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Posts posted by GOATFrerotte

  1. On 12/8/2020 at 4:25 PM, NoCalMike said:


    It's comparing apples to oranges though because we have no idea what Bosa's production would have been on this team as a rookie.  How often did the 49ers defense blitz linebackers that left Bosa in better situations to get to the passer? Bosa also lines up next to Arik Armstead who had 10 sacks as a DT.  He ended the year with 9 sacks so does that mean once the league adjusted to him his production went way down?  Young is a rookie and is learning the position against NFL caliber competition.  When you watch the film breakdowns and the reaction of the analysts they seem pretty sold on the guy already. 


    Are we really arguing that Young's situation is so different than all the d ends in the league and all the d ends that have been rookies before, that he simply can't produce more than he has? That's the argument we are going with. He has 2 sacks and 4 qb hits in the last 8 games. There is really nothing that can be said about that other than it's not good. Why this is even an argument is beyond me. I would think most people had higher expectations than that. 

  2. 22 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:



    There is no fault... this rotation makes the defense more efficient 


    It's about stopping the opposing offense to give the team a chance to win... stats are a result, not a goal


    If that's what you're going with then fine. But if you went in to this season after what we were sold on Chase Young expecting his pass rushing production to be this poor then we just had completely different expectations. 

  3. 51 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:



    He's not, you're ignoring it because it doesn't fit your narrative. 


    If Chase Young is not asked to pass rush on every play, then you can't get mad when he doesn't get a sack.  There are a lot of plays that his is not rushing the passer, he's got gap control, run defense, or edge contain.  Add to that a fair amount of times the other team is literally gameplanning to slow him down.  Additionally he does not play 100% of the snaps because we have the franchise leader in sacks playing the same position he is.  Bosa did not have Ryan Kerrigan eating up obvious pass rushing situations from him.  Look at Bosa's snap count vs Young... Bosa played 777 snaps his rookie season across 16 games, Young through 11 games has played 423.  Bosa played 76% of San Frans snaps... Young has played in 68%. 8 % may not be a ton but there is likely a very stark contrast in the situations he's one the field... hence the analogy of the batter getting ABs.  If he's not pass rushing specifically then there's a lack of opportunity for those all encompassing stats you're prioritizing. 


    Young plays primarily on downs that can result in a run or a pass so the assignments and responsibilities aren't "go get the QB."  Go back and watch the game yesterday, there were MULTIPLE situations where you could tell Young was intentionally not going up field.  He engaged the blocker, then stepped back and jumped into a potential passing lane.  More than once he took it away.  That's by design because we knew Ben was not going to sit back there and take sacks all game.  


    I like Chase Young. If it's the teams fault he isn't producing more than that's another excuse. The bottom line is his production numbers are not good. I have no clue why you guys can't just admit that, lol. It's hilarious the way you guys will skate around the basic fact that his pass rushing numbers are pretty poor and if you expected his numbers to be this poor when we drafted him then we just have different expectations. 

  4. 32 minutes ago, goskins10 said:


    That's just it. No one is making excuses. There is nothing to make excuses for. If you get 10 AB and I get 25 AB and you get 3 HRs and I get 6, who is better? That is not an excuse. If the other team runs 45 times and passes 28 you will have less chances for sacks than if the other team is the opposite. And there is also game plan. That is not an excuse. It's doing what you are told by the coaches and staying within the game plan. 


    So I took my shot at reasoning with you with data and logic. You have chosen to ignore both. So my last response here. Feel free to continue standing on the hill that has no foundation.  😂


    You're literally just making up stats. Let's just take last year first 12 games for Nick Bosa and look at the drastic difference between the two compared to elite rushers in the league. There's just no way to justify this other than saying Chase Young simply isn't ready to be a dominant pass rusher in this game. Was I hoping he would be? Yes. Is it disappointing that he is this far off from being one of the better rushers in the league? Yes. I don't know why that is an unreasonable position to have. 


    2019 First 12 games vs Chase Young First 12 games

    QB Hits

    TJ Watt 28

    Joey Bosa 22

    Nick Bosa 18


    Chase Young 6


    QB Pressures

    TJ Watt 46

    Joey Bosa 42

    Nick Bosa 32


    Chase Young 10



    • Haha 2
  5. 3 minutes ago, goskins10 said:



    I am only taking one shot at this - not sure why I am but here goes - you are missing the nuances of NFL teams and seasons. That season the 49ers were loaded at most every position and were blowing people out early on their way to a 13-3 record. So other teams had to pass much more and from behind. That means he had many more chances.


    Here is a little nugget - the last time Ben was sacked was against Baltimore - no not last week, in week 8!  What you have to do is what Jack did - rush 4 and play coverage. The goal was to keep Ben in the pocket and make him throw the short stuff assuming eventually he would make a mistake. And it worked. 


    This is not the 2019 SF 49ers. We have been the team behind a lot and by a lot of pts. So other teams run more and generally take less chances, also lessening his chances. Chase Young is playing with the confines of the defense becasue he is a good teammate and wants to win. Hence the reason Sweat is having a great season but that is a different topic. 


    So we have game plan and game situation that limit his opportunities but you want to do a one to one comparison. It's not a reasonable comparison and why pretty much everyone in the free world (Ok that may be an exaggeration 🙂)  but most people who know anything about the NFL agree he has been beasting it out. 


    Your expectations are not "just higher" than others, they are wildly out of proportion with reality and without taking mitigating factors into account. It doesn't matter to me becasue I am more than happy with his production. But you may want to get used to living with disappointment.  :cheers:


    Well we are washington fans, disappointment just kind of comes with the territory. I'm pleased with his leadership abilities and glad he'll be leading the team for a long time. Did I expect a special rookie season with large production from him, yes. Am I unhappy that we have to make all these excuses for lack of production like we do most Washington players over the last 30 years, yes. Would it be nice to have a player that you don't have to make excuses for? Yes. How those beliefs are unreasonable is beyond me. 

