Brunell: Too Deep (video analysis)

[Ghost of]

Before I begin, I want any of you who groaned at the thread title to stop reading (or don’t, it’s not my problem) but if you stay DO NOT WHINE in this thread. One thing this forum needs less of is someone chiming in on a thread just to tell the originating poster that it’s not needed or is redundant, EVEN in cases where it clearly is not. Also do not forget that the QB position IS of singular significance, despite recent and somewhat worrisome chants of “Dilfer.” I want you to put aside the Ramsey/Brunell thing (though I will have to compare their pass drops) or Gibbs and the integrity (or competence) question. And please I do not want to hear about turnovers or the like because I can review that too and also review poor decisions that did NOT end up as INTs or fumbles last year (or this year in a few plays.) This is just about tape review and trying to make sense of some things that were bothering me.

I’ve long since forgotten many of my words regarding Brunell and I was trying to recall something better than “gut feeling” about what bothered me about him from the beginning. His critics did point to his inability or unwillingness to step up into the pocket, but it went even further than that. We also pointed out that he often failed to step up, even when there was no apparent rush and he did this PRE-HAMSTRING injury.

What makes me anxious is that he didn’t show much different in the Bears game. I’m not concerned about the playcalling as much or that he didn’t try to take chances. I wouldn’t put that on Mark because at that time it was apparent the Bears weren’t doing ish, though I think we HAD a chance at scoring and it was a poor pass by Mark that got it to the goalline but not a TD (or it would have been interference—Cooley screened off Todd Johnson down there but Brunell threw it into the ground damn near, but I can see why he tried to do that)

Another thing—that Betts block against the Ravens that everyone put on him? One problem—the ball was snapped from the 36. Please explain why Brunell’s arm is back at the 24 when he’s being hit. Could it possibly be, as happened many times last year, that Brunell out-dropped his protection? Now, that was a rollout so it’s not a normal drop but come on—11 or 12 yards? Is that necessary? That, more than incompetence, would explain Betts poor block—the thing didn’t even look like an effort—the only time I see such attempts are when a player is trying to merely guide a blitzer or rusher around a particular spot (i.e. where the QB is supposed to be)

As has been said previously—Mark’s problem isn’t so much arm strength when he has a NORMAL 5-8 yard drop and then steps INTO his throw. The problem is when his base is not set and that happened not only last year but in the Chicago game. Fortunately, protection was better, but this has got to stop. He HAS to step into his throws, or maybe he just can’t consistently anymore. I don’t know why not. Of course, I DO blame his hamstring for that terrible throw vs. the Bears because he had time and space to step up and TRIED to but you can see he can’t step over. This illustrates the ‘timing’ issues and the high passes he threw towards the sidelines last year. If you’re dropping further back and your receivers are still running the same routes(or distance) then this will do just enough to get you to throw high(trying to zip while not maintaining base or throwing into the ground to compensate for this)

It’s no coincidence that the pass to Cooley from last Sunday was a pass in which Brunell did about 3 chop steps INTO the pocket and into his throw.

(By the way, I found video proof from the Bears game of why Sellers was NOT “wide open” in the Steelers game (if we didn’t destroy that theory previously.) One of Brunell’s first throws, one of those he actually had a shallow drop for, a Bears blitzer leaps HIGH into the air in the passing lane towards Mark’s receiver. The arc he had to put on the throw(it was not tipped) was such that it made for an EASY play for the Bears defender and the throw was poor.)

So there you have it. Brunell’s arm isn’t the issue because, hey, Chad Pennington IS in the league, it’s how accurate he is when he has to wrench his body into the throw and how pass plays are affected by incredibly deep drops and when he does not set his feet. For all the talk about Ramsey not doing the same, many of the problems with Brunell last year came from him NOT setting his feet and stepping INTO his throw. Too much backpedaling, too much throwing off his back foot or leaning backward. It’s a good thing his arm IS OK because some of these throws wouldn’t even make it to the target area if not for that.

