Brunell: Too Deep (video analysis)

[JimmiJo]

But I think you might be missing the point. I like you, we've had civil conversations, so I don't think there's any issue there. What you're missing though is that the thread is about Brunell and something I've seen that is directly linked to many of his bad plays in the past. It's not about convincing

Brunell homers or preaching to the Ramsey choir.

This was a football discussion thread. That's it. Sure, there were other things in there because I'm not an idiot--I will acknowledge the elephant in the room. But the thread is just about breaking down a habit I saw that was detrimental to Mark's performance. If he comes out vs. Dallas and steps up and doesn't show fear of the pocket or rush--then we're straight, I believe.

In that case I will take you at your word.

Brunell I beleive was not comfortable last week. But he has also not worked with the starter this preseason. I expect him to be better tomorrow for the reasons given in my next post.

[JimmiJo]

I don't think anyones going to actively root against Brunell. I think ghost, like myself, is having a much harder time forgetting just how abysmally horrible Mark was last year. Some of us are skeptical of the "hamstring". I more so because unless I missed something we didnt even find out about it til this year. I am also skeptical because what I saw as I sat in the stands during the game on sunday reminded me eerily of his play last year. Ramsey has problems. I would be stupid to argue otherwise. The first 9 games of last season are seared into my memory. I have never seen it that bad. I hope to never see it that way again.Hell I actually hope Im wrong. Doesnt change the way I see things though.

I understand and agree that it was reminiscient (sp?) of last year. When I saw that the bears shut down detroit today, I felt better however. You said, "Some of us are skeptical of the "hamstring". I more so because unless I missed something we didnt even find out about it til this year."

I am very skeptical of the hammy. I think something was wrong with his arm, and have said as much. However, I think it is better this year. There is no doubt that in the preseason he looked better, had more zip, accuracy, and velocity.

If we look at this in context of this year only, Brunell has played and looked better. Plus he's mobile. Plus he's smarter.

All that said - his body may not be able to give what it takes anymore. I appreciate that. But I think he willnot cost us games and I think Ramsey has/does/will.

[AJ_Skins]

Yes but Ghost you surely and clearly remember me being gracious, predicting that PR would start the opener based on his performance in the Steeler game and NOT hating on Ramsey just because the guy I thought (still think) gives us a better chance to win was not starting. I didn't spend a week looking to pick-apart PR's play.

I called for Brunell to be benched last year. I was also the 1st one on this site to say that he looked like a whole new QB this year, and to conjecture that his arm looks better.

All I'm saying is that enough with it. You were gracious when your guy was the man, be gracious now. This week has shown that none of us PR/Brunell homers are going to convince the other side of our point of view.

The biggest problem is that you have peole being "homers" about a particular player at all (or even those who are simply "Gibbs homers"). The question is, how do we win games? To me the facts are that Brunell is not a long term solution. He played very poorly last year, did not play appreciably better against Chicago, and would be very unlikely to last a whole season if you tried to put it on him. Campbell is not ready at all, so playing him would be giving up on the season. To me, that means Ramsey has to come through, or we can switch of our TVs until next year. I don't think Gibbs believes in throwing away the season, and I don't think he has an overwhelming confidence in Brunell. I think he made the move for this week, and I think he very much hopes Ramsey improves, because I think he sees the same things I'm saying here.

It's not about rooting for one player as an individual over another, and it shouldn't be about winning an argument on a message board. To me, I've said it a bunch of times going back to the preseason-- Ramsey is our only shot this year, period-- and depending on what free agent QBs are available in the offseason, he may be our only shot next year, too. Which means he ultimately may be our only shot for Gibbs's second time around, unless Gibbs stays beyond his current contract. Even if Campbell started next year, and even if he turned to be the greatest QB in NFL history, it would be highly unlikely (historically speaking) for him to lead a Super Bowl winner before his third season at the earliest.

I guess some people are just too short-sighted to factor all these things in, but I don't think Gibbs is.

[jrockster21]

----jrock--where's the rest of the line?

Its on the picture!!

