Tandler's right

[bubba9497]

http://redskins.scout.com/2/426940.html?refid=3652 (full article)

Despite Improvement, Ramsey Still Under Fire

Excerpts

First, you can’t yank the guy or even put the job up for grabs after two preseason games. Gibbs announced at the end of last season that the starting quarterback job was Ramsey’s, period. The team has been through minicamp, OTA’s, and two weeks of training camp. You don’t commit to a plan for that long and then, when things to a little bit wrong during two weeks of camp and a couple of exhibition games, throw it all out the widow. That’s not how you get an organization back on track.

Second, the view here is that things aren’t all that wrong. Ramsey did almost nothing right last week against Carolina. His errors, ranging from the interception on the opening drive to depriving his receivers of yards-after-catch opportunities by making them lunge for throws, were well chronicled here last week. Against the Bengals, Ramsey did a lot right. He averaged over ten yards per attempt and over 20 per completion. In the pocket, he was cool and calm. He developed some timing and rapport on deep passes with David Patten, going to the speedy wideout for 33 and 46 yards. He didn’t quite develop the same with Santana Moss, although on the first series Moss lost a potential TD pass from Ramsey in the lights. On several occasions, he threw a ball to a spot, the exact spot to which a receiver arrived at the moment the ball did.

His mechanics were much improved from the previous week. For the most part, Ramsey lost the “happy feet” he displayed against Carolina and had his feet set in the pocket as he delivered his passes. He also greatly reduced his tendency to tap the ball as he looked for a receiver, which speeded up his release.

It was a very good, perhaps even excellent, performance except for the interceptions.

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But, hey, this just in, quarterbacks throw interceptions. Three of them in two first halves of play is not an outrageous, unheard of event. As long as the quarterback is making some positive things happen

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Ramsey seems to be a quarterback who takes a while to get warmed up. He has a track record for doing better as the game went on. Last year, in his 21st through his 30th pass attempts in games, his quarterback rating was a cool 100.8 with three touchdowns, just one interception, 59% of his throws going for first downs, a 68% completion percentage and an average of 7.73 yards per attempt on 64 throws.

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he did show enough improvement from the first preseason game to the second to warrant a bit more optimism

[Om]

It's all about points, unfortunately. Moving the ball up and down between the 20's rocks for stats, but doesn't cut it in the W and L columns. If Pat had 3 or 4 TD's to go with those 3 INT's, we'd not be having this conversation.

That's what he needs to add to the mix over the next two weeks ...

[Califan007 The Constipated]

A calm and reasoned analysis of Ramsey's performance...I like it.

[SkinsNatsFan]

Maybe they need to have more rigorous warm ups for him before the game starts, so he's in mid-game form at the beginning of the game.

[GoDannyBoy]

Maybe they need to have more rigorous warm ups for him before the game starts, so he's in mid-game form at the beginning of the game.

Funny!

[Califan007 The Constipated]

It's all about points, unfortunately. Moving the ball up and down between the 20's rocks for stats, but doesn't cut it in the W and L columns. If Pat had 3 or 4 TD's to go with those 3 INT's, we'd not be having this conversation.

That's what he needs to add to the mix over the next two weeks ...

While the interception in the end zone did take points away, I'd like to think that in normal game conditions and with Portis part of the game plan, points would indeed more likely result when surrounded by the good things Ramsey was doing.

I remember last season's game against Detroit, where Gibbs had the team basically come out and run the entire second half...whatever was working (and Brunell was NOT working), whatever it took to win. I don't see Gibbs continuously calling down field shots from Ramsey like he did against the Bengals unless he's just on fire that game. If he's not, then more higher percentage shorter routes to keep the chains moving, in which Ramsey almost never throws interceptions (again, unlike the 2004 version of Brunell).

[dfbovey]

It was a decent performance without the interceptions... but he still threw the interceptions. Can't discount them as if they didn't happen. It's still disturbing to me that he makes poor judgements like he did this week.

