I like our team so far.

[hands11]

Well,

Brunell looks like he is getting stronger. He is much more healthy this year. His legs are back. His arm is live and his reads are sound and his throws are accurate. He moved the team. No INTs

He had 3 on target passes dropped. He would have been 13-16

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20050819_CIN@WAS

Ramsey looked better but not in the same park as Brunell.

Ramsey still could be a good QB but hes just not done cooking yet, maybe another 20Min at 450 degrees.

I think Brunell has earned the right to see what he can do with the starting line up. Gibbs can pull it off by saying, planned this the whole time. Maybe he can buy some face by waiting till game 4 but I wouldnt be surprised if it game 3.

We look deep all around.

Neo looks good except the well learned leason about holding onto the ball.

Cartwright makes the team. Hey I was a rock fan when he was a nobody and I actually wanted to see us come into Gibbs first season giving him a chance to start. But we went and signed Portis.

Betts continues to look solid.

The O line is great and deep.

Special teams are looking solid. We have a few guys who look like they do returns.

The WR are looking better. Patten showed up.

The D looked a lot better and it seems like we have some depth there also. Spings is awesome.

The rookie Rogers showed well but got winded. This kid looks like he will be starting sooner then later. Nice pick. If so, we could have nice book end corners, now add LaVar, Taylor and Washington. Warning : Keep way from open flames.

Lastly, Gibbs did well to leave Brunell in instead of putting in the rookie QB. Hes not playing anytime soon and we needed to see Brunell more first. Great move.

Im starting to feel it more and more. This feels more and more like a Gibbs organization. You see it in all the small details.

This should be a good team. We will make progress this year.

[hands11]

So what did youll think about Cartwright ?

[Dallsux]

Originally posted by hands11

I think Brunell has earned the right to see what he can do with the starting line up.

Everything else you said got lost because of this statement. HOW has Brunell "EARNED" a starting position? Because he shows a little improvement WITH THE 2ND TEAM AGAINST 2ND, 3RD, & 4TH STRINGERS???? :doh: Brunell LOST how many games for us last year? And yet he's "EARNED the right to see what he can do with the starting line up?" I think we have SEEN what he can do with the starting line up. And I have seen enough.

Dude, you need to put the crackpipe down & walk away slowly. It is seriosly frying your brain.

[Ignatius J.]

I agree with mr. cowboysuckazz.

Brunell could not make the throws ramsey made last night. With ramsey w have a chance to be good. It's not certain, but brunell just puts a clamp on how good this team can possibly be. If winning the superbowl is the goal, then ramsey is the one who has the best chance of doing that.

Those good passes that ramsey had are just not a part of what brunell can do. Ramsey throws many interceptions, but how good was the field position after those picks? Don't you remember last year when brunell's turnovers lead directly to points for opposing teams? Sure he turned the ball over less, but his turnovers were game killers.

[Dallsux]

Originally posted by Ignatius J.

I agree with mr. cowboysuckazz.

Brunell could not make the throws ramsey made last night. With ramsey w have a chance to be good. It's not certain, but brunell just puts a clamp on how good this team can possibly be. If winning the superbowl is the goal, then ramsey is the one who has the best chance of doing that.

Those good passes that ramsey had are just not a part of what brunell can do. Ramsey throws many interceptions, but how good was the field position after those picks? Don't you remember last year when brunell's turnovers lead directly to points for opposing teams? Sure he turned the ball over less, but his turnovers were game killers.

Agreed. Th Ravens game in particular comes to mind. The INT to Reed returned for a TD, for example. We only LOST by a TD. Without that POOR decision by BRUNELL, we could have actually won that game. Ramsey throws INTs like every other QB in the League. But should we throw out the baby with the bathwater? I don't think so.

[hands11]

Originally posted by CowboyzSuckAzz

Everything else you said got lost because of this statement. HOW has Brunell "EARNED" a starting position? Because he shows a little improvement WITH THE 2ND TEAM AGAINST 2ND, 3RD, & 4TH STRINGERS???? :doh: Brunell LOST how many games for us last year? And yet he's "EARNED the right to see what he can do with the starting line up?" I think we have SEEN what he can do with the starting line up. And I have seen enough.

Dude, you need to put the crackpipe down & walk away slowly. It is seriosly frying your brain.