[JimmiJo]

To me, I've said it a bunch of times going back to the preseason-- Ramsey is our only shot this year, period

AJ you have yet to tell me why PR is our only shot. Not in a way at least that I understand.

[AJ_Skins]

AJ you have yet to tell me why PR is our only shot. Not in a way at least that I understand.

I though I just did.

1) Brunell didn't look any better against Chicago than he did last year. If you want to put a bunch of stock in his play in the preseason, I think you're making a mistake.

2) Even if Brunell has improved his play, at his age and with his history of injuries, the likelihood that he could carry the team all the way through to the playoffs is slim.

3) Campbell is not ready.

I just don't see a scenario where we make the playoffs/have a winning record this season that doesn't involve Ramsey.

[jrockster21]

I don't think anyones going to actively root against Brunell. I think ghost, like myself, is having a much harder time forgetting just how abysmally horrible Mark was last year. Some of us are skeptical of the "hamstring". I more so because unless I missed something we didnt even find out about it til this year. I am also skeptical because what I saw as I sat in the stands during the game on sunday reminded me eerily of his play last year. Ramsey has problems. I would be stupid to argue otherwise. The first 9 games of last season are seared into my memory. I have never seen it that bad. I hope to never see it that way again.Hell I actually hope Im wrong. Doesnt change the way I see things though.

I am very skeptical of the hammy. I think something was wrong with his arm, and have said as much. However, I think it is better this year. There is no doubt that in the preseason he looked better, had more zip, accuracy, and velocity.

To Deacon -- we found out that Brunell injured his hamstring during the game he injured it.

To both of you -- I'm assuming that neither of you has ever pulled a hamstring before. I have, and even though it was a relatively minor pull, it hurt like hell and I ran like a retard for almost 3 weeks. Brunell's was injured so bad his leg was black and blue. Unless you've felt a hamstring pull, I doubt you can comment on what its like to plant and throw off an injured one.

[JimmiJo]

I though I just did.

1) Brunell didn't look any better against Chicago than he did last year. If you want to put a bunch of stock in his play in the preseason, I think you're making a mistake.

2) Even if Brunell has improved his play, at his age and with his history of injuries, the likelihood that he could carry the team all the way through to the playoffs is slim.

3) Campbell is not ready.

I just don't see a scenario where we make the playoffs/have a winning record this season that doesn't involve Ramsey.

Ok, I agree with all that you have said. Here are the reasons I think PR is not the answer:

He looked worse than last year all preseason and in the bears game. He costs us games with dumb-a** decisions (can anyone say throwing into triple coverage in the red-zone in Philly?), he telegraphs his passes, he is terribly immobile, and just not a quality starter.

He's had plenty of time and opportunities to show us otherwise.

[Ghost of]

JRock

THere is no...picture(/Darth Vader)

[JimmiJo]

To Deacon -- we found out that Brunell injured his hamstring during the game he injured it.

To both of you -- I'm assuming that neither of you has ever pulled a hamstring before. I have, and even though it was a relatively minor pull, it hurt like hell and I ran like a retard for almost 3 weeks. Brunell's was injured so bad his leg was black and blue. Unless you've felt a hamstring pull, I doubt you can comment on what its like to plant and throw off an injured one.

How do you run now?

I don't really care what it was, but I find it strange that he had his best effort all of last year in the Dallas game immediately following the Giants game where he injured the hammy.

'splain that.

[AJ_Skins]

Ok, I agree with all that you have said. Here are the reasons I think PR is not the answer:

He looked worse than last year all preseason and in the bears game. He costs us games with dumb-a** decisions (can anyone say throwing into triple coverage in the red-zone in Philly?), he telegraphs his passes, he is terribly immobile, and just not a quality starter.

He's had plenty of time and opportunities to show us otherwise.

Well, if you agree with what I said, and you think Ramsey can't get it done, then where are we? You're must be prepared to give up on this season completely, and accept another losing record. I didn't say Ramsey was a guarantee...I said he's our only shot.

