skinsmania123

23 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

 

When I listened to that John Beck interview, it didn't leave me hopeful that he can change significantly.  If your QB coach says that "he knows its a problem" and then follows up by saying, "I'm not sure it can be taught" - that doesn't leave me hopeful.  It implies that Jayden has talked to his coaches about it, and that they aren't sure what to do about it (obviously, I'm speculating a but here - but it seems reasonable).

I don't know. I can't wait to hear the process they went through to come to their decision, whoever it is. 

Just now, KDawg said:

Mild curiosity…

 

People who are in the Jayden Daniels camp and can’t fathom why anyone would be worried:

 

Can you not see people’s concerns with Daniels?

 

And those of you in the Maye camp:

 

Can you not see Daniels potential?

 

I feel like these things get ignored in this convo when people are all in for one or the other.

 

 

I said the same thing relative to Daniels. But I think your 100% right about Maye as well.

I guess the thing I don't get @KDawg is if there is so much concern about injury risk, why wouldn't you take Maye over Daniels?  

  I don't think it is worth taking a guy that could burn bright for a season or two and then crumble, literally. 

I am glad I am not making the decision.  I have already admitted I am leaning more towards Daniels.  

11 minutes ago, jg77 said:

 

RG3 and Richardson are injury prone and both missed time in college. RG3 even tore his ACL at Baylor. 

 

Yeah Jayden is slight but he's missed one game in 55 starts.  The kid is tough just watch the videos of him chasing down defensive players after they pick his pass.  He has that dog in him.

I think some of the videos of Jayden getting blown up being that "dog" in college have been overemphasized, to the point that his competencies and assets are overlooked. I do agree with posters that point out that some of his tendencies will NOT fly in the NFL. He will be destroyed if he does that in the NFL. But with that said, he has made some adjustments to his game, which means he is not too stubborn to learn. RG3 in my opinion, is a very fixed stubborn personality. Sometimes you just have to adjust to thrive.  I am thinking JD can with proper coaching, and relying on his teammates.  

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

 

Yall are easily played. All they need is one new athlete or parent to see their names and remember them next time around and its worth it. Dude is going #2 or #3 overall most likely and now yall cant stop talking about his agency. Its free publicity and I guarantee not one team cares about this guys agent if they think he is that talented 

I thought the same thing earlier in the thread. Why would he care if goes 2nd or 3rd? He sure doesn't care. After all the **** this kid has been through, he is just happy to be here. I have never, until now, heard anything regarding character concerns. Geez it is almost like a re-run of Williams and his mother.  Bring on the draft.  

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

There is no room for equivocation on this.  This FO and coaching staff need to understand that they are 100% married to this QB prospect.  If they want to keep their jobs, then they need to find a way to make it work.

I know not all evaluators of QB talent are always correct and trust our FO to make the right decision. I mean even watching Daniels play and Maye play I have clearly walked away with different observations then a lot of posters on here. And I will admit many of you on here know a lot more then myself. All I have is my own perceptions based upon what I see. I admit I am a just fan of NFL football.  

But I did go out my way to support Daniels because I think he is better than Maye at this juncture and I believe in his ability to further adjust, so I see a lot more upside for him with proper coaching and good conditioning.

With that being said I noticed that Kiper, was all in on Daniels in comparison to Maye.  I think he has made some good observations.  Some of you have even pointed out that at times that Maye is inconsistent and does not always deliver the ball accurately.  Also, I agree Daniels had superior receivers, but he delivered the ball accurately. 

This is what Kiper said:  Mel Kiper Jr. debates value of Jayden Daniels, Drake Maye as NFL Draft prospects (on3.com) 

“Drake Maye had three games, even after Tez Walker came back — Clemson game, Virginia game, NC State game — I keep harping on it because I went back and looked at those games time and time again. I said, ‘OK, why were those throws not accurately delivered?’ There was no reason. I think you look at Jayden, how many games like that did he have? Zero.