No crack pipe over here. I think you may be smoking though. "every thing I said was lost " because you misread one statement.

I didnt say he has "earned the starting possition " only that he has "I think Brunell has earned the right to see what he can do with the starting line up." as in the preseason.

What he did last year counts for something but not everything. What he is doing now and what he has done over his career counts for more then one season. There are many reasons to explain his play wasnt good last year. If you werent smoking crack, you would realize that.

I think your remarks were a big over the top.

My statement is in line with many including Charles Mann and Bostic.

[hands11]

Originally posted by Ignatius J.

I agree with mr. cowboysuckazz.

Brunell could not make the throws ramsey made last night. With ramsey w have a chance to be good. It's not certain, but brunell just puts a clamp on how good this team can possibly be. If winning the superbowl is the goal, then ramsey is the one who has the best chance of doing that.

Those good passes that ramsey had are just not a part of what brunell can do. Ramsey throws many interceptions, but how good was the field position after those picks? Don't you remember last year when brunell's turnovers lead directly to points for opposing teams? Sure he turned the ball over less, but his turnovers were game killers.

last year vs this year. lets stick with this year.

Ramsey looked better but Brunell looks way more in control then Ramsey did and Gibbs is the type of coach that will take less mistakes over big plays. Thats just a fact. Gibbs hate. HATE turnovers. You heard it in his post game.

Im not saying Ramsey is done. He progressed this game. He hit some nice plays but he still has basic problems in his game, mostly that he locks onto the reciever and looks the D right to them. That has a lot to do with why he throws the INTs.

Gibbs put Ramsey in some better possitions by keeping him busy rolling and doing play facts that kept him from being able to stare down the reciever. Gibbs will give him the best chance to succeed, but this is just a bandaid for a serious problem in Ramseys QB skills.

Brunell this year looks very little like Brunell last year and a lot more like he has over his career.

[Leonard Washington]

Originally posted by CowboyzSuckAzz

Agreed. Th Ravens game in particular comes to mind. The INT to Reed returned for a TD, for example. We only LOST by a TD. Without that POOR decision by BRUNELL, we could have actually won that game. Ramsey throws INTs like every other QB in the League. But should we throw out the baby with the bathwater? I don't think so.

i think reed had a sack/fumble for a TD.

that's a good point though we probably can win a couple of games with the improved brunell, but if the goal is to get into the playoffs/superbowl then we need the explosive ramsey. we can be a playoff team if ramsey has 20-25tds and 10-15 ints. i don't think brunell could have made many of the throws that ramsey made or even missed last night. check out brunell vs ramsey's yards per completion. who's moving the ball and who's playing into the defense's hands.

just think about the broncos and plummer...plummer makes HORRIBLE INT but they still go to the playoffs every year. does that make shannahan a better coach than gibbs? hmmmm

point being, we can win with ramsey even with his mistakes b/c he throws TDs and we have the defense and running game to be a good football team. if we try to gameplan to teeter totter on 10-7, 7-3 wins...5-11 here we come.

EDIT yards per catch data...ramsey 9 catches 190 yds=21.1yds/catch

brunell 10 catches 122yds=12.2...give brunell a generous 30yds for the 3 drops =11.7yds/catch

[fmorris]

Originally posted by hands11

No crack pipe over here. I think you may be smoking though. "every thing I said was lost " because you misread one statement.

I didnt say he has "earned the starting possition " only that he has "I think Brunell has earned the right to see what he can do with the starting line up." as in the preseason.

What he did last year counts for something but not everything. What he is doing now and what he has done over his career counts for more then one season. There are many reasons to explain his play wasnt good last year. If you were smoking crack, you would realize that.

I think your remarks were a big over the top.

A bit over the top perhaps, but it does show the frustration created by Mark last year. True, not all of it was his fault but I think starting Mark in a preseason game would acomplish little except maybe shaking the confidence of our starting QB. I see it as counter productive at this point. Mark was given a VERY long leash last year. I'd expect no less for Patrick.

[Art]

Originally posted by CowboyzSuckAzz

Everything else you said got lost because of this statement. HOW has Brunell "EARNED" a starting position? Because he shows a little improvement WITH THE 2ND TEAM AGAINST 2ND, 3RD, & 4TH STRINGERS???? :doh: Brunell LOST how many games for us last year? And yet he's "EARNED the right to see what he can do with the starting line up?" I think we have SEEN what he can do with the starting line up. And I have seen enough.

