What Gibbs is Really Doing

[TheDane]

Holy crap, AJ, you are a bulldog about this. We get it. You don't understand why Gibbs did it, it makes no sense to you, it made you angry, you can't imagine what reason he'd have to play Brunell over Ramsey, so you're throwing out ideas that justify your feelings. For the love of god man, we understand.

Just take a deep breath and hate on Dallas.

And remember, there is a big difference between badmouthing Ramsey and stating facts that may have lead to Gibbs' decision. Ramsey is a great guy, and I'd love for him to be the answer at QB. I really would.

[AJ_Skins]

As a true believer and a Fan this is not what I need to keep my faith in. Personally all I need is that Gibbs is looking to win first and foremost. I trust that when Ramsey starts showing a better ability to manage the team (Not throw the damn football, but manage the team on the field), he will come back in at QB, because only then will he become the QB that gives us a better chance to win.

Personally I don't think Gibbs was looking for an excuse to pull Ramsey. I think what Gibbs saw was a change in the overall feel of the offensive team when Brunell took over after the injury. Things settled down a bit more, after Brunell entered the huddle and seemed to run a bit more smoothly. No, not fancy, not amazing.. just smooth, time draining, mistake free, football. He liked what he saw and decided to let it play out for the game. He reviewed the game tape and saw it again, and knew this was what he had to do.

This is what happened in the preseason of 2004 (Ok we'll call it less mistake filled for that time) It's what he felt when all the chaos going on, on that side of the ball last season (which is why I believe Brunell stayed in so long), and it's what was soo apparent during this preseason, that ever mediot, fan and bystander noticed. Brunell does soo much more then just throw the ball, which is why Gibbs seems so "in love" with this guy. He can calm down a huddle, see more and react better before and immediately after the snap. He can communicate with the team better, and probably can communicate with Gibbs so much better. All of this is just as important as how the QB throws the ball.

He knows Ramsey has the better arm, and knows if Ramsey can figure out how to become a better field general, Gibbs will hand the reigns back to him faster then you can say Boo. I mean in the end.. what did Ramsey really do for us last year? He only won three games, two of which, if we didn't win.. we would have been the worst in the NFL. One, of course, the vikings game, which is exactly the reason why Gibbs named Ramsey the starter for this year. It was that game where Ramsey really started to show something of a sense of leadership. Recovering from 2 interceptions, and leaning enough on the running of Betts and the Defense, to win the game we were suppose to lose. Who knows what happened to him in the off-season, and if someone tells me the Campbell drafting shook him.. then I'd say if that was all it took to ruin Ramsey.. I don't want him at the helm.

If that's all there is to it, we're in trouble, because of what it says about Gibbs's thinking, and because of how Brunell has played since he's been here.

[FBChick]

But see...if that's what you think, how do you explain naming Ramsey the starter, going through a whole preseason without making a change, and then doing it in the first half of the first regular season game? If that's all there was to it, it would mean Gibbs is indecisive and impulsive, and those are two things I've never heard mentioned in the same breath with the words "Joe Gibbs"...

No it means Gibbs was

A) Praying Ramsey would wake up and find that play he had at the end of last year. I don't doubt Gibb's knows that Ramsey can take us farther then Brunell, but only if he can play like he did those last 4 games (Ok maybe not the Dallas game, But..) You know that Eagles game that we came so close to almost winning? The niners game where we began dominating the possesion time? And last but not least.. that Vikings game.

Thought maybe declaring him the undisputed starter dispite what was going on around him, may keep Ramsey from getting over antsy to "prove" himself... which is when he seems to fall apart.

[AJ_Skins]

Holy crap, AJ, you are a bulldog about this. We get it. You don't understand why Gibbs did it, it makes no sense to you, it made you angry, you can't imagine what reason he'd have to play Brunell over Ramsey, so you're throwing out ideas that justify your feelings. For the love of god man, we understand.

Just take a deep breath and hate on Dallas.