  6. 1 minute ago, OVCChairman said:



    no... YOU are bringing up your OPINION about what PRODUCTION provides value.  


    WE are trying to tell you that there IS PRODUCTION that you are choosing to ignore.  Stats lie all the time.  Jameis Winston broke records in Tampa Bay last year throwing for 5100 yards (319 ypg)... the team went 7-9.  Tom Brady is in the same offense and he's thrown for 3300 yards through 12 games (275 ypg) and the team is 7-5 and comfortably in the playoff race.  Is Tom Brady  not anywhere near Jameis? 




    Of course, however my opinion is numbers like, sacks, qb hits, pressures, knockdowns, hurries, etc. Why, in your opinion, those numbers don't matter is the bigger question than why I use those numbers. 

    1 minute ago, ExoDus84 said:


    Still, he's equally as good as Chase.





    DJ someone:





    4.5 sacks

    6 QB Hits

    4 Hurries

    1 Knockdown

    10 Pressures


    DJ Wonnum

    3 sacks

    8 QB Hits

    3 Hurries

    5 Knockdowns

    11 Pressures


    I mean, come on now. Any objective person can just say Chase Young should have a little more production than this. 

  7. 1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:


    How is it that the stats you like to cite have to do with production but the things that are counterpoints to your argument have nothing to do with production?


    It appears like you're wrong but you're too stubborn to admit it so you want to frame the conversation to your narrative rather than admitting you're incorrect.


    It's impossible for me to be wrong. I use objective numbers. Nick Bosa was one of the most double teamed player last year yet his production numbers were in line with the best players in the game, not just rookies. There is literally no argument you can make that puts Chase Young in the same category as Nick Bosa. And to me that's what I was hoping to get out of our #2 draft pick and it hurts me that we might have more of a Clowney (just a freak athlete who makes a play or two every now and again) than a Bosa. 

    • Haha 3
  8. 4 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

    Today has been a valuable day on ES. I learned how to add someone to the ignore risk. Go to your profile. Click on, 'Ignored Users'. Type in the username and click on the right person. Specify whether you just want to ignore posts, mentions, their signature, etc. And click, "add". Simple-ish. 


    Anyway, a lot of people talk about the lack of sacks vs pass rush win rate and double team rate etc. There isn't nearly enough conversation about his run defense. It is literally game changing. Without Chase Young on the goal line, we probably lose against Cincinnati and Pittsburgh. He's just been a beast against the run. 

    I think the one criticism of him amongst draftniks was that he didn't have an elite motor. I loved that Baldinger highlight reel above. Chase has an elite motor at this point. He is chasing guys down on the far side of the field, downfield. We had just the right DL culture and DC to draft and get the most out of Chase. 


    Grown men making statements about putting others on ignore because they disagree about a players production, lmao. I've seen it all now. 

    12 minutes ago, Rskins91 said:

    Do you know why you get tagged? Because you have a **** take and continue to stand by your **** take EVEN after data and numbers show you're wrong.


    I've still yet to see you acknowledge the tweets CLEARLY demonstrating Chase is doubled at a rate equal to Khalil Mack, with a pass rush win rate the same rate as J.J. Watt, Justin Houston, and Demarcus Lawrence.


    All you are bringing up is excuses for a lack of production. My argument is his production numbers are pretty bad. There is no way around that. You can believe the excuses you come up with or you can be like me and be disappointed that the numbers are so bad regardless of the reasons. I had higher expectations from our #2 pick. I don't care about his double team rate, his pass rush win rate, or whatever weird PFF stat you can come up with that avoids the discussion about actual production. 

    • Haha 1
  9. 23 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:


    Jesus. You're like the sports forum version of a Russian bot. Look at how much better the defense is this year with very few other personnel changes and more injuries than we had in the beginning of last year. Look at who is getting doubled. Look at that pass rush win rate vs double team rate graph. Look at PFF scores. Look at an actual game. You're literally just trolling. 


    Can someone remind me how to find the block function? I couldn't find it in a brief search. 


    I'm not trolling at all, I 100% expected Chase to be as good or better than Nick Bosa. He isn't even close, like it's not even a competition on who was better. That is not trolling at all. I just had higher expectations than you guys. You are fine with late 1st round early 2nd round production. I was hoping for a #2 pick game changer.

    • Haha 3
  10. 6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

    Touching the QB just feels like a really arbitrary measure considering Young ranks really high up in metrics like pass rush success rate and his ability to defend the run stands out and easily passes the eye test.


    A pass rusher getting to the qb seems like a pretty objective measure to me. And considering his production at getting to the qb is about the same as DJ Wonnum, a 4th round draft pick, and not even in the same ball park as the #2 pick last year, it's not unreasonable to expect more. 

    • Haha 1
  11. 2 hours ago, Rskins91 said:

    Found @GOATFrerotte‘s alternate account. 


    He touched the qb once two weeks in a row. I guess that's a start. For a reference point, TJ Watt has multiple qb hits in 7 straight games. I guess your guys expectations are just very low. But you're the 3rd person to bring my name up this week when I wasn't even saying a word about Chase. Guess you guys want me too. 

    • Haha 3
  12. 1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:


    Cause sacks aren't the only way to measure impact, lol. 


    I'm not even using sacks. Pressures, qb knockdowns, qb hits, etc. Whatever way you look at it his pass rushing has been pretty mediocre considering what the #2 pick did last year. That's all I'm saying, but you guys can't handle it without crying about it in every thread. It's embarrassing.

    • Like 1
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