Roy Williams will start for the Cowboys

[Qcard]

Originally posted by NavyDave

Back on the day of the draft one of my cowpoke shipmates said that Jammer was a smoke screen and that the pokes were enamoured with Williams from the start.

Our OLBs and corners make us strong on the edges in the NFC East and you can say that the pokes Safeties MLB and DTs make them strong in the middle

From the same site you link:

http://www.insidecowboys.com/1998/2002/cowboys/roy0421.html

Here are some quotes from Jerry Jones. They were attained by Jean Jacque Taylor (DMN's Dallascowboys beat reporter):

Jones said he never wavered when it came to Williams.

Not even when it looked like Williams and Texas cornerback Quentin Jammer would be available when it was the Cowboys' turn to select a player with the sixth pick.

"We didn't want to wake up in the morning and not have Roy Williams on this team," Jones said. "It's no secret that Roy Williams is someone we coveted. I think he can come in here with the skills he has and take us to another level.

"He will allow us to be better next year and for years to come. The plane was in the air to Oklahoma City when we saw Jammer and Williams both there at No. 5."

[@DCGoldPants]

This is all after the fact stuff dude. Nothing against the people that wrote this stuff but I think its just good press to say the guy who have is the guy you always wanted.

I still believe that Dallas would of taken Jammer if he were there with that pick.

[bulldog]

very few if an NFL GM's would trade the opportunity to take a franchise corner to instead select a safety.

that said, Jammer wasn't available in any event so Dallas had to make another selection, even if he was their guy.

Just like the Redskins really wanted Harrington, Stallworth or Haynesworth but ended up going to plan B when no one would trade the earlier picks.

that doesn't mean either team got poor players or ones that won't contribute at a high level in time.

quarterbacks take longer than safeties, so I expect Williams to make his mark first.

his starting is not surprising given the fact the team released its veteran FS and all but pencilled Williams in from the point he was selected.

safeties can play right away in the NFL. other good first round safeties like Steve A****er started right away.

[Qcard]

Originally posted by Bufford

This is all after the fact stuff dude. Nothing against the people that wrote this stuff but I think its just good press to say the guy who have is the guy you always wanted.

I still believe that Dallas would of taken Jammer if he were there with that pick.

I see, In your opinion pre-draft publications or "before the fact publications" carry more weight.

I also believe Dallas would have drafted David Carr if he were there with the pick.

[@DCGoldPants]

Dallas never said they wanted or were going after Carr. But they did say they wanted Jammer. There is a difference

I am just saying that a team will always say the got the guy they wanted after he's drafted. It's good PR and good for the psychie of the new player.

This isn't you saying of course Dallas would of taken Carr or me saying well, Ramsey was our 1st choice. Neither are true and that's obvious.

That being said, I think if you guys could of gotten your hands on Peppers, you would of done that also.

[The Evil Genius]

I will call Roy Williams the next Ronnie Lott when he cuts off part of his finger at half time so he can play the rest of the game.

Now, Williams CAN be a good safety - but Ronnie Lott worthy? No, not yet.

Just like Lavar is not the next LT.

[Art]

Q, you can't be this dumb.

Do you mean that after the draft the GM or coach of a team said they liked the player they got and wanted him all along? I'm stunned. I guess this just solidifes Ramsey as the guy we wanted because we said how much we wanted him after we tried to trade up for other guys.

The Cowboys would have clearly drafted Jammer had he been available. And had he been available, they'd have said he was the guy they wanted all along without a doubt. That's how it works in the NFL Q. Are you new to the sport or something?

Now, I LOVE Williams, but, if the chance is there to take a lock down corner or a top notch safety, any team with any smarts takes the corner and I suspect despite your stupidity, even Jerry Jones would agree. That's not to say Williams wasn't the top rated player on your board. I'm sure he was. The Redskins had Betts as a first round running back too. Teams see something they like and go by it.

But, there is NO question Jammer was the pick for Dallas and that Dallas was looking to move up to get him. Fortunately, like us, you got a player that was very good and will likely help your team even after failing to move up to get someone else.

[Art]

Funny.

I just read the link Q posted validating the Williams information and it turns out it doesn't have Williams draft board rating at all. Just Bryant and Gurode. Odd. But, remember, the Cowboys draft board is a funny thing. It had the second-string QB at Georgia as a second-round pick when no one else had him above the fourth round, so, I'm not doubting what Q says, even when he can't support himself.