Dude, you need to put the crackpipe down & walk away slowly. It is seriosly frying your brain.

Let me say that my question to you, as a person who is fully a Ramsey supporter as the starter, how, exactly has Ramsey "EARNED" a starting position? Last preseason the team gave both players an opportunity to win the starting job and Brunell played better than Ramsey to win it. He didn't play well, mind you, but he played better than Ramsey. He then played poorly and Ramsey was given the job, but, Ramsey didn't play so well as to have earned the job outright without any competition.

Yet, that's what's happened.

Again, I think Ramsey needs to start, but, I do NOT like the idea that Gibbs must feel Ramsey is so frail mentally that he has to be handed a starting role he has not earned rather than being asked to compete for it. I would feel MUCH more comfortable knowing EVERY position on our roster is up for grabs so every player plays hungry and with focus for his job.

I happen to agree that it would be NICE to see Brunell against a starting group now, NOT because I want him to start, but, because it would be comforting -- assuming he does well -- to know he has improved from last year and would be a capable even quality backup to Ramsey should Ramsey get hurt or fail.

Now, Ramsey should start this week. No doubt about it. This is a good defense in the most meaningful preseason game we'll play.

[CEJ2200]

Originally posted by hands11

Well,

We look deep all around.

Neo looks good except the well learned leason about holding onto the ball.

The O line is great and deep.

Special teams are looking solid. We have a few guys who look like they do returns.

The WR are looking better.

The D looked a lot better and it seems like we have some depth there also. Spings is awesome.

The rookie Rogers showed well but got winded. This kid looks like he will be starting sooner then later. Nice pick.

Lastly, Gibbs did well to leave Brunell in instead of putting in the rookie QB. Hes not playing anytime soon and we needed to see Brunell more first. Great move.

Im starting to feel it more and more. This feels more and more like a Gibbs organization. You see it in all the small details.

This should be a good team. We will make progress this year.

Dead on - The team is starting to take on the persona of the head coach. Fewer penalties, good special teams play, etc. but we need improvement at the QB position. Ramsey must improve in his decision making.

[hands11]

Originally posted by Leonard Washington

i think reed had a sack/fumble for a TD.

that's a good point though we probably can win a couple of games with the improved brunell, but if the goal is to get into the playoffs/superbowl then we need the explosive ramsey. we can be a playoff team if ramsey has 20-25tds and 10-15 ints. i don't think brunell could have made many of the throws that ramsey made or even missed last night. check out brunell vs ramsey's yards per completion. who's moving the ball and who's playing into the defense's hands.

just think about the broncos and plummer...plummer makes HORRIBLE INT but they still go to the playoffs every year. does that make shannahan a better coach than gibbs? hmmmm

point being, we can win with ramsey even with his mistakes b/c he throws TDs and we have the defense and running game to be a good football team. if we try to gameplan to teeter totter on 10-7, 7-3 wins...5-11 here we come.

Since 1995 he has been very good until he got injuried in 2003 at which time he came he to a team totally being reorganized while still not healthy and with no blind side blocking.

Career and this year over last year. Seems easier to see the former.

http://www.redskins.com/team/profile.jsp?id=76

Ramsey hasnt exactly had an easy go of it with Golfman and the revolving QBs and then him almost getting Pat killed with no blocking. Pat Im sure is better then we have seen. Ive always been a Ramsey supporter. I also see what he needs to work on and some of it conserns me. In a different situation, he would have more time to get these things worked out but the clock is ticking with him here.

He does need stability and time to work out his problems but some of these things could take years, which he doesnt have here.

Hey, I hope we have 2 guys that can get it done. Most teams need that before the season is over. The good news is we are looking a lot better this year on offense then last year.

Game 3 preseason should look even better. That what these games are for. I dont care if we win them. I just want to see us get better.

[Dallsux]

Originally posted by hands11

No crack pipe over here. I think you may be smoking though. "every thing I said was lost " because you misread on statement.

I didnt say he has "earned the starting possition " only that he has "I think Brunell has earned the right to see what he can do with the starting line up." as in the preseason.

What he did last year counts for something but not everything. What he is doing now and what he has done over his career counts for more then one season. There are many reasons to explain his play wasnt good last year. If you were smoking crack, you would realize that.

