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Do you really want Monk in the Hall?


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JRockster--

He voted Irvin all the way through but doesn't think Monk deserves in? He has almost 200 more receptions than Irvin, 3 more TDs, and almost 1000 more career receiving yards. Granted, Monk played 4 more seasons than Irvin, but that durability should factor into the voting process, imo.

So you are telling me that if Irvin had not hurt his neck in Philly and had played four more years that he would have not gotten 3000 yards, 200 receptions, and three more TDs?

Lets see that means he would have averaged 4 seasons like this:

50 rec. .75 TDs 250 yards

That is a terrible season and Irvin would have passed those numbers up in two more years, much less 4.

If we are measuring HOF deservance with SBs, its a tie. Stats, as I just argued, Irvin wins. The only thing that Monk has, or doesnt have, are the off-the-field issues, plain and simple. For you to make the case that Monk deserves it before Irvin is rediculous.(sp?)

Go ahead and make the case that Irvin had a better RB, Oline, or QB, or whatever else you like. The fact is he still had to catch them and he still had to get open, plain and simple. Irvin deserved it.

:2cents:

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Originally posted by blakman211

But my question is 'is it possible for us to flood the emails of the HOF writers about this stuff as opposed to just telling each other.

2 years ago I believe "Newhog" or "PCinoz" of CPND did just this.

He gathered up all the email addy's of the HOF voters prior to the 2004 vote and asked Redskins fans to email the hell out of them, not with form letters but your own personal anecdotes.

I don't know how many did it, I did, and it didn't really make much of a difference.

However I do not think it will hurt to try it again

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Originally posted by TheKeyBlue

JRockster--

He voted Irvin all the way through but doesn't think Monk deserves in? He has almost 200 more receptions than Irvin, 3 more TDs, and almost 1000 more career receiving yards. Granted, Monk played 4 more seasons than Irvin, but that durability should factor into the voting process, imo.

So you are telling me that if Irvin had not hurt his neck in Philly and had played four more years that he would have not gotten 3000 yards, 200 receptions, and three more TDs?

Lets see that means he would have averaged 4 seasons like this:

50 rec. .75 TDs 250 yards

That is a terrible season and Irvin would have passed those numbers up in two more years, much less 4.

If we are measuring HOF deservance with SBs, its a tie. Stats, as I just argued, Irvin wins. The only thing that Monk has, or doesnt have, are the off-the-field issues, plain and simple. For you to make the case that Monk deserves it before Irvin is rediculous.(sp?)

Go ahead and make the case that Irvin had a better RB, Oline, or QB, or whatever else you like. The fact is he still had to catch them and he still had to get open, plain and simple. Irvin deserved it.

:2cents:

You can project numbers all you like and play the what if game with Irvin, the bottom line is Art Monk has better career numbers than Irvin. If you want to play what if game how about:

What if Art Monk had a HOF QB his entire career?

What if Art Monk hadn't had two strike shortened seasons during his career?

What if Art Monk didn't have catches taken away from him by two other fantastic receivers?

I don't think anyone argues that Irvin belongs in the HOF. The question is, does he deserve to get in BEFORE Art Monk? As others have said, Art Monk should have gotten in on the first ballot or at worst the 2nd. The fact that we are still having this debate and discussing sending emails to the voters should be viewed as sad and embarrassing to the NFL and the Hall of Fame.

Also others have made this point when the Irvin issue comes up so I'll bring this up now.

If Irvin deserves to get in the Hall of Fame for this:

12 years 750 rec 11904 yds 15.9 avg 65 TD

Why the hell isn't Gary Clark even being mentioned considering the following:

11 years 699 rec 10856 yds 15.5 avg 65 TD

If Irvin "deserves" to get in.....so does Clark and yet nothing. Thus you see folks writing the opinion that Irvin is a "media darling" and that's why he's being considered and Art Monk gets the shaft every year.

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Originally posted by TheKeyBlue

JRockster--

He voted Irvin all the way through but doesn't think Monk deserves in? He has almost 200 more receptions than Irvin, 3 more TDs, and almost 1000 more career receiving yards. Granted, Monk played 4 more seasons than Irvin, but that durability should factor into the voting process, imo.

So you are telling me that if Irvin had not hurt his neck in Philly and had played four more years that he would have not gotten 3000 yards, 200 receptions, and three more TDs?

Lets see that means he would have averaged 4 seasons like this:

50 rec. .75 TDs 250 yards

That is a terrible season and Irvin would have passed those numbers up in two more years, much less 4.

If we are measuring HOF deservance with SBs, its a tie. Stats, as I just argued, Irvin wins. The only thing that Monk has, or doesnt have, are the off-the-field issues, plain and simple. For you to make the case that Monk deserves it before Irvin is rediculous.(sp?)

Go ahead and make the case that Irvin had a better RB, Oline, or QB, or whatever else you like. The fact is he still had to catch them and he still had to get open, plain and simple. Irvin deserved it.

:2cents:

So Irvin lost 4 years because he got hurt?

Tell that to Terrell Davis.

Monk played in 2 strike shortened seasons. Monk was injured for 1/2 of 2 seasons and his last season he only played a couple games as a #3 or #4 WR. He also didn't benefit from the rules protecting receivers that changed during Irvins prime. Just that change alone helped 9 receivers catch over 100 balls in 1995 while Monk caught 106 in 1984 when the next best WR had 80. What category did Irvin ever lead the league in by 25%? Irvin also didn't have to play 6 games a year against very very good divisional opponents. Irvins entire career he benefitted from Emmitt Smith and Troy Aikman. Irvin was a Freddie Mitchell type player before Aikman and Smith arrived. He averaged 24 receptions and 4 TD's a season over his first 3 seasons and was only a product of a successful running game and OL later. Irvin was a pretty good receiver but I'm sure that if you compared his stats to the average of the receivers during his prime years vs Monks anyone would see that Monks stats stand up much better among his peers from the same seasons. Monk held the record for most receptions in a season and a career. Irvin has held only Cowboy records.

