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Cut or Keep - RB Edition

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TK

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Cut or Keep - R. Kelley vs Mac Brown  

24 members have voted

  1. 1. Which one stays & which one goes?

    • Keep Kelley - Cut Brown
    • Keep Brown - Cut Kelley

Zoony threw this question out last night around the 3rd QTR in the Game thread. 

After their rain soaked performance last night against the Bucs, who do you Cut & who do you Keep? 

Think of it as the ES version of either F/M/K :ols: or Highlander - There can only be one.

Below are their per game rushing stats:

Against Atlanta

RUSHING
ATT
YDS
TD
LG
R.Kelley
7
40
1
18
M.Brown
7
28
0
7

 

Against NY Jets

RUSHING
ATT
YDS
TD
LG
R.Kelley
3
8
0
6
M.Brown
2
7
0
4

 

Against Buffalo

RUSHING
ATT
YDS
TD
LG
R.Kelley
12
51
0
9
M.Brown
11
43
0
15

 

Against Tampa Bay

RUSHING
ATT
YDS
TD
LG
M.Brown
19
149
1
60
R.Kelley
16
99
0
14
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No clue. Both have looked pretty solid, especially last night. 

That run from brown was one of the more impressive runs I've seen in a while though. Has me leaning towards him.

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Need to keep both of those guys, bottom line who in here is comfortable with Jones being available for all 16 games.  I am not.  Honestly Jones has showed us nothing as exciting as Kelly and Brown this offseason.

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This shows how bad our rb situation is.  We were near the bottom of the nfl last yr in rushing and we lose our #1 rb to dallas.  So our #2 becomes our #1, our #3 becomes our #2, and we want to keep these 2 and one of them wasnt even drafted.  Considering we should be towards the bottom again im not sure it even matters.  Anybody got a coin to flip?

Edited by HtownRocks111
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I like both the rb's, before yesterday I would have said put brown on the practice squad but after last nite no way. 

 

Reason on being why both- is simple. Matt jones injury is his shoulder and I can see that injury becoming troublesome and not going away. 

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Jones is a JAG to me, so we should keep these 2 over him.  But going with the question, I wanna keep Mack Brown but you could probably flip a coin for real.  Who is better at pass protection and blitz pick ups?

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Kelley seems like he can pick up the blitz better. Key aspect of our offense. Brown knows "where" to pick up the blitz but not "how" to do it yet.

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Kelley so far has the slight edge in my book.  Big runs are nice but consistently getting positive yards is what I want and Kelley seems better at that.  He also seems to have the edge in pass blocking.  Haven't been many ops to watch them as receivers, I'd guess Brown would have the edge there.

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One thing I noticed last night was Brown wasn't taken down by the first person to hit him, I counted on one carry, it took 4 guys to get him down.  Really looked good against the Bucs, however he and Kelly were playing against 2nd and 3rd rank players.  Was our OL 2nd and 3rds that much better than the Bucs?  It is a good thing when your backups that probably are not going to make the team are so much more advanced that the other team. Think about it these guys are backup level or maybe not even going to make this team.

Yesterday was a ground game day, what we used to call "Redskins Weather."  Something at bothered me was practicing in a bubble, how would the team hold up in really cruddy weather, I think this game answered that question.

Who do we keep?  Man that is a hard question, both Kelly and Brown really looked good last night.  Finding holes and exploiting them.  At this point having seen 2 games in person I'm going to have to go with Kelly.  No reason just a gut feeling watching both of them play.

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Here is what I don't get.

 

we had 1 fullback on the roster (Joe Jerridge) and reportedly Niles Paul could play that role.

If we aren't keeping a true FB, then I think we actually have a possible 4th spot for a RB Which to me means we could keep JOnes, Brown, Kelley, and Thompson, at least for week 1.   The fact that we are stronger at Tight End this year and might be able to cut Paulsen I think also adds to that.


The rub?   DO you keep 6 WRs between: Jackson, Garcon, Crowder, Grant, and Ross.... with Dotson as #6..  or do you drop Ross and go with 5? I don't think any of us would say take thorpe or kendall thompson over Ross . Harris I think is PRactice squad bound.


So I wonder.

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I really like Kelly because he can pass block . Brown was impressive but againt who ? 

 

But it there are tough cuts comming and I think is a shuffle . Do we need 3 qbs, 9ol etc to keep a brown then you might loose Paulsen or Everet ...

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Neither.  First I'd put Jones on PUP.  Then let the young backs do their damage for the first 6 weeks.  Why Jones still has his spot is beyond me.  Both young backs have shown more than him and they haven't fumbled

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I went with Kelley as well, just because we saw him against (slightly) better competition. Really like Mack Brown though.