I think your remarks were a big over the top.

Relax, Dude. I wasn't trying to offend you. I was partly joking.

As for misreading what you wrote, I didn't. I understood that you were talking about pre-season. I understood that you think it could be played off. What apparently got lost in translation is that Brunell has NOT earned the right to see what he can do with the starting line up because Rasmey has not LOST that same right.

You are right, though. One season does not a career make. As I have said previously, it's not his talent or lack thereof, that I question. It's his endurance. When Brunell was starting last year, he always appeared to me to start losing his breath from the middle of the 3rd qtr. on in each game. He lost whatever "zip" he had on the ball AND no matter what qtr. it was, he couldn't get the ball more than 30 yards downfield And that was LAST YEAR.

Brunell used to be a great QB. I have some doubts about him having a last hurrah before the end of his career, but it has happened (Doug Williams). I don't think 2 pre-season games that don't amount to 1 regular season game are enough to exemplify one QB & tear down another, simply put. I don't think that Ramsey has LOST the right to see what he can do with the starting line up for Brunell to EARN it.

As for the crackpipe comment, it seriously was a joke. I tell my wife to put the crackpipe down when she tells me that I need to do the dishes. "Put the crackpipe down, Honey. Or at least share, so we can be on the same page." :doh: :no: Silly woman.

[hands11]

Originally posted by CEJ2200

Dead on - The team is starting to take on the persona of the head coach. Fewer penalties, good special teams play, etc. but we need improvement at the QB position. Ramsey must improve in his decision making.

And also, for those who dont know Gibbs style well, dont miss the important underlying story. He is taking his system up to the next level.

Gibbs acted really pissed about the turnovers.

He was some what patient in the past but would bring it up. He knew there was a lot to work on, including stuff he needed to do. Special team, etc. Well a lot of that has been adressed.

Now he is raising the bar. He sets the bar high and forces his players to reach it.

You are going to start to see Gibbs tougher on his players. He will do things like, if you fumble, your on the bench.

He is also known to make examples out of players. Dont be suprised to see someone make a stupid mistake next game and be cut by morning. He does this kind of thing to give extreme attention to NO TURNOVERS. NO TURNOVERS NO TURNOVERS

Here is another piece of information for those of you that dont know Gibb's way of thinking or for those who have forgetten.

He believes 80-90% of games are lost by the other team, not won by the winning team. He believes in moving the ball and field possition with no TOS over big plays with turnovers and bad field possition. He wants the ball out of the other teams offenses hands. He wants to put some pts up, TD or FG, everytime he gets the ball. TO's dont let you do that.

He will try to establish tendencies and then work plays off of those tendencies. He wants a rhythm. He also wants to beat up the other teams D line so he can abuse them come the 4th. He will either were you out with speed and then pound you with Power ( Betts, Rock, Nemo ) or do the opposite ( Byner to Rick Evans ). Portis has the speed and is not bigger so has some more power which is great.

Also, the back to back plays on our rookie CB is exactly the kind of thing Gibbs does to people. He must have had a small smile on his face to see that happen cuz that exactly would he would have done.

Anyway, the line is drawn. Gibbs is in second gear. I wouldnt turn the ball over if I was anyone on this team.

[hands11]

Originally posted by CowboyzSuckAzz

Relax, Dude. I wasn't trying to offend you. I was partly joking.

As for misreading what you wrote, I didn't. I understood that you were talking about pre-season. I understood that you think it could be played off. What apparently got lost in translation is that Brunell has NOT earned the right to see what he can do with the starting line up because Rasmey has not LOST that same right.

( Hands11, well there is the debate. Many, including myself and more then a few pro anounces, X skins players, both and other posters on this board feel differently )

You are right, though. One season does not a career make. As I have said previously, it's not his talent or lack thereof, that I question. It's his endurance. When Brunell was starting last year, he always appeared to me to start losing his breath from the middle of the 3rd qtr. on in each game. He lost whatever "zip" he had on the ball AND no matter what qtr. it was, he couldn't get the ball more than 30 yards downfield And that was LAST YEAR.

[/b]

( Hands11. Right. And why that happen is more clear this year then last. Hey, I slammed Brunell last year. He was terrible. But thats not this year. )

Brunell used to be a great QB. I have some doubts about him having a last hurrah before the end of his career, but it has happened (Doug Williams). I don't think 2 pre-season games that don't amount to 1 regular season game are enough to exemplify one QB & tear down another, simply put. I don't think that Ramsey has LOST the right to see what he can do with the starting line up for Brunell to EARN it.

