According to some idiots at a friend's work, Iraq is not a "real war."

[Baculus]

I have a friend who is a National Guardsman in a Maryland bridge-building unit. He's already spent a decent time in Iraq (and is slated to return next year), and has been under fire under several occasions. But, he's been getting grief, according to a mutual friend, at his wielding job, being told that he's not a "real soldier" because he's a guardsman, truck driver and equipment operator, and that Iraq isn't a "real war." That was the part that made me most incredulous - some of these folks feel that Iraq isn't a real war, whatever that is supposed to mean. And their attitude of the National Guard shows the complete ignorance of their role in the current conflict.

My friend, John, has had his truck hit by an RPG, has had rounds whiz over his head, and his sarge had a dude RPG round bounce into his vehicle. He spent a good deal of time in areas that were hostile. I don't understand the mentality that, somehow, my buddy suffers as an adequate soldier, or that somehow Iraq is merely some weekend wargame. I told our mutual friend that these idiots at John's work should go to the Washington Post and see the names of the number of soldiers, many of whom are in support roles, that get killed or injured by IEDs. But I guess, to these fools, since they didn't fire their rifle at the enemy, they aren't being a real warrior, eh?

I have no idea if these guys at his work would be considered right-wing or left-wing, but it shows a severe lack of appreciation for events and the men and women involved in them. (Some folks don't seem to take the hazards of war seriously enough, and some don't have an appreciation for those who have performed in war. It goes for both sides.) Some people here probably know my stance on the events leading up to the war, but it made me extremely angry to hear of my friend being insulted in such a fashion.

And, yes, my friend has already come to blows over such ignorance being direction toward him.

[yank]

Good for him. He doesnt deserve such idiotic disrespect.

[Thiebear]

By his accounts there has been no war since 1944....

Thankfully its been 60+ years of bliss.... :doh:

1/7th of the Countries in the world got together for a beach party.....

[du7st]

What do you think those opinions are rare? A majority of the people in this country doesn't know and doesn't care what goes on over there. They talk a good game and feel good about their stupid ribbons on their cars but that is the extent of their caring. Sorry to the military guys on this board but it's just BS posturing by the public to make themselves feel better.

[NYSkins1]

Originally posted by Baculus

I have no idea if these guys at his work would be considered right-wing or left-wing, but it should a severe lack of appreciation for events and the men and woman involved in them.

Ignorance is one of those things that straddles party lines.

[Larry]

Originally posted by NYSkins1

Ignorance is one of those things that straddles party lines.

Seconded

[Larry]

I will point out that there are, in fact, aspects of this war that at least make it different. Such as the lack of a clearly defined enemy. (Despite the White House's claims to the contrary.)

I have even been known to point out that war is a state which exists between countries, and that by that standard, this war is no more a war that the War on Poverty was.

However, I have absolutely no doubt that, regardless of some civilian like me's opinion of the correct legal position of war-ness, the bullets in this "new kind of war" are perfectly funtional, thank you very much.

And I've tried to point out elsewhere, here, that to me, the "support" people are just as much a part of this conflict as the more glamorous positions.

If, say, two friends join the military, and one becomes Airvborne, and gets killed in a firefight in Faluja, and the other spends four years running a supplies warehouse in Norfolk, then both of them were "doing what needed to be done", and deserve respect.

One of the things that (IMO) makes military service a sacrifice is, when you volunteer, you're not volunteering to do what you think is needed. You're volunteering to do what the Army thinks is needed.

[footballhenry]

Originally posted by Larry

However, I have absolutely no doubt that, regardless of some civilian like me's opinion of the correct legal position of war-ness, the bullets in this "new kind of war" are perfectly funtional, thank you very much.

And I've tried to point out elsewhere, here, that to me, the "support" people are just as much a part of this conflict as the more glamorous positions.

If, say, two friends join the military, and one becomes Airvborne, and gets killed in a firefight in Faluja, and the other spends four years running a supplies warehouse in Norfolk, then both of them were "doing what needed to be done", and deserve respect.

One of the things that (IMO) makes military service a sacrifice is, when you volunteer, you're not volunteering to do what you think is needed. You're volunteering to do what the Army thinks is needed.

yup and yup:cheers:

[NoCalMike]

The national guardsmen are definately "Real Soldiers" in today's times, as they are being sent over to fight in Iraq due to a shortage in troops. However, back during the time George W. Bush served, the national guard, in particular the group he was in, the "champagne division" was specifically for the wealthy to get a chance to dress up in a nice uniform and say they are a soldier, while never facing the the possibility of going to war.

[Larry]

Um, I suspect you might want to revise that statement, to refer to W's unit, since I seem to recall that being in the National Guard wasn't a guaranteed "get out of war free" card.

(I have read articles referring to that particular unit that way.)

[airborneskins]

Originally posted by Larry

If, say, two friends join the military, and one becomes Airvborne, and gets killed in a firefight in Faluja, and the other spends four years running a supplies warehouse in Norfolk, then both of them were "doing what needed to be done", and deserve respect.

One of the things that (IMO) makes military service a sacrifice is, when you volunteer, you're not volunteering to do what you think is needed. You're volunteering to do what the Army thinks is needed.

Larry this might be the first time that we agree on something..

Baculus, Although the active duty guys give the guardsman a hard time about not being real soldiers, It is all in fun.. However, for a civilian to come out and say that to him is just plain BS, and If I were your friend I probably would have punched him in his mouth. But seriously I have a whole lot more respect for the guardsman, b/c they spend more time overseas than the regular Active Duty soldiers. Tell your friend that I appreciate his service and tell him to watch his back over there.

[Leonard Washington]

if there's shooting on both sides and people get killed...its a real war.

[RyansRangers]

Originally posted by airborneskins

Larry this might be the first time that we agree on something..

Baculus, Although the active duty guys give the guardsman a hard time about not being real soldiers, It is all in fun.. However, for a civilian to come out and say that to him is just plain BS, and If I were your friend I probably would have punched him in his mouth. But seriously I have a whole lot more respect for the guardsman, b/c they spend more time overseas than the regular Active Duty soldiers. Tell your friend that I appreciate his service and tell him to watch his back over there.

I agree, Anyone who puts on the uniform is a soldier. Even though the jokes fly when enlisted men and guardsman are together, they are all on the same side. The way the Guard has responded has been impressive given how little they actually train for war. I served with many and they fought well. Every branch of the service needs the supply units and engineers, even though they are not a combat unit doesnt mean they dont see combat and get into fire fights. without supply and engineers there would be no ammo or water on the front lines and with out bridge builders tanks and HMMV's would be stuck.. Tell your friend thanks for the time served

[joe]

For the record, the department of Veteran's Affairs considers this a "period of war" for compensation purposes. The distinctions between peacetime and wartime service have blurred a great deal since world war II, but there are distinctions that are made by my agency.

And, for the record, National Guard service was, during the time of the War in Vietnam, generally considered to be a means to avoid service in the war zone. Not to disrespect the president's service, but I don't believe there is any true debate about that fact. I know this from first hand knowledge. I am old enough to actually remember.