[jrockster21]

Hey, The-Rock, you just got

Yah there is -- that picture!! -----^

[Mooka]

2) Even if Brunell has improved his play, at his age and with his history of injuries, the likelihood that he could carry the team all the way through to the playoffs is slim.

If Brunell can stay healthy and he's improved then I would call that a very good shot to make the playoffs.

I have doubts that Brunell can stay healthy for a full season. Very large doubts, but it doesn't mean it will happen. Even Stephen Davis was able to come back and produce.

[JimmiJo]

Well, if you agree with what I said, and you think Ramsey can't get it done, then where are we? You're must be prepared to give up on this season completely, and accept another losing record.

See AJ, that's what gets me with you, you make strange assumptions.

AJ, you sound thirsty, have one on me:

A Nice Cold One Just For You

[AJ_Skins]

If Brunell can stay healthy and he's improved then I would call that a very good shot to make the playoffs.

I have doubts that Brunell can stay healthy for a full season. Very large doubts, but it doesn't mean it will happen. Even Stephen Davis was able to come back and produce.

But those are two very big 'IF's, and so far we have no evidence to support either, but we do have a mountain saying it won't happen.

[Ghost of]

Hey, insert AJ, insert JimmiJo and it gets civil in here!

THAT is what I was looking for! (though the thread did get a bit off course, I suppose.)

[AJ_Skins]

See AJ, that's what gets me with you, you make strange assumptions.

AJ, you sound thirsty, have one on me:

A Nice Cold One Just For You

Uh huh. You agreed that Brunell and Campbell won't get it done, and you don't think Ramsey will either. In case you didn't notice, those are the only three QBs on our roster...

I know it hurts to think sometimes, but you've got to stretch yourself on occasion.

Or maybe you think we can with no quarterback on the field at all. :koolaid:

[JimmiJo]

Uh huh. You agreed that Brunell and Campbell won't get it done, and you don't think Ramsey will either. In case you didn't notice, those are the only three QBs on our roster...

I did not agree that Brunell won't get it done. I agreed that the Bears game looked like last year.

If you had read the post just above yours I clearly stated that I beleive he is healthy this year and that he gievs us the best chance to win.

I love a good debate, but let's not make stuff up, K?

[redskinfan4life]

But those are two very big 'IF's, and so far we have no evidence to support either, but we do have a mountain saying it won't happen.

yeah ur kinda right but burnell might last the whole season if the offense line can protect him and if they do we could win the nfc east this year:eaglesuck :gaintsuck :dallasuck :point2sky

[JimmiJo]

Uh huh. You agreed that Brunell and Campbell won't get it done, and you don't think Ramsey will either. In case you didn't notice, those are the only three QBs on our roster...

I know it hurts to think sometimes, but you've got to stretch yourself on occasion.

Or maybe you think we can with no quarterback on the field at all. :koolaid:

That's right Sonny-Jim, drink deep.

[jrockster21]

Hey, insert AJ, insert JimmiJo and it gets civil in here!

THAT is what I was looking for! (though the thread did get a bit off course, I suppose.)

:confused:

Was that post for me?

[AJ_Skins]

I did not agree that Brunell won't get it done. I agreed that the Bears game looked like last year.

If you had read the post just above yours I clearly stated that I beleive he is healthy this year and that he gievs us the best chance to win.

I love a good debate, but let's not make stuff up, K?

I think more likely, you're just looking at whatever Gibbs does and supporting it, which I guess is fine. I would only suggest that I don't think his opinion of Ramsey is as low as yours is, even though he pulled him.

[JimmiJo]

Hey, insert AJ, insert JimmiJo and it gets civil in here!

THAT is what I was looking for! (though the thread did get a bit off course, I suppose.)

Aaw Ghosty, I thought you and I was playin' nice.

:cry:

[Ghost of]

Aaw Ghosty, I thought you and I was playin' nice.

:cry:

We were, I thought I just gave you a compliment?

[Ghost of]

:confused:

Was that post for me?

No...How are people misreading that?! :laugh:

I was talking about other stuff, NOT related to you. But I kind of look at Jimmi and AJ as "champions" of particular factions, whereas you're more in the middle, I think.