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Yeah, there's many ways to skin that cat. I truly think it's a difficult trade to work out. Cleanest would be for NE to get #13, #44 and O'Connel from LV, then we get #3, #77 and a 2025 1st from LV for the pick swap. A. Not sure NE would do that without a future 1st B. If you add a future 1st to NE from LV, that makes this trade really tough to execute, since I don't think LV gives up 13, 44, 77, 2025 1st and 2026 1st PLUS a player If NE likes O'Connell to try and groom and build around as a stop-gap option, they may value him enough to make a deal like that go down without future picks involved. Then that leaves the future picks to us.

I 100% get the angst over OT, but this ^ is why I’d prefer to trade back a bit with one (or both) of our 2nds versus trading up. You could potentially land one of each of those, plus 2-3 other guys. And then our 5ths can go towards 1) guys that fall, 2) raw, traitsy guys that can understudy for some of our 1 year deal FAs, or 3) pure depth/competition, perhaps even double dipping at certain spots.

Totally agree!

All is well, my friend. Take deep breathes. It will be ok.

Without a good QB, you're on the hot seat every year.

Id want more. It's not enough. If the league consensus, wrong though I think it, is Daniels easily #2, I want more than a mid 2nd for moving to 3rd, whether I like Daniels or not. Which is funny, in dynasty, I just try to get trades done quickly, but w/this, I'd be more like my older brother, trying to strangle the life out of my trade partner to force the Godfather offer lol.

I don't think Washington would move down 1 spot for #44. The would have to either give up #44 & 2026 1st, Adams or Crosby.

At this point, we should all just band together and create our own scouting and analysis service.

If Antonio Peirce makes that trade, he will be on the hot seat before the season even starts. High risk gamble IMHO.....

I went back and watched more tape. Maye has an impressive (though not as good as Williams) ability to do more than just laser his throws. McCarthy does have an issue at times but I saw plenty of throws on tape, short and intermediate (and some lofted deep) that suggest the ability is there and has been demonstrated. The real franchise QB was the fanbase of contentious louts we met along the way

The league makes the same mistakes all the time. Its Allen and Herbert all over again. Teams are terrified of high upside but raw prospects because they don't trust their coaching and can't see the forest beyond the trees. Maye will end up in New England and by 2026 be putting up Pro Bowl caliber seasons and everyone will be shouting "how the heck did we let the Patriots get good again!?"

For the record, that was not the trade I was suggesting, not that it matters in the end as anything spurs discussion and your points are valid. My example was a 3-team trade. Vegas gets #2 New England gets #13, #77, 2025 1st, Aiden O'Connell Washington gets: #3, #44 LV gets 714 points in value, gives up 678 NE gets 543 (valuing AOC as a 4th), gives up 514 WAS gets 649, gives up 717 Of course we lose out, LV makes out, but in the end we get an additional 2nd and presumably get the guy we want anyway.

It’s not about the QB we draft tonight, it’s about the journey and friends we made along the way in this thread.

Not close for me, if I'm trading with the Raiders, I want 3 future firsts and at least another future 2nd and future 3rd on top of this year's 2nd. They say no, I say, I'm good. The raiders are a mess of a build with some good vets, a handful of good youngsters, and mostly crap. We empty out their pockets of futures and it's like the Nets-Celtics trade from years ago, Golden Loom stuff, yes please. Im not doing it for less than a H. Walker style overpay.