It seems that Mark rarely made the distinction between avoiding the hit so he could COMPLETE the pass and TAKING the hit so that he could make a GOOD pass. He didn’t do that but a few times all year. That’s why so many of his throws were off—sure his hamstring bothered him, but if you refuse to even step into the throw and take the hit—your pass will be off-target. The damn passes start 2-5 yards behind the spot where other guys are passing and yet Mark is often throwing to the same spot any other QB would. As you might guess this allows defenders more time (not because the ball is that ‘slow’ but because of distance) to make plays on the ball or nail the receiver as the ball arrives. It takes Mark time to make his plant step. It’s like 2-3 steps whereas Patrick kind of BAM, and then is ready to step up. Not sure what the deal is, but it’s making Mark drop back further than he needs to

Many of Mark’s passes (including against Dallas, his ‘best game’) were of the check-down variety—even when the ball ended up a yard in front of the first down marker and Mark had good protection. The pass to Gardner down the sideline was an example of a shallower drop and a step into the throw (and good arc) by Mark. This is what we’re going to need. Pocket passing CANNOT disappear with the guys we have, it just can’t.

On the INT to Vasher, Brunell takes the snap in shotgun from the LOS at the 35 yard line. Mark Brunell drifts left but somehow ends up at the 22 yard line. By the time he steps into his throw he does end up at the 24. Problem is he has to set and then takes chop steps to get his body into the throw. At no time was protection poor. It was a shotgun play, and even a designed roll to his left, shouldn’t have dictated that kind of drop. Vasher picks it off at the 28.

This is NOT a Ramsey/Brunell thing. It’s an NFL/Brunell distinction. If Brunell does not start dropping about 2 yards shallower in the pocket or stepping up 2 yards then we’re going to see a lot of the same things we saw last year. With him doing a lot of rollouts we cannot have this guy dropping 13 yards back and ****ing his arm back like vs. baltimore last year.

PATRICK

Pass 1: Ball at 20.5-21 yard line, drops, back foot at 16, ball released at 17. Complete to 25

Pass 2: at 45(Skins) Shotgun at 40, drops to 39, pass to 47 INTERCEPTED on what is now known to be wrong route on a timing pattern.

Pass 3: Ball at 2 yard line, drops to 5 yards in end zone—pass batted by leaping defender in pass lane(sound familiar)

Pass 4: Same ball position, drops to 4 yards in end zone, pass high at the 6 or 7

Pass 5: Same yard line, drops on half-roll to 8.5 yards back, steps up to about 7 yards deep in end zone, complete to Moss at 13.

Pass 6: 17.5 yard line, Shotgun snap taken at 13, drops to 7(back foot), steps up to 10 yard line to pass Complete to about 32-33

Pass 7: 13 yard line, Shotgun snap taken at 8, drops, back foot to 2.5, steps up and passes at 7 yard line, complete to 31 yard line for first down.

Pass 8: 31 yard line, drops, back foot at 23, steps up and ball is released at 26, overthrown hits 34 yard line of Bears and bounces

Pass 9: 33 yard line, Shotgun snap taken at 29, drops to 24, thrown at 25.5, complete to 47

Pass 10: 43 yard line, Drops to 36, thrown at 36.5, Portis DROPPED at 48-49.

Pass 11: Same spot, Shotgun snap taken at 38, stops at 35, looks around, steps up gets sacked and fumbles

Pass 12: 19 yard line(skins,) Shotgun snap handled well at 14, plants, throws at 12. Complete to Cooley at 24.

Pass 13: 27 or so yard line, drop, throws from 23 yard line, complete to 47 yard line, Moss run and catch

Pass 14: 7 yard line, play fake, roll to the right, deepest depth to 16 yard line, Ramsey runs to 6 after pulling it down

Pass 15: 6 yard line, backfoot drops to 14, but steps up and throws from 12 yard line, apparent TD called back

Pass 16: Snap at 16 or 17, Ramsey gets clotheslined at 21.5 after stepping up.

MARK

Pass 1: At 35 yard line, thrown from 29.5, Bears defender leaps in passing lane—incomplete(as a result of this leaping defender. Polamalu anyone?)

Pass 2: 35 yard line, Shotgun snap taken at 30, rolls to left, plants at 22.5, throws at 24, INTERCEPTION called back due to pass interference. Ball is picked off at 28

Pass 3: 30 yard line of the Bears, back foot plants at 39! Throws at 36.5 or so. Incomplete (and inaccurate) at 19-20

Pass 4: Ball at 22(bears), shotgun snap taken at 27, plant and throw from 30, incomplete to Cooley at 19

Pass 5: Ball at 27, “Wr screen”(not really a screen)

Pass 6: Ball at 47.5, double steps in order to pop forward(backfoot at 37) but he steps up and resembles Ramsey with his steps forward, throws at 42, complete to Cooley at the 34

Pass 7: ball at 25, Shotgun Snap taken at 30.5, rolls past hashmark(towards right—offhand) plants at 38, throws at 37, incomplete out of end zone

Pass 8: same deal, but Brunell runs around and throws the ball out of bounds once he breaks the ‘pocket’ to avoid intl grounding

Pass 9: another quick hitch to WR, discount this

Pass 10: 37.5 yard line, thrown at 32, but Mark seems to be wrenching his body on this one, as if he’s doing more of a discus throw than a short pass to the 41. What is this about? There was no significant rush.