2 minutes ago, ILikeBilly2 said:

Jim Plunkett won it, beating out Joey T.  Plunkett won two Super Bowls beating Theismann in one of them.  Joe must really hate running into Plunkett at a party.  

I know. I was screwing around with one of the posters.  

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

He had two superstar WRs

I am going to say your 100% correct about that. But you still have to get the ball them in stride.

4 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

So but here's something else to chew on.

 

If he adjusts, how much does that adjusting lower his ceiling.

 

If he gets out of bounds or slides earlier to avoid big hits, how much does the delta between him and Maye/JJ decrease in the mobility aspect?  And how does that change the totality of them as prospects?

 

And how long does he have to change his game before his current game catches up with him?  Can he make those changes quickly?  Dropping ones eyes because you learned to take off running for 5 years is a lot of muscle memory to retrain.  We hit Maye for not being pro ready because of his footwork, is Jayden thus not pro ready?  Sure, using your legs like that CAN result in better plays than having bad footwork, it will create a lot of positive-yard-plays but how long does it take to retrain and during that interim, how much more danger is he in?

 

Maybe the answer is, he flips a switch and instantly throws instead of running off, and when he does run he's protecting himself but he's still just racking up so many first downs we don't miss the 40% less yardage he gets per rush to help protect himself.

 

But you gotta analyze that with running QBs, because when the alternative is a prototypical QB who needs a little work but otherwise is everything you normally want in a QB prospect, you better have positive answers for the above questions.  The opportunity cost is large.

One of the reasons that Daniel's won the Heisman was his pass completion rate.  Also, when you look at the number of yards he threw, as I have said in other posts, the yards were comparable to both Williams and Maye.  So, it is not as though he can't complete passes accurately and just takes off. That is just not true. 

But he has used his legs more because he is a dual-threat QB, and they designed plays for him. He will have to make some adjustments.  I really do not think it is going to take a long time. He can rely on his ability to pass and to be accurate. This is why I think we really need to pick up a big, bodied receiver and an excellent TE receiver. And I think he would be great with Terry and Jahan.  I really think this guy can be coached up. Some QB's can't. 

One concern I have is the strength of our O line. If it is not substantially better than it was for Howell, and we draft Daniels forget it. He would develop so many bad habits, all the concerns you are raising will happen.  But they already added some pieces, and they will add more through the draft. 

I think we could run a very fast offense with him. He is ahead of some of the other prospects, and yes, he has played longer in college, and right now that is a plus.  So, his development is key. That to me is the most important element for any young QB who comes into the league.  I think we have the coaches to get the most out of him and ensure longevity if he listens. 

2 minutes ago, bh32 said:

Montana didn't win no Heisman...lol

LOL! Your right do you know the two QB;'s that did?

3 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Jim Plunkett is the last one.

 

That was back during the Lombardi days.

And Roger Staubach I think.

1 minute ago, bh32 said:

Heisman don't mean squat in the NFL either..list all the QB'S that won the Heisman and also won a SB.

Two and he will be the third.  Joe Montana is one. 

2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

His only game when **** goes sideways is to run. He never avoids the rush, resets, and throws. He never escapes and throws on the run. He pulls down the ball, stops looking downfield, and takes off running. That is not going to work in the NFL. It’s going to get him killed.

I can't figure out how he had so many completions then. The guy won the Heisman. He had an amazing year, and I think it is transferable even though some on here actually said college stats don't matter. Yes, completions matter. The ability to use your legs in the modern NFL matters.  

I don't think he is going to get killed in the NFL. I think he will continue to make adjustments like rookies have to. I think the will pass the tests. 

6 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Outside of Lamar (and JD ain’t Lamar) the quarterbacks who use their legs, predominantly do so to buy time and then beat you with their arms. His only game is to run.

That is not true. He threw for more yards than Maye, as a comparison.  Caleb threw for around 4,500 I believe and he threw for about 3,800.

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The point is that he uses his legs too much and in bad situations and/or uses them improperly and puts himself in a position to get hurt.

 

Your running should be a supplement to your passing, not a necessity to function.

He had just as many yards passing, meaning comparable to the top prospects.  Caleb Williams had 4,500, and he had 3,800. Maye had around 3500.  I have not checked the other QB's on running the ball, but he definitely had about 500 more in terms of yardage in running the ball then they did, if my memory is correct.  So, his running is not supplemental IMO to his passing.  

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

When he has a clean pocket and open guys? No.

 

When he's pressured? Absolutely he does. And that shows in the numbers as well. He was at about 50% run when pressured vs pass or sack, which is a huge amount. You can see it in the tape as well. Often when he's pressured he's very quick to pull his eyes down and look to run, regardless of whether there's room to stop up or slide in the pocket or if there's an open guy downfield after he gets moved off his spot.

But isn't that the beauty of having a QB that can use his legs?  I mean how many QB's get pressured and fold like a cheap tent? I think that is the beauty of this guy, and what @Dah-Deeposted agree with regarding Daniels.  Does he need to make some adjustments? Yes.  Does every rookie QB that comes in have to make adjustments? Yes. I know many of you think he cannot adjust.  He already did. Can he make more adjustments? Absolutely with a decent staff. I think we have the right staff plus Mariotta to get the best out of Daniels if they choose to go in that direction. 

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Most NFL QBs do not get hit like this every Sunday

 

 

As @Rufus T Fireflynoted it's also the way he takes hits and how his body reacts to them. Some guys have a natural instinct to get compact and tighten up when they get hit, but some guys are the opposite and basically splay out and flop like ragdolls when it happens. That's how Daniels seems to be. It was also how RG3 was. It's a bit concerning because that's going to open you up to more potential ligament and joint damage. 

Honestly, and I just said it, I think he will adjust on this level.  I don't see the same personality as RG3. And I still think he took a lot more unnecessary hits at Arizona. I kind of agree with what @Llevron said about him not taking certain risks and playing a bit more like Mahomes. I think he can be coached up.  I do not think RG3 took coaching. I think Daniels has and will.  

4 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

But for how long?

 

Do you believe he can realistically be our quarterback ten years from now playing the way he plays?

 

Do you think his arm talent is good enough to abandon the run first mentality and pick defenses apart with his mind and arm while keeping them honest by exploiting huge holes in the defense with off script runs while sliding after a 25 yard gain like the quarterbacks who enjoy longevity do?

 

I don't see it but if we draft him I'll hope for the best.

I think anyone who views Daniels as having the potential to succeed in the NFL would have to also acknowledge that he needs to continue to adjust so he can realistically be our QB years from now. The question is do we have the QB coach, O Coordinator, conditioning staff who can work with him so he can have longevity.  And I say yes. 

Does he really have a run first mentality?  I looked at the top prospects passing numbers, and I admit, only from last year, and they were all fairly comparable in terms of yardage. Where he exceeded was of course in the "off script" running you mentioned. His total yards were around 5,000.  I honestly think he can. He has already made some adjustments. And more adjustments can be drilled into him.  

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

No the MF got cooked. Repeatedly LOL. He did make an effort at the end of the season to slow it down but that was like half a season. Dude was looking to make plays and be safe second. I dont actually think thats coached out of him. He even sticks his head in there when he throws a pick. Like hes like one of those puppies that hes he is still 10 pounds but hes 120. But in reverse. He is a reverse puppy. 

Fair enough. That was a great analogy. I had to laugh. But I honestly I like him and I think he can stay healthy. 

10 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

He still took massive hits after transferring.

I just watched what you posted, and I see stuff like that every Sunday with QB's. The bottom line is can they get up and continue?  I know Andrew Luck couldn't after a few years. 

And I hope that is not Daniel's.  I just don't see him as RG3 except from a dual-threat perspective. That one video, the guy was barreling down on his head and got called for it. If that **** happens every week, find me any QB in the NFL that could take hit after hit like that and not be horribly injured.  

Who do you think they should take if not him?  

Just now, SoCalSkins said:

This is not a at all true. Look at the hits Daniels took this year. The guy seeks contact and at his size won’t finish an NFL season. 