[/b]

( Hands11, yeah, its a tough call. I agree it would have to be done right. I think Gibbs will weigh all the options. I think on one hand, it would be great for Brunell to get some starting time with the first offense for timing reasons. Actually, the more I think about it, Im almost sure this will happen the last preseason game. Gibbs can pull it off as just his plan to begin with. This way, Ramsey get next game with a more clear mind. We can see if he continue to look better. Brunell gets the same. )

As for the crackpipe comment, it seriously was a joke. I tell my wife to put the crackpipe down when she tells me that I need to do the dishes. "Put the crackpipe down, Honey. Or at least share, so we can be on the same page." :doh: :no: Silly woman. [/b]

Yeah, I get the crack pipe comment. Ive pulled it on posters myself. It basically saying. YOU CRAZYYYYY. But I reserve it for people that say CRAZY things. Give Brunell some time with the starting line up in preseason doesnt really qualify.:laugh:

[Joey T]

Originally posted by Ignatius J.

I agree with mr. cowboysuckazz.

Those good passes that ramsey had are just not a part of what brunell can do. Ramsey throws many interceptions, but how good was the field position after those picks? Don't you remember last year when brunell's turnovers lead directly to points for opposing teams? Sure he turned the ball over less, but his turnovers were game killers.

If Ramsey ever gains confidence, the sky is the limit for this kid.

He is traveling the same path as another wildarmed QB.

I could never spell his name right. Farve, no, it's Favre. Those crazy cajuns:laugh: :cool:

[Dallsux]

Originally posted by Art

Let me say that my question to you, as a person who is fully a Ramsey supporter as the starter, how, exactly has Ramsey "EARNED" a starting position? Last preseason the team gave both players an opportunity to win the starting job and Brunell played better than Ramsey to win it. He didn't play well, mind you, but he played better than Ramsey. He then played poorly and Ramsey was given the job, but, Ramsey didn't play so well as to have earned the job outright without any competition.

As I responded in my previous post, I simply don't think that Ramsey has done as bad as most seem to think. He has done NOTHING in my opinion, to LOSE the starting job. He EARNED it by saving us from a 3-13 season last year. He EARNED it by having a stronger arm & even though he makes poor decisions at times, he has proven to make far less DAMAGING mistakes then Mark Brunell.

I think Ramsey DID play well enough last year AND in these 2 pre-season games to KEEP his starting job without any competition.

Until he proves otherwise, Patrick is the best QB we have on this team, hands down. Campbell may one day prove to be better, as I'm sure most of us would like, but RIGHT NOW, 8.20.05, at 4:17pm, Patrick is the best QB we have & should not have to compete for his job yet again.

Again, I think Ramsey needs to start, but, I do NOT like the idea that Gibbs must feel Ramsey is so frail mentally that he has to be handed a starting role he has not earned rather than being asked to compete for it. I would feel MUCH more comfortable knowing EVERY position on our roster is up for grabs so every player plays hungry and with focus for his job.

I don't think that's not happening. But you can't always be on edge thinking that if you mess up, you'll be replaced, because you are bound to screw up then. I think there has to be some level of comfort there for someone to settle into a position & be able to live up to their potential. There has to be an acceptable level of pressure, but not too much.

Who knows, maybe seeing Brunell improve will boost Patrick along. Maybe that will help him progress because then the pressure will be on. If Mark continues to improve & Patrick stalls out, then he WILL be replaced.

But again, I DO think Patrick has EARNED the starting job. And he WILL continue to improve & he will KEEP his starting job & this topic will eventually become obselete. :fingersx:

I happen to agree that it would be NICE to see Brunell against a starting group now, NOT because I want him to start, but, because it would be comforting -- assuming he does well -- to know he has improved from last year and would be a capable even quality backup to Ramsey should Ramsey get hurt or fail.

I don't want to see him starting just to see how he would look. Too many people would start screaming for Brunell to start & everytime PR stepped out onto the field, he would get BOOed simply because Brunell looked good in a pre-season game (Hmm, sounds familiar...well, except the BOOing of PR part). Ramsey's already getting BOOed in pre-season & there are threads starting to pop up all over the place for Brunell to start as it is. We simply don't need that headache, Art.

