Ford Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 This is total crap. Why does someone feel a need to do a big 'address the nation' deal when in effect it's just a pathetic ploy for votes. I suppose it's smart of Bush's advisors to try and boost his popularity after bipartisan accustions of his shortfallings leading up september 11 have been surfacing, but it's really quite pathetic. I'm not going to say who's right or wrong on that issue, but I just wish he would spend more time being president and less time worrying about 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Why do you liberals b1tch even when you get your way? Democrats trying to bring down his popularity have been asking what he was going to do about homeland security and now he has called their bluff. He took all of those liberal and conservative ideas off of the shelf and put them in this bill which is in my opinion govt expansion which I do oppose. The ideas were leaked to the press so he did the smart thing and put it out so the media and America could hear his vision in his own words and put Congress on notice to get to work passing it. The problem is going to be liberals and conservatives Rice Bowling like the CIA and FBI will try to continue to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtandler Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Originally posted by FordHQ I'm not going to say who's right or wrong on that issue, but I just wish he would spend more time being president and less time worrying about 2004. Taking steps that you think will better protect our nation from terrorism is not in the president's job description? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Posted June 7, 2002 Author Share Posted June 7, 2002 actually im not a liberal, im a complete moderate, though admittedly i do hate ultra-conservatives more than ultra-liberals. To place all the blame on liberals is flat out wrong. People from both ends are calling for an investigation. Conservatives called for an investigation about clintons friggin sex life, and now you object to an investigation into whether or not there was ignored information? This is a pathetic cry for votes. To call it the biggest or most important or however he worded it govt shakeup since 1940 is a perfect display of his idiocy. Lyndon Johnson's Great Society reforms will trump any piddly thing W does. If you think im some ultra liberal youre wrong. My preferneces in terms of presidents this past election went 1) McCain 2) Bradley 3) Gore 4) Bush Bush is an oppurtunistic, moronic, deceiving idiot. If we have to deal with his reelection i think i will vomit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Posted June 7, 2002 Author Share Posted June 7, 2002 Originally posted by rtandler Taking steps that you think will better protect our nation from terrorism is not in the president's job description? I agree with protecting the country but not on infringing on civil liberties like Bush and Ashcroft would love to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman55 Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 You are removing all doubt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 When have Bush and Ashcroft infringed on civil liberties? Liberals can still eat their tofu and think "progressively." Quite honestly, I really wouldn't give a damn if a government official is reading this post as I type, because I'd rather give up a few minor rights to prevent an outbreak of smallpox. Liberals have been screaming about mistakes before Sept. 11, but they also say that they don't want the rights of law enforcement agencies expanded whatsoever. They've also been screaming for better homeland defense, and now they come out and say that this is a ploy for 2004? Sorry folks, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You being a moderate, wouldn't you be happy with the fact that he mixed liberal and conservative ideas into this bill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtandler Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Originally posted by FordHQ This is a pathetic cry for votes. To call it the biggest or most important or however he worded it govt shakeup since 1940 is a perfect display of his idiocy. Lyndon Johnson's Great Society reforms will trump any piddly thing W does. And the Great Society wasn't an outright attempt to buy votes? I certainly pray that Bush's effort to eradicate terrorism is more successful that LBJ's notion that pouring a trillion dollars into welfare programs that discouraged work would eradicate provery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Posted June 7, 2002 Author Share Posted June 7, 2002 Yes rtandler, putting money in to people is stupid .. that crazy New Deal thing .. man did that screw things up! What was FDR thinking! We should put all our money into defense and locking down the borders to keep those damn arabs out, right? Or am i reading into you wrong? OrangeSkin .. why do you keep blaming things on liberals? Watch where you're pointing that finger, as I've noted criticism is coming from BOTH SIDES. What setting up something like this will give way to the extreme jingoist feelings of the moment. People are pissed off, understandably, but are calling for overly drastic measures due to this heroic bull**** bush is trying to preach. This is nothing more than a ploy for votes. It's not a conspiracy theory. Just look of the timing of the speech. Bush is nervous he's going to lose all this support he's garnered up through his 'valient' propaganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtandler Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Originally posted by FordHQ Yes rtandler, putting money in to people is stupid .. that crazy New Deal thing .. man did that screw things up! What was FDR thinking! We should put all our money into defense and locking down the borders to keep those damn arabs out, right? Or am i reading into you wrong? Yes, you are reading me wrong. Certainly there is a role for the federal government to take care of its needy citizens, even though that is not among the enumerated powers vested in the federal government by the Constitution. But the safety net that the Great Society was supposed to be turned into a hammock. And, no, I don't think that locking down our borders to "keep those damn Arabs out" is