ntotoro Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Beaudry Pierece, though, proved himself enough to have teams bidding to give him a fat contract. Antonio was much much much better player than anybody you have listed above. Do you think he was worth more than Marcus Washington? Are you prepared to pay him as much? Do you really think this Defense needs a LB corps that costs a ridiculous amoung of money? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by feeshta there is no more sure tackler in the league than Barrow. :doh: :laugh: reeaaalllly!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimFolk Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Beaudry It doesn't matter how much Smoot was paid. He is a flat better player than Walt Harris. Losing Smoot doesn't help this defense. How can you argue that losing Smoot and Pierce doesn't hurt the defense? Are you retarded? You don't pay the guy who can't lock down Todd Pinkston receiver the same as the guy who locked down TO. Fred Smoot was a liability, he has heart but he doesn't have the strength to help against the run gets beat deep often. He was the weak link in the D last year. Walt Harris is a former 1st rounder and former started with playoff experince he's not gonna be strarting the whole season. Lott started 2 games until Taylor was ready. Mike Barrow is handsdown better then Pierce. If he can't go Marshall can fill in fine until McCune is ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimFolk Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Beaudry What I am saying is that these homer fans deny the part that Pierce and Smoot played in making this defense one of the best in the league. The same fools who say Smoot is just a #2 would be saying that Smoot should have made the probowl, IF Smoot were still here. Hint: When a player puts on a Redskins uniform, it does not automatically make him a better player. The best defense is debatable, but we didn't have any of the best stats. I thought the Steeler's defense was probably the best, but we were close. I guess this was directed towards me. I never said they didn't play a big part. All I'm saying is they are replacble just like they replaced players to do what they did. Mike Barrow was our started he went down, then Pierce steped up, If Marty didn't take a chance on him he wouldn't have been in the league. Barrow knows the plays better then him he anchored the Titans to the superbowl under GW. He is a true MLB and doesn't need the DT's to take on more lineman so he can make plays. And as for Smoot, he didn't have a Probowl year (Springs did), Springs was probaly the best player on the D, I just don't see how you can pay the #2 guys who gets beat deep by Meshawn Johnson consistently in both games should be paid on a pro-bowl level when he's not a probowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 There was more to the Skins defense than Smoot & Pierce... a lot more. it's not like we are going to send 9 players out there :laugh: consideiring we finish #3 with mainly backups..... all the returning starters, and new additions shall make up the loss of Pierce & Smoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidenreich Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Beaudry We were a better NFL defense than a fantasy defense, anyway. Not many fantasy leagues give points for 3 and outs or yards allowed. That's exactly right. The best fantasy defenses are the ones that get tons of turnovers or have great Special Teams. Give me the Ravens D every season. Ed Reed gets enough TD's to make my fantasy team happy.... That's why the Detroit Lions D is useful because Drummond runs back punts all the time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Greg Williams is no worse than the 3rd best defensive coordinator/mind in the league. I think his best attributes are his ability to motivate, to get the most out of each player by putting them in positions that play to their strength, and his player personnel/acquisition skills. I think he’s exceptional at all 3 of these. I don’t think he’s quite the tactician/Xs & Os guy that JJ and BB are but he’s not bad there either. In short, I don’t think the loss of 2 solid players coupled with the addition of Rogers and some other key FAs is going to mean much fall off. Just for $hits and giggles…I would put the top 5 as: 1. Belicheck 2. Greg Williams 3. Jim Johnson 4. Jim Bates 5. Wade Phillips Monte Kiffin could justifiable be in the 4 or 5 role but I think he’s a system guy who has one system and hasn’t achieved top results without players who fit perfectly + good health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atloldskin Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Plus if Portis has a strong year, the defense benefits the most from it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaudry Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro Do you think he was worth more than Marcus Washington? Are you prepared to pay him as much? Do you really think this Defense needs a LB corps that costs a ridiculous amoung of money? Nick No, it was probably the financially wise move to let Pierce go. We would have too much money invested in Washington and Arrington. That doesn't matter to the discussion, though. Antonio Pierce played very very well for us and really came into his own. It hurts the team to lose him. If salary were not an issue, you would take Pierce over Barrow, Holdman, Marshall and McCune 10 out of 10 times. That is the point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaudry Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by TimFolk Are you retarded? You don't pay the guy who can't lock down Todd Pinkston receiver the same as the guy who locked down TO. Fred Smoot was a liability, he has heart but he doesn't have the strength to help against the run gets beat deep often. He was the weak link in the D last year. Walt Harris is a former 1st rounder and former started with playoff experince he's not gonna be strarting the whole season. Lott started 2 games until Taylor was ready. Mike Barrow is handsdown better then Pierce. If he can't go Marshall can fill in fine until McCune is ready. I have only 2 things to say to you: 1. Not all players can be replaced. Jansen was not replaced last year and it absolutely killed us. 2. In my mind, you do not understand football. No use in discussing this any further with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickens Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 He clearly never watched a second of the Redskins defense this year. If he did he wouldn't have been so dismissive of Lemar Marshall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris "Touchdown" Cooley Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ntotoro: "Redskins defense. Jeremiah Trotter/Mike Barrow is gone and his replacement is Antonio Pierce? Champ Bailey is gone and his replacement is Shawn Springs? No. 5 pick Sean Taylor is holding out and won't be ready for camp. The no-name defensive line got no help this season. It will take magic for defensive coordinator Gregg Williams to maintain his powerful defense." I love this man. Seriously though... to have a top CB prospect in the draft and Mike Barrow and LA possibly healthy again................. I'm not losing sleep over our defense folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimFolk Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 How do I not understand football? Because I don't agree with you? Your wrong you make it seem like Pierce and Smoot are unreplacble, they were role players in our defense. They can be replaced, everyone in our D is replacble except for Griffin. If you don't believe compare the 1st Eagles game (No Griffin) to the 2nd Eagles game (Which we should have won). