OT: Do This Morning's Results Mean Brazil Wins Cup?

[bulldog]

Brazil outlasted a solid English team 2-1 while playing the last segment a man down. Losing Ronaldinho at 1-1 and not only holding England from going ahead but scoring themselves was an impressive feat by the Brazilians.

This Brazil team is not a great one, at least not like some of the Brazil teams we have seen in the past, but with so many favorites out of the tournament or seemingly below par (see Germany), one has to wonder whether Brazil might be getting ready to hoist that 5th Cup?

Germany has not proven outside of beating the Saudis that it is a side that can score. They have lived with scoring only one goal in two games against Ireland and the US in a row.

Spain is another squad with talent. Their first round match record was among the best. Spain, though, looked confused and out of sync against the pluckiness of the Irish who refused to concede the game and played the full 90 plus minutes into the extra period and the penalty phase. Morrientes has played well in the tournament but has not been given the starts because he and Raul don't mesh well together. That and the substitution pattern for Spain, where obviously exhausted players were left out there by the coach late in the second half, needs to be rethought. Spain has enough talent to make a substitution or two, even up front, to keep the attack going.

Senegal? Turkey? South Korea?

If one of these teams wins the World Cup this tournament will be remembered for a long time indeed

Senegal was the forgotten team from Africa with Cameroon and Nigeria getting most if not all of the pre-tournament hype. And what little was left over went to South Africa.

Turkey is another side like Ireland that plays hard and won't quit. They have better playmakers than Ireland and in that regard are more dangerous from midfield.

South Korea has taken to me a team that probably would not have advanced past the first round with the tournament held in Europe or Latin America, and turned the soccer world upside down with emotional victories over Portugal, Italy and Poland.

That 1-1 tie by the US doesn't look so bad now, does it? :laugh:

[Ian]

I think you will be proved right, at least I hope you will. Historically speaking every time Brazil have beaten England (3 times now, the last in 1970), they're gone onto win the World Cup.

Equally, it makes me an Englishman feel slightly better that we went out to the eventual champions. At the moment, I'm just so disappointed in how little we created in the second half. Anyway enough of my private grief.

[bulldog]

the truth is that Ronaldo and Rivaldo are seemingly on a mission to erase the embarrassment of that 3-0 final game against France in 1998.

to lose a match is one thing, but to get kicked 3-0 with 2 billion people watching and being the defending champ, has got to stick in your throat a bit.

[Yomar]

Not to split hairs but Ronaldinho was sent off with the score 2-1 already and he essentially scored both goals. Brazil can be beaten although I agree they are the favorites. Their D is suspect despite a strong performance against England and they are subject to the occasional mental lapse like when the defender all but passed the ball to Owen for England's goal. I think Senegal could be a good matchup if they can get by Turkey, they could pressure the Brazilian D with some speed, rather than the barrage of long lobs the English kept trying with modest success at best. But more than likely, Brazil will be champ again.

[Nighthawk]

Bulldog, Ronaldinho scored the second goal for Brazil on a free kick. He got booted 7 minutes later.

I would love to see Brazil win it but right now I'll root for anybody but the Germans. I just hope to see some good soccer and I'll be happy with that.

If Brazil does go to the final I'll be at the best Brazilian spot in the area watching the game live with their fans.

[Talent Wasted at a Desk]

Spain is looking pretty solid, now. (Of course, that being said, they'll no doubt lose tonight.) They have fewer weaknesses (and more depth) than Brazil. And fewer bucktoothed strikers.

If there's a Brazil/Turkey rematch, watch out. The Turkish team will do ANYTHING to avenge their unfortunate loss in game one. That is a good team with a massive chip on their collective shoulder!

I just feel that in a world cup with so many surprises, the champion won't be the foregone conclusion that it seems.

Heck, we looked better than Germany, and England were certainly at the same level as Brazil. Lesson: There are no favorites at this stage.

[redman]

Brazil has two traditional soccer powers, Germany and (to a lesser extent) Spain, and a surprising group of giant killers left in this World Cup in Turkey, Senegal and Korea. I don't think that any game is automatic for them, although I'd agree that they're the favorites over any one of those teams. Spain is probably the second favorite, followed by Germany.

I don't think Germany would beat Brazil, as I don't think they could score with them. I haven't watched Spain, but they've been a good team in World Cup obviously so I don't know what would happen in that match. Korea would be scary for them as they're fast, athletic, and clearly not intimidated to be competing against traditional powers on the world stage. I'm equally ignorant about Senegal, but my impression is that they're like Korea. Turkey probably has the least chance to survive for another round of anyone- while they're tough and physical, I'm not impressed by their overall quality of play.

[NavyDave]

I'm rooting for the other underdog Senegal and if they fail then the people from the land of stir fry bow wow.

Imagine if either one went all the way

I love chaos

[SkinsLegacy44]

There is still no unanimous favorite. Brazil has the best shot, but a strong Spanish team can easily beat them.

I am still cheering for the Koreans, since they helped us.

But I would love to see Spain win it all.

[bulldog]

Spain needs to rebound from the Ireland match, where they became unglued a bit once the Irish showed they weren't going to play dead.

it was lucky for Spain that the match went to penalty kicks, because if they had continued to play the fitness of the Irish players was definitely taking a toll on the Spanish.

I disagree that Spain could 'easily' beat Brazil under any circumstances. They have talent and can be competitive but a blowout game for Spain against Brazil is not something I see happening.

Thanks for the reminder about the ejection of Ronaldinho. I do remember now that he was escorted off AFTER that goal as has been said.

I found that to be surprising, that the referee would cashier a top player so close to the end of a match with implications for the next round.

I also want to see anybody but Germany win. Not because Germany beat the US, it just seems from the Germans I ran into at the beginning of the Cup in Europe that they were really condescending to the fans of other teams, even clubs in Europe like Ireland and Turkey.

Notice both of those clubs advanced despite the odds. And the Irish gave the Germans all they wanted in their first round match.

[Could'a, Would'a, Should'a]

Brazil only had 2 shots & scored from both, & that Ronaldinho goal was fluke of the year.

England were crap today but this Brazil side are far far from world beaters.

If Ze Germans win the comp it would just be terrible for the English as we beat them 5-1 in Munich to qualify for the world cup

[redman]

It sounds a bit like Spain lost in much the same way that we did: they had better and more scoring chances, but were beaten by the team that made the most of its limited opportunities, in this case Korea during penalty kicks. That's a heck of a lot less satisfying for them than it is for us.

I thought as of this time last week that Mexico was perhaps the team of destiny in this tournament. Obviously, the Red, White and Blue put an end to that. I'm now getting that sense about the Koreans who, with four wins in five games, including against powerful Portuguese, Spanish and Italian sides, have amassed four more wins than they'd ever had in World Cup play. I can see them beating Germany in a 1:0 or 2:1 match, or with a golden goal or on penalty kicks. That seems to be their MO, and Germany isn't exactly a team that has shown it can amass large leads on sides other than the Saudi's, who were the worst team in the tournament.

OTOH, they're winning by the skin of their teeth, and I still have a very tough time seeing them keep up with a team like Brazil. Still, a Brazil-SK final would be awfully fun, and would be an absolutely raucous event. And I think we'd have to pull for the SK's in that one.

However, the way this tournament has gone, we should rightfully have a Turkey-Korea final, and that would truly be the world turned upside-down. :laugh: