The Consigliere

That's fair, when I think of Randall, I think of him more 1987-1990 rather than '85-'86, not surprised he was a bit on the thin side coming out of UNLV. Did he have crazy broad shoulders, or more crazy shoulder pads? He always seemed like he was running around like a Quetzalcoatlus

I wasn't speaking to flag or not. Someone else brought that up and I view it as totally immaterial. If you lose your franchise QB to another RGIII like knee debacle, you're not gonna give a ---- one way or the other about if the refs made the call right, or if they pulled an angel hernandez. No penalty called or uncalled is making up for a dumb --- career ending injury. My deal was, like you, wtf was he thinking? The Super Dave analogy is very apropos, much like Rufus' looney toons reference. On what planet does that make sense? You are going to get smashed periodicially in this league and it isn't gonna be your fault: sometimes you just don't see the guy coming, as our franchise became notorious for in 1985. You can't avoid that, but the reason people keep showing the 3 or 4 hits on repeat over and over is because they're all utterly inexplicable and moronic. They are all Jayden Daniels as "Brian Moorman" getting smashed by the late great Sean Taylor at the pro bowl" level stupid, but even worse, because at least Moorman was running into a God of hitting, playing on God Mode/Pete Rose All Star Game Setting at the pro bowl. In Daniels case, he keeps getting smashed over and over in multiple games, Moorman vs Sean Taylor style for no reason, in totally avoidable fashions over and over again against Joe Random players. Moorman was stupid enough to do that once, and never again, Daniels seems to make a habit of it, in the same freaking season, game to freaking game. It's beyond stupid, even if it just happened 4x in college, it should've been 1, and if you are being blown apart like Wile E Coyote, after you impact the ground following falling off the cliff, there's clearly something wrong in your approach. The guy is literally being ripped apart like the Sun going Supernova, over and over again, its beyond ridiculous. Even if it's a half dozen times or less, it's hard to find that many "Holy ----!" hits on any single individual player in their entire career, let alone a season or 2. And as you and I say, that run against FSU into the line? Seriously? That's Super Dave Osborne load me into the cannon at the carnival level stupid. It's literally impossible to even understand watching it, what the hell he was thinking.

I say this while acknowleding everyone everywhere in the league disagrees w/this take, but watching Howell, and watching Daniels and looking at the CV's, I 100% prefer Howell. If he can get the pressure thing under control, I have little doubt he can be a league average QB and maybe better. I think he showed last year what he could be with adequate talent, playing hard around him, he was consistently in the middle to low middle of most of the analytical categories one cares about, and the #'s only really slid during the team's quitting phase of the season (late November and December) from where they were the first 10-11 games. I'm deeply fearful that Daniels just may not make it in this league period, or may not be healthy enough to stick. I get that the league 1000% disagrees, but I view Howell's floor as significantly higher, even if his ceiling is 100% lower. Maye on the other hand, I view as having both the higher floor and higher ceiling.

Maybe RGIII didn't do leg day? Daniels just seems really, really whispy thin. When I saw Vick, and especially Lamar, and Randall, they just looked like coiled muscle, thick and strong, RGIII and Daniels seem more like track guys, slim and twitchy explosive, but without the thick musculature.

Yeah, I missed that game, I think I was following along on pbp, never saw it.

I could see that, but they are going to show the most vivid, holy ---- hits. It would be nice if they dug through the ASU games to find more though, I agree, but again, if you are that clueless running, doesn't matter if you're flagged or not. Ngata wasn't very nice on the play that started the end of RGIII's career, and flagged or not, the problem was RGIII risking that, not that players are sometimes scoundrels when it comes to hits, Howell took one of those last year as someone on here mentioned this past week, and considering it can happen to anyone at any time, best to avoid self-induced Super Dave Osborne moments to compound the physical risk.

I could buy the Daniels angle simply from the fact that their coach is a former player (relatively recently) and vets hated dealing with rookie hiccups. That's a stretch I know, but I could imagine Mayo wants a QB who can just walk in and start, period. Otoh, definitely feels like Maye is a better QB for that type of fan base (-------'s), and for that type of weather (New England, and Buffalo seems worse in terms of weather than New Jersey/Washington DC). Praying we get Maye. I would laugh if they traded down, but I tend to doubt they will, it would just be too far unless it was NYG to justify the move.