And remember, there is a big difference between badmouthing Ramsey and stating facts that may have lead to Gibbs' decision. Ramsey is a great guy, and I'd love for him to be the answer at QB. I really would.

One thing I want to make clear...I'm not a "fan" of Ramsey in any personal sense (not that I think he's a bad guy)...I'm not "rooting" for him because I like him personally. I am absolutely convinced, however, that he of the three QBs on the roster, there is no other choice. Right now, I'm waiting for Brunell to prove me wrong on Monday Night. If he does, I'll be waiting all season for the other shoe to drop, which is Brunell either getting injured or worn out down the stretch. Until that happens, I'm going with this view, because that's the only way I can have any hope about this season.

[FBChick]

If that's all there is to it, we're in trouble, because of what it says about Gibbs's thinking, and because of how Brunell has played since he's been here.

Please explain what this means about Gibb's thinking?

And all Gibb's care about is how Brunell is playing now.. which is "smarter", more team oriented football

[AJ_Skins]

Please explain what this means about Gibb's thinking?

And all Gibb's care about is how Brunell is playing now.. which is "smarter", more team oriented football

How do you go back to Brunell that quickly after how he played last year? HOW? :doh:

[TheDane]

How do you go back to Brunell that quickly after how he played last year? HOW? :doh:

You answer your own question. Because it was last year, and he's hopeful that all of the changes that have occurred since then will make Brunell a better player. And I believe him.

[AJ_Skins]

You answer your own question. Because it was last year, and he's hopeful that all of the changes that have occurred since then will make Brunell a better player. And I believe him.

If that's true, my confidence in his decision making has taken a massive hit. I'm trying to come up with another explanation.

[TheDane]

If that's true, my confidence in his decision making has taken a massive hit. I'm trying to come up with another explanation.

:laugh:

Seriously, you don't think that circumstances are different? What with the hammy and the o-line/WR personnel changes?

That's fine. If you're looking for ideas, talk to ASF, he probably has a few good conspiracy theories.

[AJ_Skins]

:laugh:

Seriously, you don't think that circumstances are different? What with the hammy and the o-line/WR personnel changes?

Yep, you're right.

:koolaid:

:puke:

[FBChick]

How do you go back to Brunell that quickly after how he played last year? HOW? :doh:

Well let's remember everything from last year.

1st - We switched centers after game two when Friedman couldn't snap and protect without fumbling (Let's be brutally honest.. those fumbles will pinned to Brunnell were much more Friedman

2nd - Then we switched to a center who could get the snap off, but wasn't the best blocker, which force the Guards to cover down a bit.. something everyone had to adapt to after the switch.

3rd - Then there is the TE issue (you know that other position that protects the QB in a Gibb's offense). We went through two TE before settling on Royal, who actually took a couple of games before his blocking actually got to it's current level.

4th - Please remember it was Sellers playing H-back more then Cooley. Cooley didn't start surging until what.. the 4th or 5th game?

5th - Don't make me revisit how long it took all our receivers to figure out how to hold on to more then half the catchable passes.

Now this year -

1) Rabach at center. Good snaps, great blocking. No need to scheme double teaming as much to protect the center.

2) Jansen Back - Between Jansen and Rabach.. there's a running game we can lean on, and more time for the QB. Any QB should have improved.. yet Ramsey didn't really make any forward progress.

3) TE and H-back are settled and solid. Second year in a system they both have excelled in. I don't see any drop from Cooley, and Royal's blocking actually looks improved even more.

4) Receivers catching passes.. not to mention finding seperation and being able to gain yards after the catch.

5) So far no sign of slow down in the defense.. meaning 14 points may just win some games and 21 pretty much assures it. We don't need lights out down field gambles.

Now if Brunell really does look as bad Monday night as he did after the 4th game of last season, then yes.. Switching was a mistake. But he did not look that bad against the bears. He looked just like he looked during the preseason. He never did anything lights out in preseason either.. just smart football

[AJ_Skins]

Well let's remember everything from last year.