[gridironmike]

His INT in the endzone this weekend and the one in the Philly game last year look awful familiar. He has got to get rid of it. How long does it take to learn that?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

It was a decent performance without the interceptions... but he still threw the interceptions. Can't discount them as if they didn't happen. It's still disturbing to me that he makes poor judgements like he did this week.

Were they poor judgements, or poor throws??...There's a difference between a QB throwing into triple coverage, and a QB underthrowing a receiver who's covered one-on-one and getting intercepted.

[goldenster95]

It's all about points, unfortunately. Moving the ball up and down between the 20's rocks for stats, but doesn't cut it in the W and L columns. If Pat had 3 or 4 TD's to go with those 3 INT's, we'd not be having this conversation.

That's what he needs to add to the mix over the next two weeks ...

That's the ultimate goal, points. But Tandler's point here is not only that Ramsey is doing things right now, he's actually making some improvement. That may have been a function of starting his first pre-season game against the Panthers and then shaking some cobwebs off to face a much less stellar defense in the Bengals. Whatever the case may be, he is showing some improvement, and that's the key.

As for points, remember that on Ramsey's second throw of the game, Moss missed a potential TD pass. And the lack of points came from drives that were not only solely geared towards a gameplan that had Ramsey throwing often, but also throwing long. That won't happen in the regular season. We'll not only have Ramsey mixing up his throws, but we'll also see a very heavy dose of Clinton Portis, who has been in absentia this pre-season. To hold him accountable for the lack of points now in an offense that won't resemble that which the 'Skins will sport in the regular season is really unfair.

The bottom line is that we'll just have to see. Ramsey is still learning, specifically learning to put air under the ball. When he tried to do that in the Bengal game, balls sailed on him. When he threw strikes, he was more accurate. Of course, Ramsey does need to learn how to put more touch on the ball, something he didn't do on his first throw. Had he done that, he would've had a TD pass to a wide open WR who had his defender beat by at least three steps.

[KevinMac]

Om is right. The only stat that really counts is points scored. You can be 8 for 9 on a drive for 78 yards, but if the one incompletion is an INT in the endzone you have gained absolutely nothing, despite the the 89% completion rate and near 9 YPA.

The issue isn't that Patrick is throwing interceptions. It's when and how that is the problem. His picks are the result of the same mistakes that caused INT's last year, mainly poor decisions. That is what concerns me.

He did do a lot better this week, but in football, two bad plays can completely cancel out all the good ones. You can't win the game by making a great pass, but you sure as heck can lose it by making a poor decision. In the age of parity, all it takes is one. While every QB makes mistakes, the frequency with which Pat makes the same ones is alarming.

His accuracy is not going to be an issue. I've thought for weeks now that he was missing so badly because he was attempting to throw with touch, essentially altering the way he has always played. He missed some again this week, but not as many and not nearly as bad. Right now it's all about the brain. If he learns to survey the field and not throw to a guy who is totally covered, this team will roll big time.

What bothers me is that he only has 3 weeks to do it.

[goldenster95]

Were they poor judgements, or poor throws??...There's a difference between a QB throwing into triple coverage, and a QB underthrowing a receiver who's covered one-on-one and getting intercepted.

The first was poor judgment. The second was a poor throw. Ramsey tried to put air under the ball and he lofted the pass over Thrash. If he zips it, it's complete. Same with that throw to Patten early in the game. He should've zipped the thing and he would've completed it to Patten.

On the flip side, and as set forth in my prior post, Ramsey should've put some air under the ball on his first throw. Had he done that, it's an easy six points on his first throw of the game.

Bottom line: Ramsey needs to learn not only how to put air under the ball, but when to do it.

[goldenster95]

Om is right. The only stat that really counts is points scored. You can be 8 for 9 on a drive for 78 yards, but if the one incompletion is an INT in the endzone you have gained absolutely nothing, despite the the 89% completion rate and near 9 YPA.

The issue isn't that Patrick is throwing interceptions. It's when and how that is the problem. His picks are the result of the same mistakes that caused INT's last year, mainly poor decisions. That is what concerns me.