And as an oldster (I'm curious what the floor is on the ages of posters heres? I'd imagine 25-30?) I can tell you, with Caleb, while I didn't like people overreacting to him crying with his mom or painting his fingernails, it is worth noting: he doesn't have ideal size (which can be a problem) and he's at bare minimum, got a real quirky personality, and if it's actually more "mental make up is an issue" he could bust. I bet on his talent 1000% but am I as confident on him delivering on his potential as Luck or Lawrence? I am not. Luck and Lawrence didn't send off any warning signs about anything off the field at all, period. Zilch. Caleb's has some mild rumbling here and there, enough to drop me from 90% sure he's at least average to elite, to around 80-85%. There's some risk, and I imagine the Bears simply sent their due diligence guys to dig up everything on his off the field habits to make sure they don't find themselves dealing with a Justin Blackmon or Ryan Leaf scenario.

You're really that dedicated to that interpretation of what the take away should be on that play? I watch that and I see someone w/the same ability to avoid body trauma as Super Dave Osborne. That's the take away, not that that evil meanie on FSU decided to hit the idiot who decided to run head first, upright, into a gigantic pile of defenders and thank god there was a penalty.

Remember to avoid looking too closely at my fingernails when you open the hatch.

That's what I was getting at with my kerfluffle with another poster a few days ago regarding why I don't give a ---- about most of the knocks on Maye. Most, not all, but most, are related to things that are nebulous, in the eye of the beholder, sometimes just bull----, and consistently something easily resolved, if a problem, at the next level. We can point to zillions of guys with weird releases or odd footwork over the years that were just fine, either because it worked for them, or got coached up from Rivers to Rodgers, from Mahomes, to Herbert, and I'm sure if we dug up every QB that hit over the years, while there would be some, that had beautiful, and clean throwing motions and feet, there would be a majority that did not. It just doesn't seem sticky when it come to guys that become special. Could there be a dustbin filled with guys that didn't hit, and that was the reason why? Maybe, but I'm skeptical, for most busts, there's an absolute litany of things that explain the failure, I can't remember many if any that were strictly mechanics failures. It's why I don't care. It's not that I want Maye, so I'm ignoring honest criticism, it's that I like Maye, and have noticed a trend line for decades that guys picked at for these reasons, tend to hit anyway, if they're any good. If they're good, it isn't consequential. I'm a lot more worried about things like pressure 2 sack ratio which are sticky as a problem, unlike mechanics and feet which can be improved with repetition and coaching and reps (and sometimes it ends up immaterial), and Maye is a problem there, just like Daniels (just not as bad). I'm also concerned, a little with only 2 years as a starter, I'd prefer 3, but it's not a Trubisky situation, so I'm not overly concerned....but yeah, p2s, that worries me, some alarming accuracy #'s, that bothers me, there are definitely some metrics, i would have preferred 3 years as a starter than 2, but yeah, that quote is yet another lovely example of why the Maye stuff doesn't bother me to the same degree as the stuff on Daniels...There was that yucky Maye stat someone posted yesterday afternoon with Maye was it unpressured? I can't remember, but let me cosign on the fact that yeah, that would bother me too. I'm not a Maye uber alles kind of person, as mentioned earlier, I'm more about collecting and sorting the piles of alarming data, and trying to avoid the guy with the ones I most closely associate with busting. Both guys have some, Maye just has more of the sort that scares me, that's all.

Looking at an old cbs article on betting odds movement at the time, and its a bit different from that. And really weird, obviously some bit of news, rumor hit monday night/tuesday morning to radically change perceptions of where Levis would go, and then said information went down the toilet within about 48-64 hours. It doesn't appear Levis was ever exactly the favorite to go #1, looks like it was always Will Anderson at least the final week, but there was a brief period from Tuesday morning to some point during draft day that Levis surged into a near even status with Stroud....That has the feel of someone trying to get Stroud to drop? The equivalent of this weekend (sunday): Odds to go #2: Will Levis +1000 Will Anderson +170 Stroud +170 Bryce Young +400 Richardson +200 Bryce Young +400 Tuesday Morning before the draft on thursday: Will Levis +270 Will Anderson +150 CJ Stroud +260 Bryce Young +860 Richardson +2000 Thursday afternoon, day of the draft: Will Levis +1000 Will Anderson -320 CJ Stroud +200 Bryce Young +4000 Richardson +600

Florio can't hold Edelstein's jock, he remains the GOAT, even in death, of totally incompetent insider-dom.