Btw, Matt Jones had a really nice preseason last year and everyone was extremely excited about him going into the season. Guess we all forgot about that. Mmmmmmhhmmmmmm. :table2::ols:

 And where's my teleprompter TK? That's some terrible shipping speed, I'm going to send an email complaint! I'll do it!   

 

 

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We aren't going to keep all 5 of these guys

Matt Jones  
Chris Thompson
Mack Brown
Rob Kelley
Keith Marshall 

So what I would do is IR Keith Marshall and keep the 4 others. So when I looked up Marshall's stats I didn't realize that this was already done two days ago. So really our RBs are

Matt Jones  
Chris Thompson
Mack Brown
Rob Kelley
Keith Marshall

And we are sure our best bet is only to keep 3 of those guys? Someone please explain to me why we would do that?

Our presumed starting RB is injury prone and wasn't effective last season, I've already posted stats showing just how ineffective Matt Jones was last year which if you don't know is eye opening. Thompson spot is safe on the roster. So you basically have three guys who haven't ever looked good when it counted so what exactly do we have here?

I think our best bet here would be to keep all four of those guys on the 53 and go into the season letting all three get carries and figuring out who is worth giving 15 chances a game with the rock. By waiting until someone looks ineffective and then releasing that player during the season will allow us to stash him on practice squad later. Right now the tape looks too good with Brown and Kelly that we couldn't do that so why not wait until one looks like a jag and then cut that guy later? If you had to pin my feet to the floor I would rather keep Brown over Kelly  

 

Edited by bobandweave

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Remember one thing about this game with Brown's running, that one 60 yard scamper inflated his stats.  With out that run, and it was nice but it really makes his stats look a lot different.  Take away that one run and you have.

Brown 18 carries for 89 yards

Kelly 16 carries for 99 yards. 

I'm not trying to diminish his run for 60 yards, it was great, he made a lot of guys miss then just took off outrunning a lot of defenders.  To be honest I was surprised at his speed, he is for sure a good mudder :rofl89:

Adding up their totals over the preseason gives you

Kelly 38 carries for 198 yards

Brown 39 carries for 227 yards (with the 60 yard run)

Pretty close, the next thing you need to look at is pass blocking, Kelly is much better at this than Brown.  I didn't attend TC this year so I'm only going on what I've seen during the preseason and I saw a couple of really good blocks by Kelly, I admit he did miss one that almost got our QB sacked, but both are rookies and you expect them to be in a learning curve.  Here I think Kelly learns a bit faster or is more talented at blocking, not sure which.

Both are tough runners and made some defensive players miss, and it looked like it took more than 1 to bring them down.  I counted 3 guys trying to bring Brown down and he didn't hit the ground until the 4th defender got there.  One tough cookie.  I didn't watch Kelly as closely as I watched Brown because he has just made that 60 yard run and he really peeked my interest.  The few carries I did watch Kelly he made yards after contact.  I would love to see both make the 53, but if I had to pick one I'd take Kelly because he seems to be more advanced at this point.  If I really had to make that choice I'd use a coin and that may be the method that the FO and coaches come to.

 

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21 hours ago, MassSkinsFan said:

Have they by and large been running behind the same OL unit? 

Have they by and large been running against the same defenders? Kelly has gone up against the 1st string.  I think there really is no question between these two. You keep Kelly. And IMO Kelly should be starting over Jones.

Edited by nonniey

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To me it's about availability. I haven't seen anything from Jones to make me believe he will produce more than either Kelly or Brown, honestly. Jones has had all of one exceptional game in the NFL. He's had a few exceptional plays. He's had more injuries and missed time than he's had great games or even plays. A guy with injury issues and fumble issues that now has a sprained shoulder, likely affecting his ability to hold on to the rock when you know opponents will be game planning to rip it out every chance they get. 

I'm 100% certain Jones will start week 1 if deemed healthy. I'm also 100% certain I would be just as happy with Kelly #1, Brown #2 and Thompson as our change of pace/third down back with Jones on the PUP. Jones has a higher ceiling, but so far all I've seen from him is fantastic athletic ability coupled with zero durability and poor vision/ability to set up blocks. 

What I've seen from Kelly and Brown, especially in game 4, was patience and vision. That ability to make the quick hop step or slide when they get the ball away from a defender beating an o-linemen, which essentially eliminates that one-on-one loss, and then they find a hole and pick up yards. It is equivalent to  a QB with pocket awareness that steps up in the pocket to allow a pass rusher who has won outside to go right by. The tackle may have lost the battle but the QB covers it up with a simple deft step or two. It's no different for a RB. Too often last year and what I saw in preseason was Jones trying to run around that man or through them. Morris often did this last year too. 