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkart Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 If Sean Taylor plays the whole season and Mike Barrows plays this year, I think top 5 is very attainable!! Walter Harris is a quality CB as far as I'm concerned and GW knows how to play him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by TimFolk How do I not understand football? Because I don't agree with you? Your wrong you make it seem like Pierce and Smoot are unreplacble, they were role players in our defense. They can be replaced, everyone in our D is replacble except for Griffin. If you don't believe compare the 1st Eagles game (No Griffin) to the 2nd Eagles game (Which we should have won). You're absolutely right. They CAN be replaced. However, that doesn't GUARANTEE that they WILL be replaced and our team will not miss a beat next season. I have just as much faith in Williams as everyone else, but to just assume that we will be a top 5 D this year because we were one last year is a little suspect. People on this board tend to only focus on the pros in most arguments for the Skins. Did Williams create a D that was greater than the sum of its parts last year? Absolutely! Is the loss of Pierce and Smoot crippling to our D? Nope. However, what if offensive coordinators have been studying film on Williams this off season and they've picked up a tendency or two? Is it ridiculous to think that we'll drop from #3 to #10 in total D?? That happens from season to season in the NFL without any turnover, it can certainly happen when there is some. Again, I am very optimistic for this coming season. I expect us to be a well-balanced team this year and much better than last year. However, I just don't see the need to bash every article that doesn't predict a 10-win season for our beloved Redskins. Let's let the press be wrong! :point2sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 I guess people tend to forget Pierce was a career backup and bench warmer before 2004. If Williams can get a Pro Bowl like year out of Pierce, certainly he can get a wee bit better out of known commodities like Mike Barrow and Warrick Holdman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaleighSkinsMann Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Skindrodamus I agree that we could fall slightly because it is always hard to maintain a high D ranking especially the way they do it with total yards. But to say it is going to take "magic" that is just obsurd, GW will have us around the Top 5 all year. You have got to be kidding me, while GW was in Buffalo his defense didnt drop to lower than 5th I think...... I actually expext us to be either the same or better with players having been in the system before.....(not to mentin that some of our acquistions ex:Prioleau & Holdman have played in the system before..and we cant forget barrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Warhead36 I guess people tend to forget Pierce was a career backup and bench warmer before 2004. If Williams can get a Pro Bowl like year out of Pierce, certainly he can get a wee bit better out of known commodities like Mike Barrow and Warrick Holdman. So the logic here is that because Pierce was an obscure unknown BEFORE the season yet shined DURING the season when given the chance, GW will get the same or greater production out of EVERY back up including two injury prone veterans on the down side of the careers? I just need clarification? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Originally posted by THEHEREAFTER So the logic here is that because Pierce was an obscure unknown BEFORE the season yet shined DURING the season when given the chance, GW will get the same or greater production out of EVERY back up including two injury prone veterans on the down side of the careers? I just need clarification? Which two would those be? Barrow has been injury-free until last year. Springs had that mantle upon him before arriving here, yet even played well one game with a concussion. Regardless, our Defense isn't defined by one player. That is why it was a top Defense in Houston/Tenessee, Buffalo and now here. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[ghost]] Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro You could have said the exact same thing last year. Here... I'll paraphrase... "Redskins defense. Jeremiah Trotter/Mike Barrow is gone and his replacement is Antonio Pierce? Champ Bailey is gone and his replacement is Shawn Springs? No. 5 pick Sean Taylor is holding out and won't be ready for camp. The no-name defensive line got no help this season. It will take magic for defensive coordinator Gregg Williams to maintain his powerful defense." I left out the LaVar part, but he was rather dutifully replaced by Lemar Marshall, another "who?" kind of player. Not to mention the injured players coming back this year. Nick :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 I am an Antonio Pierce fan personally, but come on mediots, like any of you thought Pierce was an ample replacement for Trotter at the beginning of last season, and I mean did they realize that Lavar was out just about the entire season in 2004 and who played in his spot.........LEMAR MARSHALL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookie0720 Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 LaVar Arrington has a bum knee and can't stay out of trouble. Because Lavar Arrington is just ALWAYS getting in trouble. Seeing as how this party incident is the first time any trouble has ever surrounded him, and considering he did NOTHING wrong in the incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feeshta Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Originally posted by THEHEREAFTER :doh: :laugh: reeaaalllly!? Name someone who is better then. Not saying he is THE best because their is no way to quantify that, but I have never seen anyone more fundamentally sound and sure than Barrow. He simply doesn't miss very often at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Originally posted by THEHEREAFTER GW will get the same or greater production out of EVERY back up including two injury prone veterans on the down side of the careers? I just need clarification? and your team signed how many over 30 players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Originally posted by jimster and your team signed how many over 30 players? I was comparing the loss of Pierce vs. who his replacements will be. The person I quoted stated that Warrick Holdman and or Michael Barrow will plug in and have the same success as Pierce. Yes, a 30 year old can be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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