[The Sisko]

Does anybody know if Ronnie Lott did that "cut off my pinkey" routine at halftime or not ? I always thought it was an offseason thing that might have gotten in the way of his playing in an upcoming season. If it really happened at halftime, then dude gets a major increase in my already high respect level for him.

[Qcard]

Originally posted by Art

Q, you can't be this dumb.

Do you mean that after the draft the GM or coach of a team said they liked the player they got and wanted him all along? I'm stunned. I guess this just solidifes Ramsey as the guy we wanted because we said how much we wanted him after we tried to trade up for other guys.

The Cowboys would have clearly drafted Jammer had he been available. And had he been available, they'd have said he was the guy they wanted all along without a doubt. That's how it works in the NFL Q. Are you new to the sport or something?

Now, I LOVE Williams, but, if the chance is there to take a lock down corner or a top notch safety, any team with any smarts takes the corner and I suspect despite your stupidity, even Jerry Jones would agree. That's not to say Williams wasn't the top rated player on your board. I'm sure he was. The Redskins had Betts as a first round running back too. Teams see something they like and go by it.

But, there is NO question Jammer was the pick for Dallas and that Dallas was looking to move up to get him. Fortunately, like us, you got a player that was very good and will likely help your team even after failing to move up to get someone else.

Well, "smART". Here is more evidence in form of video link that further validates the fact that Dallas had targeted Roy Williams. I am still trying to find the WAR ROOM PICTURE that further validates my stance. It appears documented information..... e.g.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/in...6/king_insider/

And when Jones was on the clock in the first round, trying to trade down, he unearthed some unexpected inside information from the Vikings. He learned that Minnesota wasn't going to take the player Dallas wanted, Roy Williams, with the next pick, which allowed the Cowboys to deal down two spots with Kansas City. As time with the Chiefs got short, there were high-pitched, nervous voices in the draft room about submitting the trade before they'd have to pass on the pick. Jones never flinched. Must be all those years of practice making oil and gas deals

cannot penetrate your cloud of smARTness.

Well here is a video link from CNN that has Peter King detailing Jerry Jones game plan going into the draft. It appears they had the conversation at Jerry Jones home early draft morning.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/pr/video/sports/2002/04/25/c2c_king_draft.js.html

p.s. I hope you have the software to support the video link.

[@DCGoldPants]

A few things

#1. Peter King said Fred Smoot would be the bust of the draft last year, somehow the bust was a rookie of the month.

#2. When Dallas was on the clock, Jammer was gone so anything written there is moot.

when Jones was on the clock in the first round, trying to trade down

I wonder why he was trying to trade down? well, it could be because Detroit turned down his offer to trade up for Jammer and the same for San Diego.

[Art]

I led an earlier reply with, "Q, you can't be this dumb."

It would appear you can be every bit this dumb. Q, I find it immensely humorous that you made bold the following part of the paragraph provided, "He learned that Minnesota wasn't going to take the player Dallas wanted, Roy Williams, with the next pick, which allowed the Cowboys to deal down two spots with Kansas City."

You see, the sentence before set the time frame as being, "...when Jones was on the clock in the first round..." which means Jammer was no longer available because he was already taken. And since Jammer was no longer available, it is certainly reasonable that Dallas was pleased Minnesota wasn't going to take the player Dallas wanted then. Jeez, you're a dope and you don't even realize it.

This is classic, sign-wearing, "Hey look at me, I'm so smart I got Art, ooops, dammit, NOT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" I don't even feel that good mocking you. As for the conversation between King and Jones at his house, it would seem, again, that you are a bonehead here. Jones put out his plan that he wanted Williams or Buchanon after trading down a few times. Of course, this presumes the fact that Jammer would be gone as projected to Detroit. The Lions, remember, only late in the game finally decided on Harrington.

Further, the "dream scenario" described here was based on whether the Bengals would trade up to get Harrington who would have been floating down the draft so then Dallas could trade ahead of the Giants to get Shockey. King said further that Dallas all along wanted either Jammer or Williams, whoever was available. And, no one can doubt Jammer would have been the pick if both were.

Do you need me to walk you through everything you don't know in this world? I can, but I'll need you to set up a schedule so I can be available to you.

[Dirk Diggler]

I believe Williams will be a stud but I'd still like to see how well he can cover the smaller, quicker receivers that teams like the Rams, Colts, and Skins will march out.

[Erwin S.]

Man, nine straight loses (or however many - I lost count)really make you guys a little testy, huh? Oh well. Who cares? Jammer, Williams? They're both good. I'll take Williams because he was there.

