NoCalMike Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 This is my biggest concern. Ok for the sake of not arguing who is starting next week, lets just say Ramsey is not playing next week because of precautionary reasons having to do with his neck injury. Now, lets say we start the game out and Portis is having a good night rushing in the first quarter. My question is, when adjustments are made, and the box is stacked to neutralize Portis, Can Brunell beat the Defense with his arm, or will we continue to see these sideline passes for three yards get thrown where it is all up to the Wide Receiver to juke and jive for a five or so yard gain. Now sure, maybe Brunell never throws a pick, and his ability to run out of bounds stops a sack or two, but what is the tradeoff? Is an Interception still the end of the world if the QB can come back from it and throw 2-3 TD passes later in the game, or is still better to have a QB that can't move the ball down the field, but won't throw an INT? I remember last season quite well, and for all the mobility Brunell is said to have, I saw him get sacked plenty, and a couple of them ended up as fumbles returned for TDs. Maybe this last thought was a cheapshot on Brunell, but I just don't feel confident with him when we need passes longer then five yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayAction Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 I don't know about you but I've seen a difference in his play from last season to this one. The "experts" say that his passes are stronger and he's more mobile because his hamstring injury is fully healed. He connected on a couple intermediate throws. The 3yard passes are not his fault - - blame that on the play calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuels Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Brunell can't win us games againest stacked 8 man fronts unless Portis does very well. I don't see where he is much improved his arm is fine when he has great protection. I don't think last years struggles are from a hammy injury thats a cop out. Brunell won't hold the ball againest the blitz for the big play, he gets it out at 1st chance almost like he's afraid to get hit. I've rewatched todays game and everything Brunell did looked like last year to me even Gibbs playcalling. Running that ball on that 3rd down at the end was gutless by coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 No. He cant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 I love Ramsey but when has he ever thrown 3 TD passes "later in the game"? My honest opinion is that they both have strengths and weaknesses but we can win with either QB. You people need to relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLiverpool Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 I think with Patten and Moss either QB has a better chance of winning with their arm. I enjoyed Patten and Moss, Moss had some solid yards and I don't remember a lot of balls hitting the receivers in the hands and having them drop them... though I think Royal dropped one like that(can't remember at the moment)... The Skins will need to get vertical to score more points... and Portis running well certainly helps that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCdemolition Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 hopefully we'll never find out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 No...Brunnell doesnt play the game to win. We wont beat many teams with him playing not to lose. If Ramsey cant play next week, we are in serious trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtyler42 Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Did anybody really watch the game? What deep passes did Ramsey complete? I think his longest pass in the air was like 14-15yds that Moss took for the rest...Brunell actually had a longer pass in the air to Cooley, and the pass to Moss that was intercepted would have been caught if he had not been pulled off stride by the CB hence the PI call... What is actually ailing this offense is the play-calling still...We can win with either QB, but Gibbs just needs to loosen the reigns on this offense and let it go...Why when we ran the ball so well today didnt we run very many play-action passes? PA is a QB's best friend for getting the ball downfield b/c the PA fake occupies both the LB's and S long enough to get WR's and TE's behind them... I really dont care who plays QB b/c they are all about equal right now, but I do care about Gibbs being so conservative w/his calls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LWC Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 His arm strenght isn't the problem. He appears in better health, and there is more zip on the ball compared to last year. I agree with the previous posters about playcalling. I hate that 1 yard hitch pass that we run. It would be one thing if we do that to set the team up for a big play, but we don't do that. I think Brunell, IF he is tabbed to start, will do better then most of the haters believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 His arm strenght isn't the problem. He appears in better health, and there is more zip on the ball compared to last year. I agree with the previous posters about playcalling. I hate that 1 yard hitch pass that we run. It would be one thing if we do that to set the team up for a big play, but we don't do that. I think Brunell, IF he is tabbed to start, will do better then most of the haters believe. Actually I think a lot of people will be happy to see Brunnell start. Unfortunatley, most of them live in Denver though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLusby Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 hopefully we'll never find out! This is what makes me sick! Who cares who plays QB, as long as we get the "W"? MB has played well this year and is clearly a healed veteran. We have Extremeskin fan's who favor one player over another because he is "due" a chance. BS! MB has played better ball, period! Why are there not arguments whether LA (our highest paid player) doesn't start over Holdman? The reason possibly is that LA (like Ramsey) makes boneheaded plays and freelances to much while Holdman gets the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 In 3 quarters Brunell completed 8 of 14 passes for 70 yards. Out of those 8 completions 5 were to WRs for a staggering 34 yards! Clearly Mark Brunell is capable of providing us with the big plays Gibbs had been talking about all offseason. Brunell will be our savior! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSteve Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 It is not, Can Brunell Beat Defenses with his Arm? But rather, Can Brunell consistently beat Defenses with his Arm? If you can answer the latter affirmatively then I would love to hear your reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlantaskin Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 I think that the Ramsey / Brunell saga is emblematic of an overall philosophical dilema Gibbs is having right now. On the one hand, Gibbs was very successful during his first reign running an offense that was geared toward smashmouth football and allowed for the occassional big play because defenses had to respect the run. In that offense, it was really the QBs job not to lose the game by making bad decisions, but to take advantge of the big play when there. But the game has changed. The successful teams now are more agressive on offensive and often take more chances in the passing game. In today's game--and I think that Gibbs knows this--you have to be a bit of a gun-slinger. It's almost as if the pass sets up the run. I think we all know which QB fits which game (particularly at this stage of their careers). Gibbs probably knows that Ramsey's arm strength gives him a better chance to win in today's NFL. But Gibbs's comfort zone is with Brunell, the veteran who isn't going to lose the game and is more about managing the game. I want to give Gibbs the benefit of the doubt. But today's game really proved to me that Brunell has neither the physical ability nor the confidence in his ability to lead a high octane offense. Brunell did what a good backup should--manage the game not to lose. But to take the 'Skins to the next level (and beat Dallas next week), I think that we need Ramsey in there. Hopefully Gibbs will be willing to go outside of his comfort zone and roll the dice with Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LWC Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 It just seemed to me that neither QB was throwing the ball deep downfield. Someone correct me if I"m wrong here, but the farthest thrown ball may have been a Ramsey throw down the seam. It was overthrown. When watching on TV, it appeared that if it wasn't overthrown, it may have been a close play or INT because there was a safety deep who was in position to help. Argue QB's all day, but I still don't like the playcalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EberKain Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Burnell was a hell of a passer in carolina, and he was injured last year. Gibbs said it in the post-game today. He said the trainers told him brunell would be out 4-6 weeks and brunell came to gibbs and said he could play (he did with a 60 rating). A big part of his ability is to scramble and make plays, and if you cant step into a throw, you cant make good throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 A good team doesn't beat an opposing D on a QB's arm alone. This is an unrealistic question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Ramsey's 52 yard completion to Moss looked pretty good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Ramsey's 52 yard completion to Moss looked pretty good to me. You mean Moss' RAC not Ramsey's throw. Gibbs decided to play it short when Mark was in and it opened up the running lanes for Portis. If you go and rewatch the game when Mark was in there he lead us on some drives, and it was very effecient. He threw it deep on 2 passes and his arm looked good on both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlantaskin Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 It's not just about how far someone can throw it, but the zip that a guy can put on it. Ramsey exhibited a real live arm with his throws on at least two of the three third down conversions he made. I haven't seen Brunell really whiz one over the middle the way Ramsey has. I would agree with the questions regarding play calling. I think this goes back to my earlier post about offensive philosophy. If Gibbs would embrace Ramsey and his strong arm, he might be more inclined to open it up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Gibbs must be a complete moron searching for a way to complete more 20+ yard plays when all he has to do is throw short to open up the running game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 It's not just about how far someone can throw it, but the zip that a guy can put on it. Ramsey exhibited a real live arm with his throws on at least two of the three third down conversions he made. I haven't seen Brunell really whiz one over the middle the way Ramsey has.I would agree with the questions regarding play calling. I think this goes back to my earlier post about offensive philosophy. If Gibbs would embrace Ramsey and his strong arm, he might be more inclined to open it up a bit. No one here is saying Mark has stronger arm, Pat has a cannon. The one thing Mark can do that Pat can not is put touch on it. Pat is great for the rocket throws but he isn't great on getting over the WR's shoulder on deep routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlantaskin Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 No one here is saying Mark has stronger arm, Pat has a cannon. The one thing Mark can do that Pat can not is put touch on it. Pat is great for the rocket throws but he isn't great on getting over the WR's shoulder on deep routes. Well, I tend to agree, but I think that Ramsey showed great touch on his pass to Moss that went for a big gain after the catch. I think your statement would have been 100% accurate last year, but I'm not so sure this year. I think Pat has improved quite a bit in this area of his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Well, I tend to agree, but I think that Ramsey showed great touch on his pass to Moss that went for a big gain after the catch. I think your statement would have been 100% accurate last year, but I'm not so sure this year. I think Pat has improved quite a bit in this area of his game. He was way off on that one deep play where the WR was open for the TD. Like always Ramsey had flashes today, but he just hasn't shown to be consistent. I wish he would play well not just for any future here with the skins. Even though I think he is gone anyway, even if the skins offer him money, but he needs to prove to the entire NFL that he can start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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