As far as I'm concerned, Ramsey has not lost the starting job for Brunell to earn it yet. Period. And Ramsey earned it last year & should not lose it simply because of 2 pre-season games. Period.

:2cents:

[Dallsux]

Originally posted by hands11

well there is the debate. Many, including myself and more then a few pro anounces, X skins players, both and other posters on this board feel differently

And there are many of the same that think the opposite. I am not going to sway my feelings on Patrick Ramsey simply because Jeff Bostic (a MORON behind the mic) thinks "he pats the ball too much." Maybe, my expectations of him are much lower then yours & "more than a few pro announcers, X skins players, both and other posters on this board."

Right. And why that happen is more clear this year then last. Hey, I slammed Brunell last year. He was terrible. But thats not this year.

No, but Brunell isn't going to get any younger, either. If he was out of breath mid 3rd qtr. last year, it probably didn't change much this year. Sure he looks energetic against the practice squad guys. And I'm sure they're thinking that this QB is GREAT the way he runs around on them. But what happens when the 2nd qtr. is over & he is already reaching for the oxygen & he still has the 2nd half of the game to go?

Yeah, I get the crack pipe comment. Ive pulled it on posters myself. It basically saying. YOU CRAZYYYYY. But I reserve it for people that say CRAZY things. Give Brunell some time with the starting line up in preseason doesnt really qualify.:laugh:

To you.

:laugh:

[RayLewis]

i was agaist starting brunell tuntil last nights game. i given up on thinkin Ramsy just had a couple bad games, if u are throwin 2 INTs to the backup Defense for one of the worst defenses in the NFL u are a bad QB. Brunell should start, Ramsy just earned emself a place with Kyle Boller as worst startin QB in the league.

[hands11]

EDIT yards per catch data...ramsey 9 catches 190 yds=21.1yds/catch

brunell 10 catches 122yds=12.2...give brunell a generous 30yds for the 3 drops =11.7yds/catch

--

Hands11

And the 3 in a row that were dropped killing the drive.

At 10+ a catch, almost every catch was a first down.

13-16 is with no INTs is something Gibbs would like.

And here was another catchable one to I think Rock out of the backfrield 14-16.

His passes where dead on.

He moved and created plays that werent there.

First drive was a FG

We drove for a running TD

and one drove stopped because of 3 dropped passes in a row by players I had never heard of.

Yeah, he played against the 2nd D but he also has 2nd, 3rd etc WR and a back up line.

[Dallsux]

Originally posted by RayLewis

i was agaist starting brunell tuntil last nights game. i given up on thinkin Ramsy just had a couple bad games, if u are throwin 2 INTs to the backup Defense for one of the worst defenses in the NFL u are a bad QB. Brunell should start, Ramsy just earned emself a place with Kyle Boller as worst startin QB in the league.

:ravensuck

Of course YOU like Brunell. He helped you guys win our game last year. He only LITERALLY handed the game to you.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Brunell continues to sit on the bench and continues working on becoming closer to his former NFL self, so that if called upon, he can keep the team rolling smoothly...

Ramsey continues to start and continues to work on his touch and field vision, so that when Portis' talent and a full game's worth of sincere playcalling and study of the opponent is put in place, Ramsey will be as ready as possible to take advantage whenever possible...

Simple.

[kingchris626]

Did Campbell play at all?

[hands11]

Originally posted by Califan007

Brunell continues to sit on the bench and continues working on becoming closer to his former NFL self, so that if called upon, he can keep the team rolling smoothly...

Ramsey continues to start and continues to work on his touch and field vision, so that when Portis' talent and a full game's worth of sincere playcalling and study of the opponent is put in place, Ramsey will be as ready as possible to take advantage whenever possible...

Simple.

that is one possible senerio, true.

I just think a lot of people are very blown away by how sharp Brunell looks. But both of them being good or great is what best for us. Who knows how we get there.

Ramsey needs to come out and defend his starting job. He needs to show Gibbs enough progress that he earns the extra time. That means, accurate throws to open players and less stupid plays. IE INTS

Gibbs doesnt start QBs with more INTs then TDs.

[Dallsux]

Originally posted by kingchris626

Did Campbell play at all?

No. Ramsey played the first half, Brunell the second.