1st - We switched centers after game two when Friedman couldn't snap and protect without fumbling (Let's be brutally honest.. those fumbles will pinned to Brunnell were much more Friedman

2nd - Then we switched to a center who could get the snap off, but wasn't the best blocker, which force the Guards to cover down a bit.. something everyone had to adapt to after the switch.

3rd - Then there is the TE issue (you know that other position that protects the QB in a Gibb's offense). We went through two TE before settling on Royal, who actually took a couple of games before his blocking actually got to it's current level.

4th - Please remember it was Sellers playing H-back more then Cooley. Cooley didn't start surging until what.. the 4th or 5th game?

5th - Don't make me revisit how long it took all our receivers to figure out how to hold on to more then half the catchable passes.

Now this year -

1) Rabach at center. Good snaps, great blocking. No need to scheme double teaming as much to protect the center.

2) Jansen Back - Between Jansen and Rabach.. there's a running game we can lean on, and more time for the QB. Any QB should have improved.. yet Ramsey didn't really make any forward progress.

3) TE and H-back are settled and solid. Second year in a system they both have excelled in. I don't see any drop from Cooley, and Royal's blocking actually looks improved even more.

4) Receivers catching passes.. not to mention finding seperation and being able to gain yards after the catch.

5) So far no sign of slow down in the defense.. meaning 14 points may just win some games and 21 pretty much assures it. We don't need lights out down field gambles.

Now if Brunell really does look as bad Monday night as he did after the 4th game of last season, then yes.. Switching was a mistake. But he did not look that bad against the bears. He looked just like he looked during the preseason. He never did anything lights out in preseason either.. just smart football

If we had done exactly what we did against the Bears against almost any other team, we would have lost.

9 points.

9 points.

9 points.

[AzSkinsFan63]

I think Brunell is better than last season..

Whether it gets a win on Monday Night or not remains to be seen.

This isn't let's play a head game with Ramsey. The guy ain't listening when it comes to turning the ball over. If he gets back in it's because Brunell is injured or plays like last season and the fans can't stand it again.

the quote that Gibbs said about someone stepping up and taking lead of the team was for Brunell, and that is JG's expectation.

Even if Brunell looks half decent it will take quite a few losses before he thinks about Ramsey again..

[thinker]

AJ, As a starting point I will direct you to Thinker's Revised History of Ramsey and Gibbs

I have to say that I just sincerely doubt that Gibbs is playing any games. This isn't his first choice. He would have loved for PR to take over the team and lead it to the playoffs. He has seen enough to conclude that is not going to happen. Will PR play again? Who knows. I sure hope not because that would mean that Brunell got hurt or was ineffective. Could he play again? Sure if the aforementioned happens and the Skins are still in contention and Gibbs does not believe that Campbell is ready to play.

I just don't think that it's any more complicated than that. Gibbs knows Brunell is not the long term solution. He would love for it to be PR. He has given him every chance he believes that he can. He has seen that the switch in PR's head hasn't been flipped and he isn't sure it ever will. Move on.

[FBChick]

.. but let's remember this game correctly. First drive.. dead by a Ramsey Interception. Only one trip to the redzone that didn't convert (Grated I'll give you the whole Cooley penlty, followed by the clothes line was not entirely Ramsey, but the drivce still faltered)

Brunell did lead three scoring drives that won the game. And that was with no real practice with the starters in practice.. with a game plan designed for Ramsey.

I do agree that there is a problem with punching it into the endzone.. and I believe that failing is squarely on Gibbs and the game plan. It didn't go in with Ramsey and it didn't go in with Brunell. But I don't understand how we can be so defensive of Ramsey's play with two fumbles, an interception and two sacks in one quarter, over a nullified interception, 1 sack, no fumbles and three scoring drives in three.

[Spaceman Spiff]

If we had done exactly what we did against the Bears against almost any other team, we would have lost.

9 points.

9 points.

9 points.