Pass 11: 41 yard line, Shotgun Snap taken at 36, plants and throws at 33, but steps away from his own throw because of rush to avoid hit. Again, nice to avoid hit and he did complete the pass, but is this going to happen even when it’s not necessary? Complete to 43, run and catch for 1st.

Pass 12: Ball at 48, plants at 39, good loft overthrown---

Pass 13: At 20 yard line of Bears, 28, but this is a playfake end around to Royal on the boot

Pass 14: at 4 yard line of Bears, Mark drifts from 11 to 13 yard line, complete to Cooley at 1 yard line when he throws at ground to keep ball away from Todd Johnson.

Pass 15: sack as Betts steps on his feet, discount this

Pass 16: Ball at 28, Shotgun Snap taken at 23, handled well by Mark, drops to 19, and does NOT step into his throw or ever establish his base. Fortunately, his arm does get it to Moss at 35-36.

[The Full Monty]

Excellent post Ghost.

I've felt the same way about Mark Brunell last year with all the recent "revelations" that Brunell was playing through a sore hamstring, specifically, if it was just his hamstring that was the problem, why on earth was he dropping back SO FAR? I think at the time some called it the 20 step drop back. I mean, for someone even playing with a bad hamstring, wouldn't that preclude dropping back so incredibly far sometimes? I just hope that like his gutter ball, I have also seen the last of Brunell's 20 step dropbacks.

[whitejimmy]

Well, since I can't sleep either, here are my thoughts:

MARK

Pass 2: 35 yard line, Shotgun snap taken at 30, rolls to left, plants at 22.5, throws at 24, INTERCEPTION called back due to pass interference. Ball is picked off at 28

I did notice the odd foot-work here. However, I'm sure his arm wasn't ready to toss one 50 yards. He had just come off the bench, so that stutter step may be been the result of hesitancy (lack of confidence in a cold arm). If it were me, the ball may have gone 50, but the arm would have flown out of the socket and gone 20 (shoulder attached). Also, I'm not sure it was actually a bad toss. If not for the interference, Moss may have stepped in front of Vashar and made the catch. It doesn't take much to throw someone off stride when they are running full tilt with 4.3 speed.

Pass 3: 30 yard line of the Bears, back foot plants at 39! Throws at 36.5 or so. Incomplete (and inaccurate) at 19-20.

He took EXACTLY seven steps. Given that 7-step drops are routine (and for all we know, that was what the play called for) is your argument that his strides are too big? Brunell threw it to the "safe" side of the receiver (away from the defender), which is good, but the WR was not open. My criticism on this play is that he should have looked to the next option. He wasn't rushed.

Pass 4: Ball at 22(bears), shotgun snap taken at 27, plant and throw from 30, incomplete to Cooley at 19.

I see your point here about bad foot-work and throwing position, but with such a short pass he figured correctly that he could just "arm" that ball in there. Looks like the pass should have been caught for a 1st down.

Pass 5: Ball at 27, “Wr screen”(not really a screen)

Agree, he had no blockers and there was no baiting or delay. It was not really a screen play.

Pass 6: Ball at 47.5, double steps in order to pop forward(backfoot at 37) but he steps up and resembles Ramsey with his steps forward, throws at 42, complete to Cooley at the 34.

Woo-hoo!

Pass 7: ball at 25, Shotgun Snap taken at 30.5, rolls past hashmark(towards right—offhand) plants at 38, throws at 37, incomplete out of end zone.

Yeah, he's definitely not sacrificing the body to step in to the pass here, but he's just throwing it away, so why take the hit? No one was open down field.

Pass 8: same deal, but Brunell runs around and throws the ball out of bounds once he breaks the ‘pocket’ to avoid intl grounding

Pass 9: another quick hitch to WR, discount this

Pass 10: 37.5 yard line, thrown at 32, but Mark seems to be wrenching his body on this one, as if he’s doing more of a discus throw than a short pass to the 41. What is this about? There was no significant rush.