Yep and who are the league sources. Its quite clear there's some people that love Maye, some that like Daniels, and some that like JJ...additionally you have plenty of people saying that most of the people talking are ex-GM's, ex-scouts, ex-front office guys, and that guys in our specific building like someone when we know our building is basically locked down until our pick. I don't think it's clear, and I am worried there's JJ surprise potential too. Also on playerprofiler's podcast the other day, there was a nice betting point that was brought up: Basically there's a strong perception, 80/20 that the Chargers are going OL, and yet the betting markets have Alt at like -1200 or something to go in the top 5, Fashanu even less, while Nabers apparently is like +175 to go in the top 5....how does that make sense? Widespread perception is somebody is gonna move up for Nabers, and the Chargers are moving down for OL help rather than drafting a WR at slot. It's hard to figure the forest for the trees right now.

I wouldn't care one way or the other as long as it wasn't the full season. I'm very much invested in us winning 3-5 games rather than 6-9, it will serve the long term build much better to be picking top 10, top 45, and top 75 on day 1 and day 2 in '25.

I like them, but think it needs to be underlined that what it is is basically tape grinding w/an outlined, clear process for grading, and standardized procedures, not just joe random saying what he see's/thinks from viewing a couple of games. I like it for trumping that, but it's still, premised upon people interpreting what they see on tape, and grading it. So i like that it has baseline standards, but I still lean towards more analytics.

The problem with 11 is that the top 2 WR's are definitely gone and at least one and possibly two OL's. It's too big of a drop. Arizona shouldn't trade down from 4, they should trade down from the Texans pick (unless they want an OL).

Gotta say, you learned me something here lol. Then again, I've never worked in any fields where I was flying anywhere. I've always checked bags, but I only fly on holiday, but I wonder if that's an error it's easy to make, or something everyone should know? I definitely didn't know about it until Cowherd referenced never bringing checked bags ever.

Or we could take the guy that required five years to do what Maye did in his first.

I wonder if this is connected to DraftKings taking Maye off the board. Starting to get paranoid that nobody really has a clue, and the market could shift dramatically with sharp money at any second for or against Drake. I am surprised they didn't take both Daniels and Maye off though. Or just plug Daniels into an o/u 3.5 bet, but then again everyone would take the under and they'd get smashed. Crazy times.

Well Minnesota would be a way way better landing spot. Far too often these guys don't understand how important landing spot is with career. Just getting the higher selection in a draft isn't the end all be all of anything, you want to land with a smart organization. That being said, if nothing else, we know our FO/coaching is already much better than its been at any time in the past decade and probably past 35 years (the Shanny's brought in a ton of genius talent, but we still had a ---- owner, and an idiot for a GM).

Not many shy, possibly introverted dudes are diva's in my experience. Not a fan though, regardless.

It's not great, but to be fair, if he's as good as his fans in the league think, then this wouldn't sway me, but since I'm not a fan to begin with, this is a tiny little box to the side I'd check related to "due diligence off field checking". It's bothersome, but it wouldn't tilt me on the pick unless my background checks on the guy suggest it is reflective of his mental make up in general (and as I've said before, Caleb and Jayden get at best, neutral personality grades from me, while JJ, and Drake, superficially get positive ones. That being said, they know who these guys are a lot more than we do.).

I get why people argue to start him from day 1, if we sit him till Halloween, it wouldn't bother me any, I suspect we need another two quality draft hauls after this one to turn this thing around, flushing September/October down the toilet for the '25 class is fine w/me, but I know I'm a weirdo compared to most on the subject of tanking. I'll take multiple ---- years without a second thought if it staunches the bleeding from 31 years of misery. I can do 2 or 3 more easy if I know the architect can actually build with the assets we provide him through tanking.

So the same thing as PFF.