Kelly and Brown excelled last week at simply sliding away and allowing the linemen to run the defender by them and then finding the open hole. Patience and then precision to the hole at just the right moment to squeeze through into the second level. These two are no world beaters and Jones actually looked solid in his few carries before injury, but to me, I've seen as much from Kelly and Brown as I have from Jones and most importantly I believe they can stay on the field. What I don't want to see is we cut one of them and then two weeks into the season Jones is hurt again and we're down to Kelly/Thompson or Brown/Thompson. 

Give me the young, hungrier player who is not injury prone at the position well known to be the most brutally punishing in the league to the body. I've seen zero evidence that Jones' body can stand up to the challenge.

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The coaches and McCloughan are seeing something in Jones that I guess we aren't seeing.  They have spent a lot of time coaching him on the proper methods of holding the ball to keep from fumbling and a lot of reps with the first team.   I figure they are a lot smarter then I am when it comes to football, so I'm willing to wait and see how it comes out.  Having Kelly and/or Brown as a back up plan isn't a bad idea.

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3 hours ago, HapHaszard said:

The coaches and McCloughan are seeing something in Jones that I guess we aren't seeing.  They have spent a lot of time coaching him on the proper methods of holding the ball to keep from fumbling and a lot of reps with the first team.   I figure they are a lot smarter then I am when it comes to football, so I'm willing to wait and see how it comes out.  Having Kelly and/or Brown as a back up plan isn't a bad idea.

I'm willing to buy in that he's gotten better at holding on to the football - it's been his focus all offseason. But this league is very "prove it to me." Defenses focus on takeaways no matter what. But when they smell blood the DeAngelo Hall's of the world attack the football as much as the man every single play. Defense look to swarm and stand a guy up so they can rip the ball out. You can bet defenses will look to do that all year until Jones proves it's not an issue. It may very well not be right now but as a running back if you have a sprained shoulder that's absolutely a factor in being able to hold on to the ball. 

Bottom line, I know I'm more down on Jones than others. A part of it was a bias that we just handed him unearned carries last year and effectively started the changeover from Morris based on zero production from Jones aside from just him being big and fast. I'll admit, I was a bit of a Morris homer. But again, a player that is always available and effective (even if not a homerun hitter) is of huge value to me. It just annoys me how much the coaching staff and front office seem to anoint this guy and put him on a pedestal when, to me, he's done nothing to deserve it. To me, he's an unproductive, injury prone running back who fumbles the football that doesn't make plays on his own. He makes big plays when linemen open truck sized holes for him then continue blocks at the second and third levels. He looks great carrying cornerbacks another two to three yards. I'd be ecstatic if he became a great back. But I haven't seen anything other than what I just said and it bothers me that HE is the one guy our front office and coaching staff seem to have anointed and strayed from their "earn it" mentality that they employ with every other player at every other position. He's earned absolutely nothing, given more reasons to doubt than anything to have faith in. And yet this front office that is so deadset on work ethic and toughness and earning every inch (which they should be and I love) gave up on a late round productive back that earned everything, had an outstanding work ethic and was always healthy for a guy that looks great in shorts and a T-shirt...so far nothing more than the "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" cliche. And for what? He's a third round back. It's not like we dropped a top ten pick on him. I'm not advocating giving up on the guy but hell, I think there is a damn good argument for Kelly to start over him week 1, healthy or not. 

Back to the topic and as I said above - I find a way to keep both Mack Brown and Kelly. They're both healthy and productive. Kelly has been very good in pass pro. And there is a 100% chance Jones misses time this season, potentially even the opener. If Brown leaves to sign elsewhere because we cut him to put him on the PS, when Jones gets hurt you're looking at Kelly/Thompson and some veteran off the street. Not terrible, but I'd rather have two running backs that I feel comfortable (enough) giving 15-20 carries per game if needed. Thompson is not that guy, he will/would get hurt playing a major role as well. I love him as a receiver out of the backfield and on some third down draw plays, but he's proven he is fragile and not an every down back as well. 

Edited by moondog

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If we were to keep only 3 running backs, I'd honestly rather just cut Thompson.  You know he's not going to be healthy for an entire season and doesn't bring that much value as a home run/receiving threat on 3rd down.  I think Kelley and/or Brown can more than fill his role adequately, and do so while having a much better chance of staying healthy for all 16 games.  

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