And come on, enough about Quincy okay? He was injured his jr. season. And I wouldn't talk when you guys took Patsy Ramsey with your first pick. The only good thing about Patsy is that he won't be intimidated by the Cowboys because I don't think he's old enough to remember when there was actually a rivalry between Dallas and Washington because the Skins actually won a game or two against Dallas. No pressure there. All he knows is the Skins always lose to the Cowboys - no pressure there, no where to go but up.

Now let's see all the posts about how the skins will finally beat Dallas this year and how the fun-n-gun will put up 50 on the Dallas D. Come on, give me a view into all of your demented football pipe dreams.

[flashback]

RE Ronnie Lott.

Ronnie damaged his pinky finger in a playoff game vs. the Cowboys. The Niners won and I think were taking on the Giants in the NFC championship game next week. Ronnie had the choice of having surgery to repair the bone at the end of his finger and missing the next game or amputating the last bone, stitching it up, and playing the next week. He did cut off part of his finger to play, but it was on a Monday or Tuesday, not at halftime.

This is all from memory from watching Lott tell the story on NFL Films or something, BTW. I apologize if I missed any details. I think it was Tony Dorsett's facemask that caught Lott's finger and mangled it, but I'm not 100% sure.

[Art]

Ramsey is better today than Carter was on draft day a year ago. Ramsey is a superior NFL product in terms of arm strength and experience within a sophisticated offense. Carter was not a sure bet to start at Georgia and no one would have taken him as high as Jerry did.

If Carter works out for you, that's cool. But, until he does, you realize you are going to have to deal with comments about taking him far higher than he was worthy. It's part of it. Ramsey, on the other hand, went about where he was generally considered worthy. An early second round pick the year before (31 teams), and a late first round pick this year. We can clearly do some talking when it comes to value and projections at the QB spot.

But, best of all, to date, our owner hasn't appointed Ramsey the starter.

[The Evil Genius]

So, in 2 seasons, you have 10 total wins, 4 of them against the Skins, and you are happy with that? Hell, I am not happy with the 16 wins in 2 seasons, so I can't imagine what back to back 5-11 seasons would do to me.

To me, the funny thing will be to watch Chad Hutchinson replace QC sometime this year and have all the Cowboy fans jump off the QC bandwagon and onto the Hutchinson bandwagon. And then tell us how bad they really thought QC was and how bad it was of Jerrah to reach for him.

[Dirk Diggler]

There's no doubt about that. You'll be hearing a tune like this "I dont care who our QB is, as long as so and so gives us the best chance to win."

All it takes is one Bobby Hoying like game from Hutchinson and the bandwagon will be full.

[Erwin S.]

I'm not soldon Q. But as fan, I will root for him or anyone else Dallas put sout there. Until I see more of Q or Hutchinson or anyone, I will reserve judgement on who should be the QB.

As for drafting Q, I love the pick but I think it wasn't smart in the 2nd round. 3rd round maybe. 4th round definately. He might even be a steal in the 4th.

I'm just sick of the same comment about Quincy. Maybe this site should put a canned response Q that can be posted whenever a debate starts about Dallas-v- Washington. It would save everyone a lot of time. Just like they could can a statement about Dallas' streak over the skins. That would save me a lot of time.

And for the record, I'm only happy with Dallas' results against th skins these last 2 years. It's been the only highlight they've had as a team.

[Qcard]

Originally posted by Art

I led an earlier reply with, "Q, you can't be this dumb."

It would appear you can be every bit this dumb. Q, I find it immensely humorous that you made bold the following part of the paragraph provided, "He learned that Minnesota wasn't going to take the player Dallas wanted, Roy Williams, with the next pick, which allowed the Cowboys to deal down two spots with Kansas City."

You see, the sentence before set the time frame as being, "...when Jones was on the clock in the first round..." which means Jammer was no longer available because he was already taken. And since Jammer was no longer available, it is certainly reasonable that Dallas was pleased Minnesota wasn't going to take the player Dallas wanted then. Jeez, you're a dope and you don't even realize it.

Well the "dope" has provided articles and video link to support his stance, whilst ART as usual has presented his smARTness aka Homerism and hypothetical situations. The fact is all the evidence presented point towards the fact that Dallas had Roy Williams as their No.1 pick regardless of whether Quentin Jammer was available. Keep up the speculation, which is normally tainted by your Homerism.