AJ, i saw in one of your numerous other posts on this topic that you don't want to count Ramseys relief stint in the Giants game last year (the same argument EVERY Ramsey supporter comes up with, that for some dumb reason the stats from that game have to be thrown out) but want to look at Brunells relief performance in the Bears game and point to a lack of points.

So we can detract ramseys interception riddled performance but we have to analyze the lack of points in brunells playing time?

[SamSneed36]

How many threads have you made now that are all basically the same AJ? We are all aware that after Brunell's season last year you would never give him another chance ever again because he was so bad in that one year. Makes ya wonder why you wanna give Ramsey more chances. People have off years, for one reason or another. Brunell has shown in every chance he has had since last season that he can lead this offense down the field. TD's will come very soon, its just a matter of better execution and play calling in the endzone. This offesnse has all the potential in the world, and I atleast have seen it come a loooong way since last year as far as fundamentals. For once we are making progress on the whole, but admittedly the QB situation is precarious at best. We'll just have to see how Brunell does against a good team in a high pressure game. I for one beleive he can do it.

[Spaceman Spiff]

How many threads have you made now that are all basically the same AJ? We are all aware that after Brunell's season last year you would never give him another chance ever again because he was so bad in that one year. Makes ya wonder why you wanna give Ramsey more chances. People have off years, for one reason or another. Brunell has shown in every chance he has had since last season that he can lead this offense down the field. TD's will come very soon, its just a matter of better execution and play calling in the endzone. This offesnse has all the potential in the world, and I atleast have seen it come a loooong way since last year as far as fundamentals. For once we are making progress on the whole, but admittedly the QB situation is precarious at best. We'll just have to see how Brunell does against a good team in a high pressure game. I for one beleive he can do it.

:applause:

[Guest amaprius]

Well let's remember everything from last year.

1st - We switched centers after game two when Friedman couldn't snap and protect without fumbling (Let's be brutally honest.. those fumbles will pinned to Brunnell were much more Friedman

True but we still have no real backup C to Rabach....plenty of concern there.

2nd - Then we switched to a center who could get the snap off, but wasn't the best blocker, which force the Guards to cover down a bit.. something everyone had to adapt to after the switch.

We still have the same guy....see 1st...

3rd - Then there is the TE issue (you know that other position that protects the QB in a Gibb's offense). We went through two TE before settling on Royal, who actually took a couple of games before his blocking actually got to it's current level.

Royal still needs to step up a bit with blocking...

4th - Please remember it was Sellers playing H-back more then Cooley. Cooley didn't start surging until what.. the 4th or 5th game?

Cooley is great but unfortunately we still have Sellers....need to upgrade there.

5th - Don't make me revisit how long it took all our receivers to figure out how to hold on to more then half the catchable passes.

Let us pray the speedsters prove themselves better than the last bunch.

Now this year -

1) Rabach at center. Good snaps, great blocking. No need to scheme double teaming as much to protect the center.

See 1st....

2) Jansen Back - Between Jansen and Rabach.. there's a running game we can lean on, and more time for the QB. Any QB should have improved.. yet Ramsey didn't really make any forward progress.

Not for long possibly....2 broken thumbs

3) TE and H-back are settled and solid. Second year in a system they both have excelled in. I don't see any drop from Cooley, and Royal's blocking actually looks improved even more.

Sellers is still here and Royal is alot better but we could use an upgrade there.

4) Receivers catching passes.. not to mention finding seperation and being able to gain yards after the catch.

Prove that....How many yards did Patten gain last wk? Moss was great. No other receiver was.

5) So far no sign of slow down in the defense.. meaning 14 points may just win some games and 21 pretty much assures it. We don't need lights out down field gambles.

But we do need an offense if we want to last in the playoffs...if we get there.

Now if Brunell really does look as bad Monday night as he did after the 4th game of last season, then yes.. Switching was a mistake. But he did not look that bad against the bears. He looked just like he looked during the preseason. He never did anything lights out in preseason either.. just smart football

If? Brunell will be pulled for Ramsey this week when we cant score a TD for the 2nd game in a row and our speedsters only get 5 yard passes thrown there way and we lose to the Cowpukes in the last few seconds because of Gibbs' outdated conservative offense.