Pass 11: 41 yard line, Shotgun Snap taken at 36, plants and throws at 33, but steps away from his own throw because of rush to avoid hit. Again, nice to avoid hit and he did complete the pass, but is this going to happen even when it’s not necessary? Complete to 43, run and catch for 1st.

Pass 12: Ball at 48, plants at 39, good loft overthrown---

Pass 13: At 20 yard line of Bears, 28, but this is a playfake end around to Royal on the boot

Pass 14: at 4 yard line of Bears, Mark drifts from 11 to 13 yard line, complete to Cooley at 1 yard line when he throws at ground to keep ball away from Todd Johnson.

Pass 15: sack as Betts steps on his feet, discount this

Pass 16: Ball at 28, Shotgun Snap taken at 23, handled well by Mark, drops to 19, and does NOT step into his throw or ever establish his base. Fortunately, his arm does get it to Moss at 35-36.

[whitejimmy]

Oops, I hit submit too early. Continuing...

Pass 8: same deal, but Brunell runs around and throws the ball out of bounds once he breaks the ‘pocket’ to avoid intl grounding.

Looks like a smart play. Hard to tell from the TV coverage if anyone was open.

Pass 10: 37.5 yard line, thrown at 32, but Mark seems to be wrenching his body on this one, as if he’s doing more of a discus throw than a short pass to the 41. What is this about? There was no significant rush.

Look at that play again. There sure was a significant rush. Two blitzers straight up the middle. Not faking the blitz either, they were coming. Unfortunely for Brunell, his "hot read" was to his right, across his body. Good throw for a short completion.

Pass 11: 41 yard line, Shotgun Snap taken at 36, plants and throws at 33, but steps away from his own throw because of rush to avoid hit. Again, nice to avoid hit and he did complete the pass, but is this going to happen even when it’s not necessary? Complete to 43, run and catch for 1st.

I don't think he could have stepped into that pass with the defender in his face. It was a nice play. I still haven't found much fault in his performance.

Pass 16: Ball at 28, Shotgun Snap taken at 23, handled well by Mark, drops to 19, and does NOT step into his throw or ever establish his base. Fortunately, his arm does get it to Moss at 35-36.

Obviously there was a bad snap here, which precluded any opportunity to get into a textbook throwing position.

Frankly, now that I've gone through these plays, I don't have any complaints about his performance. He did everything he could given the limited opportunities.

[The Full Monty]

Pass 14: at 4 yard line of Bears, Mark drifts from 11 to 13 yard line, complete to Cooley at 1 yard line when he throws at ground to keep ball away from Todd Johnson.

I just re-watched this play and my goodness, why on earth did he drop back almost 10 yards from the line of scrimmage? It's not even a drop back, it's backpedaling. And he doesn't step into into the pass fully, it's a very weak step-up and that takes the sizzle off the ball.

[fansince62]

so what? I'll skip the content and march to yawn directly. MB doesn't have it. neither does PR...and no amount of WHINING masqueraded as penetrating analysis will change that....PR is expendable and will be out of here soon enough....live with it.....next

we can all hope that with his next team PR learns not to telegraph passes, puts some real meat into play action, reduces his turnovers, improves his good to bad decision ratio, actually pleases his offensive coachiong staff (now there's a novel thought for you).......MB has pronounced limits....so does PR. HIs scoring output when heading the offense last season belies any notion that he represents a significant improvement over boonell when confronted with quality defenses. you who are so fond of stats need to reconsile yourselves to that fact.

[CHUBAKAH]

Nibbs, in case you haven't heard, Mark Brunell is the new starter.

Live with it, and stop the madness. Most of us are just glad Ramsey is benched. It does not mean we are happy about Brunell starting. It just means we think he is the lessor of two evils AT THIS TIME. I hope Jason comes along quick, and get's his chance before years end. I truly hope we are looking for a new second, and third string QB by seasons end. It's obvious neither of those guys are very good.

[coldpack]

Frankly, now that I've gone through these plays, I don't have any complaints about his performance. He did everything he could given the limited opportunities.

I agree. :applause:

But, upon futher review, it also reassures me that MB is the right QB for the job.

Yea yea yea, Mr. QB analyst says he doesn't step into his passes. Have you noticed though, the ball is getting to the target, and getting there fast? MB just has a quicker release on short throws. I think its smart, no step? put more velocity on it, something ramsey doesn't do.

Quick hitch passes, quick outs, or ins shouldn't count.. Should they? I mean, the pass is getting there quickly.