Originally posted by Art

This is classic, sign-wearing, "Hey look at me, I'm so smart I got Art, ooops, dammit, NOT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" I don't even feel that good mocking you. As for the conversation between King and Jones at his house, it would seem, again, that you are a bonehead here. Jones put out his plan that he wanted Williams or Buchanon after trading down a few times. Of course, this presumes the fact that Jammer would be gone as projected to Detroit. The Lions, remember, only late in the game finally decided on Harrington.

Once again highlighted is your opinion, which you can not substantitate with any facts. The facts are Dallas wanted to trade down to get Roy Williams and get extra picks inorder to make a move for Shockey. Peter King did not QUALIFY the trade with Jammer being gone. You did smARTness.

Originally posted by Art

Further, the "dream scenario" described here was based on whether the Bengals would trade up to get Harrington who would have been floating down the draft so then Dallas could trade ahead of the Giants to get Shockey. King said further that Dallas all along wanted either Jammer or Williams, whoever was available. And, no one can doubt Jammer would have been the pick if both were.

Do you need me to walk you through everything you don't know in this world? I can, but I'll need you to set up a schedule so I can be available to you.

Highlighted once again is your opinion. Of course the common knowledge the league is a corner has more value than a Safety, but Roy Williams is not your average collegiate safety. Every scouting medium has Roy Williams as the best safety to grace the draft since Eric Turner and arguably since Ronnie Lott. These kind of accoldes or projections by far surpass the value of a 1st Rd. CB. Therefore your common knowledge carries no weight in a conversation where it has been established that Roy Williams had been targeted in a Dream Scenario prior to the draft.

http://www.insidecowboys.com/1998/2...ys/roy0421.html

"He will allow us to be better next year and for years to come. The plane was in the air to Oklahoma City when we saw Jammer and Williams both there at No. 5."

[@DCGoldPants]

fact is before the draft, Dallas was all JAMMER JAMMER JAMMER JAMMER JAMMER JAMMER williams JAMMER JAMMER JAMMER JAMMER.

and now it's like "Jammer Who?"

[Qcard]

Originally posted by Bufford

fact is before the draft, Dallas was all JAMMER JAMMER JAMMER JAMMER JAMMER JAMMER williams JAMMER JAMMER JAMMER JAMMER.

and now it's like "Jammer Who?"

Don't get me wrong, I would have been happy if Quentin Jammer was a Cowboy. I think he will be a solid CB at worst. The fact is Jerry Jones wanted Roy Williams all along. There was also talk about Dallas drafting William Green, but we know how that went.

[@DCGoldPants]

Jones wanted Williams if he couldn't get Jammer. That's what we're saying. What if his trade attempts worked? would he of taken Williams at #3 or #4? Nope, he was trying to trade up because he wanted Q.

[Posse81]

If Jones would have passed on Jammer for Williams, he really is an idiot. And I agree with most here that Williams will be a special player. But Jammer has just as much upside and plays a higher impact position.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by Bufford

If you guys could of traded up and gotten Jammer, you would of. Once Jerry realized that the nobody was trading down before him, of course he was going to act like Williams wasn't his 2nd choice.

I would have taken Roy Williams over Jammer, no question.

Normally you'd take the top CB over the top safety. But at the extreme high end of performance, when you have the opportunity to take the top safety of a generation, you take the safety.

The reason is simple. A CB can only be "so good". Every year there are at least six or more CBs who could be described as "shutdown corners" -- limiting even top receivers to few or no catches, none of them for big gains. But that's as good as it gets. You could have a CB who's "twice as good" as these shutdown CBs, and he wouldn't make any more difference. Against a shutdown CB, offensive teams simply have to find another way to win, and beyond a certain level of excellence in the CB, it doesn't really matter.

But the safety position, at the extreme high end, has no upper limit. A safety has wide-ranging responsibilities, moving laterally from sideline to sideline, up and back from the line of scrimmage to support on deep passes. Differences in instincts, speed and mobility have no upper limit to their impact. Differences in hitting power and hands also have no upper limit. Ultimately you have the theoretical potential of a guy with speed like Darrell Green, hands like Art Monk, hitting power like LaVar Arrington, and instincts and toughness like Ronnie Lott.

A player like that can take over the game and totally disrupt an offense. Roy Williams has the potential to be that player, which is why I hated to see him drafted by the Cowboys.

On my draft wish list, I had Roy Williams first, followed closely by Joey Harrington, followed more distantly by Donte Stallworth. That was a Redskins perspective. Williams would have topped my list regardless of team perspectives.