Reworked a few position rankings to better match up with my gut takes. WR and S specifically. Then I came up with this tier ranking for the QBs: Tier 1: 1 - Williams 2 - Maye Tier 2: 3 - Daniels Tier 3: 4 - Penix Jr 5 - McCarthy Tier 4: 6 - Nix Tier 5: 7 - Rattler Tier 6: 8 - Pratt 9 - Milton Those tiers are based on how speculative I think the QB prospect is, and I made breaks in my Big Board where cliffs in prospect quality happen, and the speculative QB tiers become appropriate to draft. This is my final, no-hindsight top 100 Big Board: 1 - Caleb Williams 2 - Drake Maye 3 - Brock Bowers 4 - Malik Nabers 5 - Marvin Harrison Jr 6 - Jared Verse 7 - Rome Odunze 8 - Taliese Fuaga --- (Tier 2) --- 9 - Jayden Daniels 10 - Dallas Turner 11 - Laiatu Latu 12 - Quinyon Mitchell 13 - Nate Wiggins 14 - Brian Thomas Jr 15 - Olu Fashanu 16 - JC Latham 17 - Cooper DeJean 18 - Blake Corum 19 - Cooper Beebe 20 - Kingsley Suamataia 21 - Byron Murphy 22 - Joe Alt 23 - Darius Robinson 24 - Amarius Mims 25 - Johnny Newton 26 - Terrion Arnold --- (Tier 3) --- 27 - Michael Penix Jr 28 - JJ McCarthy 29 - Xavier Legette 30 - Graham Barton 31 - Ladd McConkey 32 - Kool-Aid McKinstry 33 - Troy Fautanu 34 - Jackson Powers-Johnson 35 - Chop Robinson 36 - Jordan Morgan 36 - Payton Wilson 37 - Tyler Nubin 38 - T'Vondre Sweat 39 - Kamari Lassiter 40 - Edgerrin Cooper 41 - Kris Jenkins 42 - Troy Franklin 43 - Bralen Trice 44 - Sedrick Van Pran 45 - Austin Booker 46 - Jonathan Brooks 47 - TJ Tampa 48 - Braden Fiske 49 - Kiran Amegadjie 50 - Jonah Elliss 51 - Zak Zinter 52 - Christian Haynes 53 - Keon COleman 54 - Audric Estime 55 - Trey Benson --- (Tier 4) --- 56 - Bo Nix 57 - Ricky Pearsall 58 - Ben Sinnott 59 - Mike Sainristil 60 - Cole Bishop 61 - Max Melton 62 - Junior Colson 63 - Patrick Paul 64 - Jeremiah Trotter Jr 65 - Blake Fisher 66 - Mason McCormick 67 - Jamari Thrash 68 - Roman Wilson 69 - Cedric Gray 70 - Malachi Corley 71 - Chris Braswell 72 - Renardo Green 73 - JaTavion Sanders 74 - Tyler Guyton 75 - Dadrion Taylor-Demerson 76 - Caedan Wallace 77 - Roger Rosengarten 78 - JaLynn Polk 79 - Jarrian Jones 80 - Sione Vaki 81 - Ennis Rakestraw Jr 82 - Tykee Smith 83 - Marshawn Kneeland 84 - Michael Hall Jr 85 - Beaux Limmer 86 - Cade Stover 87 - Zach Frazier 88 - Jacob Cowing 89 - Malik Washington 90 - Isaiah Adams 91 - Johnny Wilson 92 - Kam Kinchens 93 - Tez Walker 94 - Khyree Jackson 95 - Elijah Jones 96 - Brandon Dorlus 97 - Xavier Worthy 98 - Jalen McMillan 99 - Javon Bullard 100 - Kendall Milton

At some point, you think the Celtics would play smarter and learn from past failures. Maybe Tatum and Brown have no bball IQ.

I may jump on Verse at +6000 first D line taken on FD.

Nate Tice breaking down his thoughts on Drake Maye. Is shocked by everyone really turning on him (at least in media) and thinks he has all the tools. Makes several good points. Good point about his UCL tear. He was doing well, to the point where I'm confident the Niners beat the Eagles if they have him, he gets back to the SB after recovery. There are people here and elsewhere who have pushed this 'narrative' and 'bias' with Purdy, and I'm going to have to chime in and say the way people discuss him, there is definitely a bias at play. I do think being Mr. Irrelevant doesn't help him in the media, but there's more going on.

I’m not sure I’m following. I mean, I get that screen passes matter, but wouldn’t it, for example, be fair to ignore screen plays to better judge accuracy? Now, I’d still wanna know how accurate they were on screen passes… If two players throw the same amount of passes, but one throws a screen 10% of the time, and the other 40%, wouldn’t you question a narrative that says the first guy was asked to do less? I’m not saying you should necessarily draw a conclusion from that info per say, but I’d at least say that data point seems to refute the narrative.

Found CNN.

Alito, arguing why absolute immunity could be necessary, said among other things that if an ex-POTUS can be taken to court, "...during the trial, the former president might not be able to engage in activities he wants to..." 😐

Just curious as to what you see that might limit his ceiling? I personally don’t see much, he has a strong arm, he is accurate, and he’d be one of the top 7 athletes at the qb position in the nfl. He does need to learn to change speeds on his throws more often when needed, but I feel that can be learned. Maye for example does change speed on his throws, but when he does it, his throwing motion changes considerably and it looks more like he his aiming it rather than throwing it, and personally, I feel that this leads to some of his accuracy issues. I’m just not really seeing some major hurdle that would limit McCarthys ceiling, and I feel he might have the highest floor in the draft. I’d love to hear what you think would limit his ceiling, that way I could watch some film of him today, to see if I can see the same issue

This has literally never been what great vision meant until now lmao wtf guys

A bevy of final opinions from multiple experts and sports personalities on who we should draft…