Even though i hate seeing them do the quick out every other play, (perhaps its boring) I think its a smart move, just to eat up yardage. But i DO rather prefer MB throwing it to me rather than PR from a coaches stand point. The ball does get there faster w/ MB throwing, it gives less time for the secondaries to react to it. PR just floats them there.

As for the other long plays, he steps up. He jumps out of the pocket some times, but i don't really see anything wrong w/ it. He's stepping into his throws, do you complain when Vick does it? MB breaks, but i'd prefer him getting comfortable w/ the throw and choosing his WR rather than getting pass rushed and being FORCED to make a decision.

Overall, MB puts himself into a position to make better, but most importantly, SMARTER pass opprotunities.

[TheShredder]

PR isn't as serviceable as MB due to the habitual turnovers. In the attempt to salvage the season by conservative planning, MB will have to do. It was a tuff mistake to overpay for MB, BUT CAMBELL IS COMING SOON!

:point2sky

[fansince62]

"Nibbs, in case you haven't heard, Mark Brunell is the new starter.

Live with it, and stop the madness. Most of us are just glad Ramsey is benched. It does not mean we are happy about Brunell starting. It just means we think he is the lessor of two evils AT THIS TIME. I hope Jason comes along quick, and get's his chance before years end. I truly hope we are looking for a new second, and third string QB by seasons end. It's obvious neither of those guys are very good."

!!!!!!!!!!

[TheDane]

I agree. Please stop the madness. Let's just beat Dallas.

[JimmiJo]

I think someone has too much time on their hands.

However, you put forward some thoughtful analysis.

Let's see what happens tomorrow.

[project myu]

I agree. :applause:

But, upon futher review, it also reassures me that MB is the right QB for the job.

Yea yea yea, Mr. QB analyst says he doesn't step into his passes. Have you noticed though, the ball is getting to the target, and getting there fast? MB just has a quicker release on short throws. I think its smart, no step? put more velocity on it, something ramsey doesn't do.

Quick hitch passes, quick outs, or ins shouldn't count.. Should they? I mean, the pass is getting there quickly.

Even though i hate seeing them do the quick out every other play, (perhaps its boring) I think its a smart move, just to eat up yardage. But i DO rather prefer MB throwing it to me rather than PR from a coaches stand point. The ball does get there faster w/ MB throwing, it gives less time for the secondaries to react to it. PR just floats them there.

Mark Brunell put more zip on his passes than Ramsey? :doh:

Either way, rooting for Brunell to demolish Dallas.

[dawgjk9]

hopefully brunells footwork and drop steps have been a work in progress this past week at practice, and are now good enough to look like a normal QB in the pocket. that would allow us to have a better passing game forcing dallas to respect it and allowing us to run it donw their throats winning the t.o.p. battle again. this would be the best formula for a win on monday night..

[Skinsfan1311]

Nibbs, in case you haven't heard, Mark Brunell is the new starter.

Live with it, and stop the madness. Most of us are just glad Ramsey is benched. It does not mean we are happy about Brunell starting. It just means we think he is the lessor of two evils AT THIS TIME. I hope Jason comes along quick, and get's his chance before years end. I truly hope we are looking for a new second, and third string QB by seasons end. It's obvious neither of those guys are very good.

:applause: :applause: Yeah! What he said! (except for the Campbell part) If Campbell starts, IMHO, then Gibbs has given up on the season....MB is the man, let's get behind him......all the doom & gloom is getting old...

[Gamebreaker]

That's a great idea, dismiss everything he wrote and just tell him to "deal with it" when you can't produce a viable counter-argument. Typical.

Great post, Ghost. Don't worry, all of the naysayers in this thread will be agreeing with you soon anyway.

[The Sisko]

Interesting analysis. I had hoped that both Ramsey and Brunell would benefit from better QB coaching this season. Looks like that may not be the case.

[Dirk Diggler]

I agree that one of Brunell's problems last year was taking his drops too deep. It doesn't necessarily justify it, but I can only venture to guess that it was because he didn't trust the offensive line. Provided we are healthy up front, that shouldn't be an issue/excuse for poor play from here on out.

I saw that you mentioned it before, but it can't be stressed enough that Gibbs conservative playcalling was most likely the reason that it looked like 2004 on offense. I don't have a problem with it since in the context of the game (rookie qb, dangerous Bears defense) it was the right thing to do. And hey, we won.

I think you need to give Gibbs/Brunell at least half the season before we declare this offense to be stuck in neutral like last season. Thinks should open up against some of the more suspect pass defenses we have coming on the schedule such as Dallas, Seattle, and Denver.

