jbooma Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by Liberty I will let Destino make my point since you are obviously ignoring the content of my posts. I am not ingnoring, you have the right to post what you want, but you do not have the right to sit her and tell Hully she is wrong, that is all I am saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by Destino You don't know what freedom means. In your world telling you that you look goofy in yellow pants is bad, but outlawing them and saying nothing to you in the first place is good. Wrong, in my world unlike many I wouldn't care if someone told me that, that is their right, however I don't feel you or Liberty have the right to tell others using their morals to vote is wrong, that is their decision. I voted bush this past election, but I have no anger at people that voted for Kerry, that was their choice and I appluade them in making it. I don't sit there and say they should have voted Bush, because it isn't my place to say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneskins Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Well to get back to the question of this thread, If the Democrats want to win back the South, What they need to do is campaign more in the South. IMO if there were more electoral votes in the South, They would start campaigning more in the South. You can look here to see what I am talking about. http://www.electoral-vote.com/ As you can see, in the south and Midwest there are the states that have very few electoral votes, So why do the Democrats want to go to these states? During the 2004 election, I lived In North Carolina, and even though it was John Edwards state, I hardly ever saw him. I saw the President atleast 8 times. and as you can see, He won NC. I do not know about the rest of the southern states, but I would suspect that it is simmilar. Also, as a soldier, I saw the President going to see the troops overseas, HMMM, to me that shows that he cares about the soldiers (or atleast acts like it). I don't think that I saw or heard of Kerry going overseas. I am sure that is why Bush won the military vote. You see there are many ways that the democrats can get back in office, By showing that they actually care about the people of the US. Getting out and listening to what they have to say. Not just wait until it is election time and say, well I guess I better go and show my face. As for which way I voted.. In 2000, I voted for Gore.. I was not a fan of Bush... However, I am glad that he is the President. In 2004, I voted Bush, and I am still happy that he is the President. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soliloquy Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by jbooma ... you do not have the right to sit her and tell Hully she is wrong, that is all I am saying. You might want to take a look at the First Amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by jbooma I am not ingnoring, you have the right to post what you want, but you do not have the right to sit her and tell Hully she is wrong, that is all I am saying. what the hell is that supposed to mean? If someone says 1+1= cream cheese then I have every right to tell them they are wrong. In fact, how are YOU the only one that is allowed to tell other people they are wrong. (ie telling me I have no right to blah blah blah) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by jbooma Wrong, in my world unlike many I wouldn't care if someone told me that, that is their right, however I don't feel you or Liberty have the right to tell others using their morals to vote is wrong, that is their decision. I voted bush this past election, but I have no anger at people that voted for Kerry, that was their choice and I appluade them in making it. I don't sit there and say they should have voted Bush, because it isn't my place to say that. I agree 100% I voted for what I believe in I am only voting for myself not for anyone else. If others wanted to have their voice heard they should have voted too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by Liberty what the hell is that supposed to mean? If someone says 1+1= cream cheese then I have every right to tell them they are wrong. In fact, how are YOU the only one that is allowed to tell other people they are wrong. (ie telling me I have no right to blah blah blah) Can you think of something better then that. I thought you were educated. What I said was you do not have the right to tell someone their morals are wrong just because you don't agree with them. What you pointed out was a factual thing. I don't tell others are wrong, unlike you. What I said was it is wrong to speak out against someone if you don't have the same beliefs, when you do that you are imposing your morals and your beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneskins Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Liberty, You and I disagree on alot of issues. And this one is no different. Yes , you have your 1st amendment rights, and so does everyone else, But dude, this is a football message board. You voted your way, and huly voted hers. You have the right to voice your opinion as so does she. However, You are taking it to the pont of personal attacking. She is not telling you that yo uare wrong, She is simply stating that she voted her way and you, (well You probably haven't voted yet , But that is a different story) voted yours. Simply put, feel free to 'Voice' your opinions, not push them on someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by jbooma Can you think of something better then that. I thought you were educated. What I said was you do not have the right to tell someone their morals are wrong just because you don't agree with them. What you pointed out was a factual thing. I don't tell others are wrong, unlike you. What I said was it is wrong to speak out against someone if you don't have the same beliefs, when you do that you are imposing your morals and your beliefs. So are you arguing for Moral Relativism or the "if you have nothing nice to say...."