He did do a lot better this week, but in football, two bad plays can completely cancel out all the good ones. You can't win the game by making a great pass, but you sure as heck can lose it by making a poor decision. In the age of parity, all it takes is one. While every QB makes mistakes, the frequency with which Pat makes the same ones is alarming.

His accuracy is not going to be an issue. I've thought for weeks now that he was missing so badly because he was attempting to throw with touch, essentially altering the way he has always played. He missed some again this week, but not as many and not nearly as bad. Right now it's all about the brain. If he learns to survey the field and not throw to a guy who is totally covered, this team will roll big time.

What bothers me is that he only has 3 weeks to do it.

Yes, Ramsey made a bad decision on his first throw, but keep in mind that he was operating a gameplan that won't be the plan in the regular season. No way do we rely on Ramsey that much to throw, much less throw long, and we'll have Portis to do some scoring for us.

[TheREALJBird]

I think there are some very good points in his article, Ramsey is still learning, the long ball was not a vital part of the offense last year so that's what Gibbs wants him to get used to. Last year was all about the short and intermediate range passes so Ramsey has a good sense of how to complete those throws. I think that Gibbs will continue to have Ramsey throw downfield in the preseason to get him more used to it, and of course when you throw downfield as often as he did, the room for error increases. All in all, I believe Ramsey had a solid performance, that throw to Thrash was not a good decision on his part but other than that there was much improvement over the first game

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Om is right. The only stat that really counts is points scored.

Not in the preseason, it isn't....

[Om]

My point was simply this: as of right now, after 2 preseason games, the one thing Pat has not accomplished is putting the ball in the end zone, and that will obviously have to change in the regular season if this team is going to be successful. There are a million reasons for what we've seen so far, and it's clear he's made big strides already in getting the ball downfield---the one thing EVERYBODY is looking to see. But the fact remains the TD-to-INT ratio ain't where we'd really like it to be after two weeks. Fair?

We won't know until the real games start how much of what we've seen so far---good AND bad---will carry over. So between now and then, in the two remaining exhibition games, the one thing we'd all REALLY like to see is a couple of nice finishes to the nice drives. No? If nothing else, it'll make us, and the team, one suspects, feel a whole lot more secure than many seem to feel at the moment.

[bubba9497]

bottom line it's pre-season.... the time to work through mistake practice and work on improving weakness. When trying to learn to do something a new or different way.... mistakes will happen but you learn from the mistakes to get it right.

Ramsey doesn't throw a lot of end zone ints. his TD to INT ratio as a starter is pretty good. and PR gets better as the game goes along, and is best in the 4th quarter.

People are overreacting to 2 ints in a pre-season game

[ArmchairRedskin]

Anytime you have a 1 to 3 TD to INT ratio, you gotta be a little concerned. However, as a large portion of the passes were designed to go down the field, I don't think the playcalling reflected any real game-time format as there was no Portis and we really didn't use Cooley. Patrick is capable of better as he showed us last year, and if you look at his overall TD/INT ratio, you'll notice it favors the TD side, if only slightly.

For comparison's sake, Peyton Manning threw 26 TD's and 23 INT's in his fourth season. While Pat is no Peyton, it does show you that even after 4 full years in a system, INT's happen. Playing time is the best way to acquire a comfort level in the pocket which in turns facitilates smart decision making.

I think the long ball still needs work, and it seems logical that that would be what was primarily focused on during these preseason practice games. What better way to get the recievers and QB on the same page as in a real live game situation where the outcome has no effect on the team's record?

We may have to take some lumps with Patrick, but we need to give him a fair shot. I'd be willing to ride the whole season out with him just to make sure of whether or not he's our guy. I mean unless he goes like 2-8 or something, we gotta let him find his groove and support the guy. That's how I see it, anyway.

