Military's Recruiting Troubles Extend to Affluent War Supporters

[chomerics]

As for my contention that many/most lower income enlistees support Bush, I get that from two things. One is the self evident fact that people who don't support Bush or are against the war don't enlist in mliitary service that could very well send them to that war. The other is that in my role as a military instructor, the vast majority of my students voice support of Bush. Granted, that is only anecdotal evidence, but it is nevertheless valid.

Here are the demographics concerning the 2004 election

VOTE BY INCOME

***************BUSH KERRY

Under $15,000 (8%) 36% 63%

$15-30,000 (15%) 42% 57%

$30-50,000 (22%) 49% 50%

$50-75,000 (23%) 56% 43%

$75-100,000 (14%) 55% 45%

$100-150,000 (11%) 57% 42%

$150-200,000 (4%) 58% 42%

$200,000 or More (3%) 63% 35%

source

People making under 50K voted for Kerry and people making over 50K voted for Bush. As the income rises, so does the % of people voting for Bush. Can we at least agree on this?

Now, for your premise, you need to generate data for your analysis to be valid, just saying it is true from your observations holds absolutely no water. I can say anything I want to, but it doesn't make it correct, in this case, I used statistical evidence to back up my claim.

If you do profess that inlisted servicemen are from the low income bracket, but from the minority 38% of the low income bracket, then I want to see proof, because just saying it means nothing. The statistics lead to credence of my analysis. Saying it is so means about as much to me as when ND posts the "liberl left wing media".

[chomerics]

How you choose to define "democrat" doesn't change anything I wrote. (Unless you were to try to tell me that "democrat" = "pro Bush", which I probably wouldn't believe no matter how hard you tried to convince me of it!)

The reason I posted this is because everyone who didn't vote for Bush is a democrat in NDs eyes. I know a lot of strict republicans who voted for Kerry for various reasons, but this does not make them democrats anymore then it makes me a smurff.

[airborneskins]

Chom, to be fair, I was an E-6 in the Army, and I was in the low-income bracket (under 40,000). I (being an E-6) made more than most enlisted soldiers. So I know that it doesn't mean squat to you, but, He does have a point. And as I am sure that you can guess, I did vote for GWB.

edit.. This link is generic for the service.. But it will show taht they are under the 50,000 mark that you referred too.

http://www.military.com/Resources/ResourcesContent/0,13964,49020,00.html

[chomerics]

Chom, to be fair, I was an E-6 in the Army, and I was in the low-income bracket (under 40,000). I (being an E-6) made more than most enlisted soldiers. So I know that it doesn't mean squat to you, but, He does have a point. And as I am sure that you can guess, I did vote for GWB.

edit.. This link is generic for the service.. But it will show taht they are under the 50,000 mark that you referred too.

http://www.military.com/Resources/ResourcesContent/0,13964,49020,00.html

I understand that military people vote republican more then democrat, but when you look at the demographics, and the study done, it says that money is a major factor in recruitment, not party affiliation. All I was looking for was a demographic type statistic of military voters concerning pay and party affiliation. For example, I know that officers vote for the republican almost 4:1, but I also know the military vote is around 60% republican, so the statistics should even out.

Again, I am not saying Blue's argument is not valid, I just want to see proof it is what he says it is.

[twa]

You know Chom you could easily take these stats

VOTE BY INCOME

***************BUSH KERRY

Under $15,000 (8%) 36% 63%

$15-30,000 (15%) 42% 57%

$30-50,000 (22%) 49% 50%

$50-75,000 (23%) 56% 43%

$75-100,000 (14%) 55% 45%

$100-150,000 (11%) 57% 42%

$150-200,000 (4%) 58% 42%

$200,000 or More (3%) 63% 35%

And make the argument that since the more educated you are ,the more money you make...SO,naturaly the only people that supported Kerry to a large degree were those TOO UNEDUCATED to know better.

I know that can't be TRUE :laugh:

Fact is stats can say just about anything you wish

[BlueTalon]

Here are the demographics concerning the 2004 election

VOTE BY INCOME

***************BUSH KERRY

Under $15,000 (8%) 36% 63%

$15-30,000 (15%) 42% 57%

$30-50,000 (22%) 49% 50%

$50-75,000 (23%) 56% 43%

$75-100,000 (14%) 55% 45%

$100-150,000 (11%) 57% 42%

$150-200,000 (4%) 58% 42%

$200,000 or More (3%) 63% 35%

source

People making under 50K voted for Kerry and people making over 50K voted for Bush. As the income rises, so does the % of people voting for Bush. Can we at least agree on this?

Now, for your premise, you need to generate data for your analysis to be valid, just saying it is true from your observations holds absolutely no water. I can say anything I want to, but it doesn't make it correct, in this case, I used statistical evidence to back up my claim.

If you do profess that inlisted servicemen are from the low income bracket, but from the minority 38% of the low income bracket, then I want to see proof, because just saying it means nothing. The statistics lead to credence of my analysis. Saying it is so means about as much to me as when ND posts the "liberl left wing media".

I don't have a problem with your stats, Chom, though I'd like to see the categories continue a few more steps. I do have a problem making the leap from the stats to statements like "People making under 50K voted for Kerry and people making over 50K voted for Bush." It's an absolute statement that the stats don't support.

Likewise, I will refrain from statements like "all people enlisting in the military are Bush supporters." I do stand by my previous statment that many/most enlistees now are Bush supporters. If you're looking for evidence, look no further than the Democrats in Florida in December, 2000. They worked very hard to get 15,000 military absentee ballots disqualified. Why? Because the military overwhelmingly votes Republican.

That was then. Since then, 9/11 happened, and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have happened. It's a bit counterintuitive to assert that since more lower income people vote democratic (and therefore align themselves more with the left), and since more enlistees are lower income, that therefore more people entering the military are democrats. Since democrats are mostly opposed to the war in Iraq, and since that's where most of the action is, and since soldiers don't get to pick where they go, it makes sense that democrats are enlisting less than they were before, when Democrats tried to disqualify military ballots because of their Republican tilt.

(On the basis of your statistics, you challenged my assertion that more Bush supporters enlist than non-Bush supporters. But looking at your stats, it isn't that much of a stretch. To know for sure, you'd need the raw numbers. I.e., how many people in the respective earnings categories were there, and compare that with the total number of people enlisting for whatever time period.)

To be honest, I don't have stats supporting my position, simply because I'm not motivated enough to try and find them. But stats alone don't necessarily tell the story. I said before that I don't have a problem with your stats. But until your stats are broken down further (geographically, education, military status, etc.), they don't do much good by themselves.