[PCS]

If we had done exactly what we did against the Bears against almost any other team, we would have lost.

9 points.

9 points.

9 points.

Cripes AJ. There is some damn fine football talk going here that goes beyond the normal rhetoric and the best you can do is that? Though possibly true, could it be that maybe against Dallas the Skins won't play the same way? Based on some of the posts here plus what we know about gameplanning, I think it's safe to say no. Since we're doing that assumption thing figure that has to be safe as well.

[SamSneed36]

If we had done exactly what we did against the Bears against almost any other team, we would have lost.

9 points.

9 points.

9 points.

Considereing how we played last year and the last how ever many years I think its foolish to expect the offense to have its breakout game on opening day. Just be a little more patient

[AJ_Skins]

Cripes AJ. There is some damn fine football talk going here that goes beyond the normal rhetoric and the best you can do is that? Though possibly true, could it be that maybe against Dallas the Skins won't play the same way? Based on some of the posts here plus what we know about gameplanning, I think it's safe to say no. Since we're doing that assumption thing figure that has to be safe as well.

I don't believe Brunell can do it on Monday Night. Even if he does put together a good game or two, I don't believe he can do it for an entire season. Campbell is not an option. Therefore, the move makes no sense to me. Not as quickly as it happened. I think the team we have, with the schedule we have, is easily capable of making the playoffs this year, but not until we get stability at quarterback. I don't believe it's going to come from Brunell. I'm prepard to be proven wrong, but I am extremely doubtful. I want to win. This move looks like a major step backwards on many levels.

[B.A.M.F.]

I think AJ has some good points, but takes it too far. Is it a ploy to get PR to play better? No. Does Gibbs think that MB is the better of the two at the moment? Yes. Does Gibbs hope that some tough love will snap PR into more focused play and get him to improve? You bet ya.

I don't think it was a planned thing, I think he saw what was going on and did what he had to do to give us a chance in the next few games. I also think he hopes to all heck that PR steps up and plays like we know he should be able to, and that this "ploy" will help.

Nose to the grindstone Patrick, we may need you later on!

[panel]

Well, then I'd have something to hope for.

[JimmiJo]

You realize you're in the minority, right? And you realize that it if was just a change, that would be one thing...it's the timing and the abruptness of it that has people dumbfounded.

I do not realize I'm in the minority. Additionally, I do not understand why people believe the following:

1 - Ramsey is owed something

2 - We are owed an accounting of Gibb's thought processes

There is an old saying with which I agree: all debts are settled on payday. Art asked a great question on redskins.com - If you who disagree with Gibbs and are truly disappointed with the manner in which he conducted this situation, why are you not also equally upset about the release of Antonio Brown?

As for you AJ, I always seek what you call the lowest common denominator, however I prefer to call it the very essence of an argument. Ramsey is owed just as much as the other 50 some-odd players on the team, no more, no less. In this instance he did not perform, of this there is little question.

The question I pose to you is: Who on Planet Earth is most entitled to make a decision concerning the Redskins starting quarterback? And I mean this in a legal, ethical, and moral sense. In other words, in every way that you can measure it.

If you reach the conclusion that it is Joe Gibbs (as I do), who is the coach of the team, then I would ask what his prime directive is? What is he primarily tasked to do? What is his fundimental mission, that which supercedes all else? Is it not to win ball games?

And if he believes that switching his quarterback raises the probability this will occur? And what if he reaches the conclusion that allowing the quarterback to remain in the game jeapordizes the team's ability to achieve the mission? What should he do then?

If treating PR in the manner some suggest was necessary was not in conflict with his primary mission, he would have done so (I believe). If treating PR in the manner some suggest necessary jeapordizes the primary mission, then I would be appalled if he did anything less than make the switch.

What say you?