally by sitting him, but the issues he supposedly needs to overcome are ones that it seems to me can really only be worked out with playing time in real games. Get him in there with good protection and a sound offensive system, and give him at least as long as you gave Brunell last year. Otherwise, they're just jerking his chain, and making a total waste of what the team invested in him. Pretty much. I love how he's had all this time, when under Gibbs he's had, what 7 starts and one quarter of start time, in which the passing game looked better than it did after he went out. You ask ANYONE in this forum(except a few holdouts) a year ago if Spurrier's system was an NFL system and prepared a QB for play in Gibbs system and they'd say, "NO." Now, of course, Ramsey has had "four years," of course, a full 4 haven't even passed yet, but I just love how the standards and views shift on this board as they follow Gibbs. Check the post on this board just before the Chicago game. Check some of these same cats out and what they said. Now look at them. Other than stalwarts like myself, Yusuf and the like---they all shifted like sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I agree with Art. Ramsey has a good amount of upside but Campbell brings more physical tools to the table. He is quicker on his feet and can move around in the pocket, he can throw the deep ball, and is just an all around better athlete then Patrick. If they were both in the draft and you have had one draft pick to burn, you'd take Jason every time. I don't think that's the case at all, but everyone's entitled to their opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Originally Posted by Art I like Ramsey a lot, but he does NOT have better physical tools than Campbell in the slightest. Campbell has as good an arm, better touch and far more athleticism. That's for you GSF. Check Post #49 in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 this shouldn't be a Campbell vs. Ramsey conversation. The coaching staff has shown Patrick nearly no confidence. That's what is important here. If we're not confident with him for more than 3 series on 1 game.... then what's the point in keeping him? So, we can be FORCED to play him if Brunell gets hurt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Hey Ghost, Not trying to pick a fight here man, but where did Art say Campbell's arm is as strong as Pat's. He said Campbell had a good arm, better touch and athleticism, and he's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Hey Ghost,Not trying to pick a fight here man, but where did Art say Campbell's arm is as strong as Pat's. He said Campbell had a good arm, better touch and athleticism, and he's right. It actually does say "as good an arm"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Pretty much. I love how he's had all this time, when under Gibbs he's had, what 7 starts and one quarter of start time, in which the passing game looked better than it did after he went out. You ask ANYONE in this forum(except a few holdouts) a year ago if Spurrier's system was an NFL system and prepared a QB for play in Gibbs system and they'd say, "NO." Now, of course, Ramsey has had "four years," of course, a full 4 haven't even passed yet, but I just love how the standards and views shift on this board as they follow Gibbs. Check the post on this board just before the Chicago game. Check some of these same cats out and what they said. Now look at them. Other than stalwarts like myself, Yusuf and the like---they all shifted like sand. Yep...he was drafted in 2002. He saw some action that year against Tenn. and GB, then a few games at the end of the season. Started in 2003, had the highest Qb rating in the league for the first weeks, and then the word got out that Spurrier's offense folds when you blitz, Ramsey got beaten up, and sat out the end of the year. All of that time was spent in a college offense. 2004, Gibbs comes in, brings in Brunell, Brunell stinks it up and Gibbs finally caves and pulls him, Ramsey finishes out the year in an extremely constrained offense with a 65% completeion percentage and a 3-4 record as a starter. Now he gets pulled in the first game in favor of BRUNELL AGAIN? Nah. Something in this place stinks. :pooh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Ramsey has a cannon. So does Kyle Boller. Heck, so did Jim Druckenmiller. There's a lot more to playing qb than having a super-strong arm. (In Ramsey's defense, no poise and all, he is still ten times the qb Kyle Boller is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Yep...he was drafted in 2002. He saw some action that year against Tenn. and GB, then a few games at the end of the season. Started in 2003, had the highest Qb rating in the league for the first weeks, and then the word got out that Spurrier's offense folds when you blitz, Ramsey got beaten up, and sat out the end of the year. All of that time was spent in a college offense. 2004, Gibbs comes in, brings in Brunell, Brunell stinks it up and Gibbs finally caves and pulls him, Ramsey finishes out the year in an extremely constrained offense with a 65% completeion percentage and a 3-4 record as a starter. Now he gets pulled in the first game in favor of BRUNELL AGAIN? Nah. Something in this place stinks. :pooh: I just think it's funny that we have an entire coaching staff behind one man and a few fans think it actually has to be justified to them. I don't even want to know what a few losses will do to this place. We are 2-0 this year and our offense finally shows some life for the first time since Gibbs' return and we have more QB controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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