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Originally posted by TheKeyBlue

So you are telling me that if Irvin had not hurt his neck in Philly and had played four more years that he would have not gotten 3000 yards, 200 receptions, and three more TDs?

For you to make the case that Monk deserves it before Irvin is rediculous.(sp?)

If Ifs and Buts were Candy and Nuts.....

If Irvin ever gets in the Hall I hope the prior inductees make Everett McIver or one of those hookers give the introduction speech. :laugh:

You're right about one thing though, that's rediculous.

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Originally posted by TheKeyBlue

JRockster--

He voted Irvin all the way through but doesn't think Monk deserves in? He has almost 200 more receptions than Irvin, 3 more TDs, and almost 1000 more career receiving yards. Granted, Monk played 4 more seasons than Irvin, but that durability should factor into the voting process, imo.

So you are telling me that if Irvin had not hurt his neck in Philly and had played four more years that he would have not gotten 3000 yards, 200 receptions, and three more TDs?

Lets see that means he would have averaged 4 seasons like this:

50 rec. .75 TDs 250 yards

That is a terrible season and Irvin would have passed those numbers up in two more years, much less 4.

If we are measuring HOF deservance with SBs, its a tie. Stats, as I just argued, Irvin wins. The only thing that Monk has, or doesnt have, are the off-the-field issues, plain and simple. For you to make the case that Monk deserves it before Irvin is rediculous.(sp?)

Go ahead and make the case that Irvin had a better RB, Oline, or QB, or whatever else you like. The fact is he still had to catch them and he still had to get open, plain and simple. Irvin deserved it.

:2cents:

Did I miss when Irvin had the most catches in the history of the game? He may deserve to be in, but over Art Monk, come on that is just not smart.

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Originally posted by TheKeyBlue

JRockster--

If we are measuring HOF deservance with SBs, its a tie. Stats, as I just argued, Irvin wins. The only thing that Monk has, or doesnt have, are the off-the-field issues, plain and simple. For you to make the case that Monk deserves it before Irvin is rediculous.(sp?)

Go ahead and make the case that Irvin had a better RB, Oline, or QB, or whatever else you like. The fact is he still had to catch them and he still had to get open, plain and simple. Irvin deserved it.

:2cents:

Nobody's saying Irvin doesn't deserve to get in. :rolleyes:

If you want to go into teammates, Monk had different QBs and Irvin had a Hall of Famer in Troy Aikman. Monk had different RBs and Irvin had a Hall of Famer in Emmit Smith.

Nobody knows how Irvin would have fared without these weapons taking defensive attention away from him.

Also- The off-field problems caused a stir over Lawrence Taylor getting in. Irvin keeps his nose up the butt of ESPN or he'd be stalled on that controversy too.

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Hey guys, I posted this earlier in the thread. According to Woody Paige of the Denver Post and HOF voter, flooding the voters with form letters doesn't help. It actually pisses them off. I would suggest we post the addresses here but write our own letters. And make the case for Art, not against anyone else, and don't tell them what morons they are.

Hail,

Originally posted by HailSkinz1

Just one note of caution. Don't send form letters to the HOF voters. They will actually hold that against you. If you do write them, send them your own personalized letters.

In an earlier post I mentioned that I heard from Woody Paige after I wrote a letter. He thought my letter was a form letter and told me it only hurts the cause.

Good luck!

Hail,

H

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If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, please what is this, second grade?

One of your own redskin fans even stated that, "granted Monk did play four more season, BUT DURIBILITY SHOULD MATTER"

One thing we can all agree on, the HOF is a joke. Monk should be in. Irvin should be in. Rayfield should be in. Clark should be in. Pearson should be in. Its a joke. Im not saying that Monk doesn't deserve it because he certanly(sp?) does, I just think Irvin was a better reciever.

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Grimm was on every best linemen of the twentieth century list. He and the Hogs reinvented what constitutes a good lineman. That there isn't a Hog in the Hall is a joke. Monk similarly broke every record and made so many important catches. He and the Hogs are the consistent piece of the Redskins Superbowl runs. More catches, more consisency, highest number of catches in a single season. When Monk played a good number of catches in a season was forty... he went over a hundred in a year that every other receiver went down and entire defenses keyed on him during passing plays. He was unstoppable.

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Originally posted by TheKeyBlue

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, please what is this, second grade?

One of your own redskin fans even stated that, "granted Monk did play four more season, BUT DURIBILITY SHOULD MATTER"

One thing we can all agree on, the HOF is a joke. Monk should be in. Irvin should be in. Rayfield should be in. Clark should be in. Pearson should be in. Its a joke. Im not saying that Monk doesn't deserve it because he certanly(sp?) does, I just think Irvin was a better reciever.

It must be second grade....because you sure as hell can't spell....

More importantly though, Monk was the better receiver. Statistically and overall. Irvin merely gets praised because he ran his mouth and acted like a damn jackass. don't get me wrong he was good, but he wasn't art monk

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I knew someone would say that but who cares. I didn't know that we came to an NFL board to critique spelling. Your wrong though, Irvins numbers prove that he was better and more durable. Go and pull out Monk's best seasons and compare them to Irvin's career and see who had the best numbers for the same amount of seasons. Irvin was better.

If you want to get into grammar, Statistically and overall is not its own sentence, there is no subject. Art Monk should be capaltilized.(sp)

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