[goldenster95]

Here's another point. If the deep ball is going to be part of our gameplan this year, will Brunell have enough juice to get the ball downfield? What happens when we're running multi-WR sets and pressure comes? Can Brunell use his arm strength alone to gun the ball downfield? Is his arm that strong now? If it isn't we'll have some problems with what we thought would be a pretty big part of our gameplan.

[Om]

bottom line it's pre-season.... the time to work through mistake practice and work on improving weakness. When trying to learn to do something a new or different way.... mistakes will happen but you learn from the mistakes to get it right.

Ramsey doesn't throw a lot of end zone ints. his TD to INT ratio as a starter is pretty good. and PR gets better as the game goes along, and is best in the 4th quarter.

People are overreacting to 2 ints in a pre-season game

Not all of us, bubba. Some are just doing what we do on ES: examining the key issues confronting the Redskins---in great detail, with great passion and from every conceivable angle---in real time.

It's the way of the world (wide web), circa 2005, brother. Embrace it.

[goldenster95]

My point was simply this: as of right now, after 2 preseason games, the one thing Pat has not accomplished is putting the ball in the end zone, and that will obviously have to change in the regular season if this team is going to be successful. There are a million reasons for what we've seen so far, and it's clear he's made big strides already in getting the ball downfield---the one thing EVERYBODY is looking to see. But the fact remains the TD-to-INT ratio ain't where we'd really like it to be after two weeks. Fair?

We won't know until the real games start how much of what we've seen so far---good AND bad---will carry over. So between now and then, in the two remaining exhibition games, the one thing we'd all REALLY like to see is a couple of nice finishes to the nice drives. No? If nothing else, it'll make us, and the team, one suspects, feel a whole lot more secure than many seem to feel at the moment.

There's definitely cause for concern here, Om. But it's too early to draw conclusions on Ramsey right now. You can dissect certain plays, however. And his first INT against the Bengals was horrid. He needs to work on that. However, don't forget that he got put in the hole early by Moss and Betts, one of which could've gone for a TD. Add those stats up and his TD/INT ratio is even and his rating is 101.6.

[Om]

There's definitely cause for concern here, Om. But it's too early to draw conclusions on Ramsey right now. You can dissect certain plays, however. And his first INT against the Bengals was horrid. He needs to work on that. However, don't forget that he got put in the hole early by Moss and Betts, one of which could've gone for a TD. Add those stats up and his TD/INT ratio is even and his rating is 101.6.

It's DEFINITELY too early to draw conclusions. About ANY aspect of the team.

What we can do, however, is observe trends and speculate and debate until we're blue in the face as to their meaning.

Yes?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

It's DEFINITELY too early to draw conclusions. About ANY aspect of the team.

What we can do, however, is observe trends and speculate and debate until we're blue in the face as to their meaning.

Yes?

I actually prefer the overacting hysterically route myself...lol :thumbsup:

[dfbovey]

Were they poor judgements, or poor throws??...There's a difference between a QB throwing into triple coverage, and a QB underthrowing a receiver who's covered one-on-one and getting intercepted.

The throw into the endzone was just a plain stupid decision. He threw into double coverage to James Thrash rather than hit a wide open Santana Moss underneath. Bad read and very bad decision.

[CHUBAKAH]

There's definitely cause for concern here, Om. But it's too early to draw conclusions on Ramsey right now. You can dissect certain plays, however. And his first INT against the Bengals was horrid. He needs to work on that. However, don't forget that he got put in the hole early by Moss and Betts, one of which could've gone for a TD. Add those stats up and his TD/INT ratio is even and his rating is 101.6.

I think you missed his point. We care about wins, not some stat that says Ramsey is good. After the hundreds of posts you have made to defend Ramsey, why can't you understand this basic concept?

Ramsey can go up and down the field to the one yard line and put up all kinds of numbers. If he has a mental error, or makes a huge mistake that costs us from scoring even twice a game, we lose.

Also, don't forget the two plays you speak about with Moss, and Betts, well those two didn't score, and that's the real reality of what transpired.

You really need some new material. You constant “IF” analysis holds no merit.