[No_Pressure]

Brunell at least sets his feet right and doesnt look like some scared rabbit darting around the field. I have counted Ramsey taking 18 steps on a 3 step drop when he wasnt under any pressure. 3 steps back then he chopped his feet all around for about 4 seconds before making a bad, off balance throw.

Campbell is the best of the 3, he looked VERY and I mean VERY calm in the pocket, and this will help his accuracy when hes our starter next year (fingers crossed)

[Ghost of]

Nibbs, in case you haven't heard, Mark Brunell is the new starter.

Live with it, and stop the madness. Most of us are just glad Ramsey is benched. It does not mean we are happy about Brunell starting. It just means we think he is the lessor of two evils AT THIS TIME. I hope Jason comes along quick, and get's his chance before years end. I truly hope we are looking for a new second, and third string QB by seasons end. It's obvious neither of those guys are very good.

And what did I say in the first paragraph of this post. Deal with the video analysis and my REASONS for being uncomfortable or don't. If you posted a counter or said, "hey, I feel ya buddy, but unfortunately we can't do anything about it" then that would be fine.

I am quite painfully aware of who is the new starter. And this goes for fansince and Dane too:

Before I begin, I want any of you who groaned at the thread title to stop reading (or don’t, it’s not my problem) but if you stay DO NOT WHINE in this thread. One thing this forum needs less of is someone chiming in on a thread just to tell the originating poster that it’s not needed or is redundant, EVEN in cases where it clearly is not.

I said in the beginning to respect the intent and spirit of the post. I don't think it's right that some people on this board think they are entitled to come in and try to stifle debate, rather than either STAY AWAY or post something meaningful.

[Ghost of]

Brunell at least sets his feet right and doesnt look like some scared rabbit darting around the field. I have counted Ramsey taking 18 steps on a 3 step drop when he wasnt under any pressure. 3 steps back then he chopped his feet all around for about 4 seconds before making a bad, off balance throw.

Campbell is the best of the 3, he looked VERY and I mean VERY calm in the pocket, and this will help his accuracy when hes our starter next year (fingers crossed)

Yet another falsehood. Sorry, review the tape. Brunell is the one who takes more steps per drop than Ramsey. ramsey appears to take the normal amount of steps in his DROP(chop steps forward is not a BAD thing, you may be confusing the two)

[Underwater Ally]

PR isn't as serviceable as MB due to the habitual turnovers. In the attempt to salvage the season by conservative planning, MB will have to do.

This season needs to be salvaged FROM conservative game planning. With our O-line and recievers I'd rather go down firing the ball downfield than dinking and dunking and punting.

2004 - NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!

Good post Nibbs, thanks for the research!

[Prosperity]

A thorough and precise analysis, and what do the MB koolaid drinkers have to say? Nothing more than the usual, they just ignore the content and say deal with it.

[Underwater Ally]

Campbell is the best of the 3, he looked VERY and I mean VERY calm in the pocket, and this will help his accuracy when hes our starter next year (fingers crossed)

Easy to be calm when you've never dealt with a pass rush from a starting NFL defense. Ramsey looked very calm his rookie season too, even when defenders only a second away from decking him. Amazing how the anti-ramsey group salavates over everything they see from another quarterback in preseason, but they absolutely refuse to be objective. Campbell threw two pics against the Ravens camp fodder and obviously just couldn't read the coverage very well. He has a ways to go.

[Pete]

First and foremost, I'm fully support Brunell. I have no choice, I'm a Skins fan and would never wish any of our players do do poorly.

Good post Ghost, and I agree on many points. I think you would get more insight to why Mark drops back the way he does by looking to the past..................................Sherman................Mr Peabody...........fire up the Way back machine

His early years in the league tell a lot................

Mark was a very mobile QB, and often threw on the run. He was also known to run with the ball a lot. As much as McNabb did a few seasons ago. It drove Caughlin nuts back then, and Mark suffered some knee and leg injuries over those seasons. He had good speed for a big guy, and could sprint up from his deep drops and gain yards when there was nothing down the field. He was one tough SOB, and didn't slide down often taking huge hits. He's never been a pocket passer, which is what he needs to be now for the Skins for the most part. We have the line to support that style of QB.

I'm not saying he needs to stand in like a statue and get pummeled, but a mind set that those mobile days are long gone would help. It seems to me to be a habbit that is deep rooted, and effecting his play now.

I also think he knows he's a solid hit away from retirement, adding to the problem.