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by airborneskins Liberty, You and I disagree on alot of issues. And this one is no different. Yes , you have your 1st amendment rights, and so does everyone else, But dude, this is a football message board. You voted your way, and huly voted hers. You have the right to voice your opinion as so does she. However, You are taking it to the pont of personal attacking. She is not telling you that yo uare wrong, She is simply stating that she voted her way and you, (well You probably haven't voted yet , But that is a different story) voted yours. Simply put, feel free to 'Voice' your opinions, not push them on someone. Bingo The other thing every time you say everyone is wrong and I am right you are becoming what you oppose the most, someone taking away their freedom and someone that thinks the are above others like Destino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by airborneskins Liberty, You and I disagree on alot of issues. And this one is no different. Yes , you have your 1st amendment rights, and so does everyone else, But dude, this is a football message board. You voted your way, and huly voted hers. You have the right to voice your opinion as so does she. However, You are taking it to the pont of personal attacking. She is not telling you that yo uare wrong, She is simply stating that she voted her way and you, (well You probably haven't voted yet , But that is a different story) voted yours. Simply put, feel free to 'Voice' your opinions, not push them on someone. You are correct and Liberty is clearly showing the blunt manner of communication common among men his age but it's important to see his point, because it's a good one. Liberty is saying, correctly, that voting on your morals is not always merely a personal decision that effects you and you alone. When voting for moral lawmaking you are supporting the notion that you brand of morality be forced on me. Liberty disagree's with that, NOT a moral belief system, but the forcing of one on others. There is a difference that for some reason is incredibily difficult for people to acknowledge. Although I'll grant you that he could have chosen a less aggressive way to post his objections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by Destino There is a difference that for some reason is incredibily difficult for people to acknowledge. You make it seem if I am for abortion that I am voting for that, this is why you are logic is off. Just because I am voting for someone who has the same believes as me doesn't mean that law will pass since it has to be approved by many not one, so your logic is way off. Even if that person won, they can't force their believes on everyone, only if they all believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 I think this last exchange shows what is happening. Huly is the person that Dems need to attract to win elections again. If they are going to get on TV and attack her moral views in this way well they are going to continue to lose the south Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by SkinsHokieFan I think this last exchange shows what is happening. Huly is the person that Dems need to attract to win elections again. If they are going to get on TV and attack her moral views in this way well they are going to continue to lose the south Bingo! The Dems keep wanting people to change to fit their views, when they should be thinking about it the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by jbooma Bingo The other thing every time you say everyone is wrong and I am right you are becoming what you oppose the most, someone taking away their freedom and someone that thinks the are above others like Destino JBooma allow me to say it again, I'm not saying anyone's personal moral beliefs are wrong in this thread. I'm saying that I believe forcing it on me by making it the law is wrong in some cases. I'm also saying that when you are imposing something on others have the guts to admit it. However I am no moral relativist. I do think that some sets of morality are superior to others. The morality commonly taught in the US is superior to that which we hear about coming from the middle east concerning the treatment of women. I would have no problem informing any people subscribing to that belief system that come to america that ours will be imposed on them under penalty of law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by Destino JBooma allow me to say it again, I'm not saying anyone's personal moral beliefs are wrong. I'm saying that I believe forcing it on me by making it the law is wrong in some cases. I'm also saying that when you are imposing something on others have the guts to admit it. I am no moral relativist. I do think that some sets of morality are superior to others. The morality commonly taught in the US is superior to that which we hear about coming from the middle east concerning the treatment of women. I would have no problem informing any people subscribing to that belief system that come to america that ours will be imposed on them under penalty of law. Let me also point out technically anyone that votes always the party line is voting their morals. When I vote I don't care what party they are from, all I care about who I think will be the best to lead this country thats it. It could be republican, democrat, independent, etc... So Destino since you have never voted the other side you do vote your morals and impose the laws on me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by jbooma Let me also point out technically anyone that votes always the party line is voting their morals. When I vote I don't care what party they are from, all I care about who I think will be the best to lead this country thats it. It could be republican, democrat, independent, etc... So Destino since you have never voted the other side you do vote your morals and impose the laws on me I don't vote the party line at all. In VA I'll vote for anyone that will reduce the damn property taxes so long as they aren't complete extremists one way or the other. I was a big fan of Gilmore for daring to take on the car tax, which in my opinion is theft. Make no mistake about it, we are discussing national policy here. If it were local you'd see a completely different side of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 SkinsHokie Fan, you stated my thoughts exactly. If the Dems want my vote they need to attract some of my conservative side. I look at everything. I am not saying Bush is perfect but he had a lot on his platform that I agreed on and some I disagreed on (I am anti gun which Kerry had a nice platform for). Bush just had more of what I wanted in a president. Bush does not have all the power that is why we have a Senate and a House, but I want a leader that upholds my beliefs. I am honestly not trying to oppose on anyone including Liberty but I do not lead a sheltered life and I state how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by Destino I don't vote the party line at all. In VA I'll vote for anyone that will reduce the damn property taxes so long as they aren't complete extremists one way or the other. I was a big fan of Gilmore for daring to take on the car tax, which in my opinion is theft. Make no mistake about it, we are discussing national policy here. If it were local you'd see a completely different side of me. Don't get me started on Gilmore, he screwed this state so bad. Yes the car tax is bad, however you can not take a source of revenue away like that if you do not have something to make up for it :doh: The colleges in this state have suffered since, and it is sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by SkinsHokieFan I think this last exchange shows what is happening. Huly is the person that Dems need to attract to win elections again. If they are going to get on TV and attack her moral views in this way well they are going to continue to lose the south The fact that the irony is lost on the mainstream Democratic Party really is something else. They could have easily trounced George Bush, but not with that motley crew they put out there last year. '08 isn't looking much better for them, either. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro The fact that the irony is lost on the mainstream Democratic Party really is something else. They could have easily trounced George Bush, but not with that motley crew they put out there last year. '08 isn't looking much better for them, either. Nick I agree if they put anyone besides Kerry against him they would won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Not ANYONE, but a few others for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by Cskin The deficit grew as a result of trying to protect ourselves, not to mention fight two wars. I know laying down and playing dead is cheaper..... but the SOUTH is having none of that! Foreign policy.... it's about time we started calling a spade a spade and pushing around our influence. If you think we're going to cowtoe to the corrupt French, underhanded Germans, or conniving Russia... think again. Actually, you are misinformed, almost 2/3rds of the deficit was due to your second Lexus. Yes, the tax cuts for the rich is where 2/3rds of the deficit went, not to Iraq, nor the war but the cuts. Right now, Iraq has cost about $300 Billion where as the tax cuts were $1.4 trillion, you do the math. Healthcare... well.... find in the consitution where it says that the govt. shall provide healthcare to all it's citzens and we'll talk. Keep giving people stuff we won't be able to take away... and we'll see what the deficit looks like in ten years. I say grow the economy, cut people's taxes, get the govt.'s hand out of all of our wallets and purses and they'll be plenty of money for healthcare. What planet do you live on??? We are running into the $500billion reigon of overspending and you have the audacity to say healthcare will pan out??? Tell that to the over 45million Americans with NO health care right now :doh: 5.2 % unemployment kind of deflates the whole layed off thing. Now, if you're wanting the govt. to provide everyone a $50K a year job.... on the current path it's right around the corner if the left gets it's way. How are the unemployment numbers created? They are based on two accounts, and neither is accurate. They both eliminate unemployment numbers when the unemployment runs out. As of right now, there are 5.2% of Americans ON unemployment, not unemployed, there is a VERY big difference. Social services... simply stop giving them and force people to make it on their own. We keep giving more social services and we'll make Europe look like Utopia. [/b] Yes, who would want our society educated and taken care of. We are in the bottom end of industrialized nations in things like infant mortality and education, who needs things like this anyways, let people fend for themselves. Because if they are forced to, there would be no more competitioon at the top, something the right is trying to do by seperating the classes right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 The tax cuts didnt COST anything, they simply didnt bring in money that the Govt prviously got. Big difference. It's not their money to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Actually, you are misinformed, almost 2/3rds of the deficit was due to your second Lexus. Yes, the tax cuts for the rich is where 2/3rds of the deficit went, not to Iraq, nor the war but the cuts. Right now, Iraq has cost about $300 Billion where as the tax cuts were $1.4 trillion, you do the math. Um...:paranoid:.... we were at war, and diving into recession, and one of the things that got the economic motor fired and idling.... then reving up.... was the tax cuts to people WHO ACTUALLY PAY TAXES. Yes, people who are paying their taxes.....ALONG WITH OTHER PEOPLE'S TAXES.... because the Left thinks those people can afford to do so. You're obsession with my Lexus is scary. What planet do you live on??? We are running into the $500billion reigon of overspending and you have the audacity to say healthcare will pan out??? Tell that to the over 45million Americans with NO health care right now Hey.... I'm with you about the overspending.... it's reached gag-reflex proportions. But Cho... that kind of spending has been going on for decades... by both Dems and Repubs. The simple fact is... if "we the people" could get the ****roaches in Washington to stop giving our money away.... in the form of foreign aid :doh:.... simple govt. waste ($500 hammers).... dependency creating social welfare programs.... and pork barrel spending projects..... EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN IN THE COUNTRY could have healthcare. Let me ask you, Stevenson's (D-Alaska)$50 mil project to build a bridge to an island with a couple dozen people.... how many doctor bills could that pay? How about the $100mil to promote Wisconsin cheese? Oh... and the $50mil Biodome in Iowa. Get the idea? How are the unemployment numbers created? They are based on two accounts, and neither is accurate. They both eliminate unemployment numbers when the unemployment runs out. As of right now, there are 5.2% of Americans ON unemployment, not unemployed, there is a VERY big difference. You're not swaying me here... if people want to work... they can find a job. May not be their "dream job"... but it's a job. In the meantime, they can seek skills training and acquire a better job. This idea from the Dems that this is the worst economy since the Depression, as Donna Brazille has declared, is pure fantasy. Yes, who would want our society educated and taken care of. We are in the bottom end of industrialized nations in things like infant mortality and education, who needs things like this anyways, let people fend for themselves. Because if they are forced to, there would be no more competitioon at the top, something the right is trying to do by seperating the classes right now. More Dem talking points. And.. this declining education problem... I wonder who's responsible for that? Couldn't be the Dems and their public school agenda.... the continued dumbing down but culturally diverse program.... that is creating kids who can't name five US Presidents outside of Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln.... and then followed by a bunch of "umms.... uh-huh...uh-huh..." as if they were Beavis or Butthead. And the Dems solution? More money poured at the problem. :doh: In the end, I blame the social programs and entitlement gifts for the continued decline of our US society. It's the continued push by the Left to hold every string in our lives and make us dependent on the govt. that will be our ultimate demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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