I have watched a lot of tape on Daniel's at LSU. Can you direct me to a few?  Because I did not see then as massive at LSU.  Sure he took some hits, they all do.  To me it is how you handle it. 

1 minute ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

He still took massive hits after transferring.

Fair enough. But IMO most QB's take some massive hits. It is part of the game. Point is he handled it at LSU. In Arizona he was crushed. 

2 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I don't want to keep rehashing the things that have been said 100s of times int his thread, but "slide more" isn't a solution to the Daniels/RG3 problem, which is not having the instinct to take hits properly. 

 

The rest of what you posted really has nothing to do with anything I said. 

That is fine I have not been on here for a few days because of work, so my apologies.  And just to be clear. All I am saying is that I think Daniel's has made adjustments in his game so I am not concerned about an injury.  But I 100% the rehashing gets old. And you have solid takes. I can't wait for the draft...lol!

3 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Few have ever relied more on their legs than JD. It’s the only game he has unless his first read is open or his Oline gives him a perfectly clean pocket.

I mean he had over 3,800 yards passing last year.  Compared to 3,600 passing yards for Maye. I mean yes, Daniel's had a lot of rushing yards, but his passing yards were comparable to other QB's. 

2 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I'm not making the case that he is RG3 (though as I've said the similarity that concerns me is the way they take hits). But there was a ton of glowing stuff about Griffin before that draft. It's one reason I got on board after not liking him much for most of the process, that he was supposedly this super humble and great person. 

 

Griffin had a great deep ball at Baylor, btw. I'd have rated him well better than Daniels at that one skill. 

Yes, I agree about the hits with RG3. The guy did not even know how to slide.  And it seems based upon everything I have read that Daniels has changed his approach, so he does not take those types of hits like he did at Arizona which led to those injuries. I can see the concern, however.  

I used to think that RG3 had a good long ball, but what happened after he was injured?  He just did not seem able to make that adjustment to just being a drop back passer because of the prior injury.  He did not make those reads accurately, so he took a lot of sacks.

And if your opponents, like when he was at Baylor know the threat is there for him to run, the type of pressure is different.   

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yep. 

 

 

I mean come on, how many RGIII parallels can there possibly be?

 I think they are very different personalities. RG3 was stubborn and not willing to make adjustments. Jayden Daniels has proven to be the exact opposite. He was injury prone at Arizona. When he went to LSU he took feedback. He learned to protect himself and not take unnecessary risks. He changed his conditioning routine; he changed his diet to add more muscle for durability. 

And most of all, even if he does run, and you do need a dual-threat QB in this league, just watching him his first and second instinct is NOT to run. How he has evolved as a player is really overlooked a lot IMO. Unlike an RG3 and more like Kirk Cousin's he has evolved as a player. 

And he has a solid long ball. No, it is not the best, but it is decent.  I think with this type of personality, and dedication to his craft he will evolve and continue to get better.  

I am okay with either Daniels or Maye.  

1 minute ago, spjunkies said:

 

Sorry no, they all have something to prove. People could say running the 40 could improve their prospects and they failed to do it also. Maye also has the footwork drawback which hasn't been cleaned up.

 

Maye is supposed to have great speed, put it out there for us to see.

 

They all have their particular red flags, it's up to Peters and his team to figure it out.

 

I think there is a big difference between possible physiological limitations, and the potential to be damaged goods, which is how Daniel's is being described by some and correctable issues such as the footwork drawbacks of Maye's.   

Sounds as though some believe Daniels will not survive in the NFL. That he is too frail. We know what happened to RG3 because he did not know how to protect himself.  But RG3 was also a super stubborn personality IMO and did not make certain adjustments.  I wonder based upon what Daniel's has learned in his long college career, and the adjustments he made in terms of his conditioning and adding muscle, if some of that won't transfer over to the NFL.  He needed to put on more weight and muscle. He has a good arm and can make the throws. 

Honestly, I would be happy with either Maye or Daniels.