the thing to do. I do, however, favor a reorganization that would make it less likely that those who have been identified as potential terrorists would be allowed into the country and that people with student visas are actually attending college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 I'm not blaming anything on the liberals. It's the liberals that are blaming everything on Bush, despite the fact that Clinton didn't do $hit about defense during his time in office. I was simply saying that they're the first ones to point the finger and lay the blame on Bush because they still claim that he "stole the election." Funny how they want an investigation and all this BS about the slipups before 9/11, and then when Bush comes out and gives them what they want, it's suddenly a cry for votes? Gimme a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Posted June 7, 2002 Author Share Posted June 7, 2002 I don't speak for liberals so don't start this 'they' crap. If you ever wanted to find out what my political views were, you'd find out I'm very balanced, I just strongly disagree with you here. I don't base my views around a political party so the fact youre saying 'they' this and 'they' that and now youre saying 'this' has no credibility. You can't say I'm getting what I want because you have no idea what I wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman55 Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 FordHQ when you go off to college, I hope you do your homework better than this . #1. Do you really think this just started in the year 2000. Clinton was offered Bin laden twice. From 1993 to 1995 bin laden was offered to clinton by Sryia. He declined according to CIA reports. During that same time we had CIA info that they wanted to fly planes into buildings. bipartisan accustions of his shortfallings leading up september 11 have been surfacing By FORDHQIt was just the Left including Mrs Clinton saying"what did he know and when did he know it" Bullsh!t. They all have recanted there sentiments. Because the Liberal head of the Intelligence committee gets the same freakin info POTUS gets. Hilliary should answer her own ? posed to her nearly 3 years ago that she still has not answered. The purpose of the speach was to garner public support to get congress off their @ss to get this new Dept. done by Oct. 1 The date congress ajourned. This is a ground sweeping task. This is going to take power away from different people in Washington . Not easily done. Finally, FORDHQ I would advise you to read the Wash. Post only for it`s Redskins news and thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Posted June 7, 2002 Author Share Posted June 7, 2002 Bringing my age into this shows the lack of strength in your argument. That's just being low and pathetic, on top of the incoherent crap that you posted. Again, don't try and make out the liberals to be the only ones making accusations. If there is nothing 'rotten in the state of denmark', then what's wrong with an innocent little investigation? What would you be afraid of, if youre so sure of yourself? The Washington Post is on of the three most respectable publications in the country along with the NY Times and the LA Times, what do you read, the ultra-conservative washington times? Cause I prefer not to read a publication run by the head of a cult, but that's just my own personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Political and religious topics should be banned from the board... you guys who start these posts are just a bunch of blabber mouths who want to spread your own agenda. HQ you are such a hypocrite... saying 'Bush just wants to preach" and here you are shooting your mouth off. And you don't even have the balls to come clean, hiding behind a 'moderate' label. Shame on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Posted June 7, 2002 Author Share Posted June 7, 2002 Mike, sorry for having an opinion. Because discussing politics and what affects this country is stupid, really. Who cares about that, right? I may not agree with orangeskin or rtandler, but i respect their opinions. You can often tell much about a person by their political views, and I enjoy discussing it. Please don't tell me what to talk about, and if you don't like the topic, you don't have to read it. If the mods want to move it or delete it, that's their decision, not yours. Hypocrite? That's a big word for you, isn't it? The nature of my using the heroic stuff bush was trying to preach, wasn't to say that he was expressing his opinions, because that mike, is what people GENERALLY DO. I was saying he is being oppurtunistic and using a horrific event to try and get support. Agree with it or not, that's my opinion. Say I preach if you want, but the fact you disagree with the notion that I am motivated to extend discussions beyond football, is truly sad. And you are labeling me a liberal based on one issue we are discussing. You sir, are a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman55 Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 I think I answer the misguided premises to your original post. "Innocent little investigation " no problem if the Admin. did something wrong they should be held accountable. Something the last Admin. ...... never mind "That's just being low and pathetic" doing your own research is never pathetic. Just remember that 80 % of the media is liberal. In the wisdom of FORDHQ , lets have a investigation so we can point fingers instead of solving the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 My what a polished politician you are. Congratulations on rambling for two pathetic paragraphs while not once addressing the issues at hand... Fact is that which you accuse Bush (opportunistic) is the very same you are! Taking advantage of his speech to immediately run to your keyboard to spout your garbage on a sports board shows how truly opportunistic you are. Fact also is, weasels like you who hide behind a moderate label so that you can spout your garbage under the guise of one who would be unbiased ought to just come clean, stop embarrassing yourself, and reclaim whatever dignity you have left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Diesel Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 I have to agree about the hiding behind a "moderate" label. I'm so tired of this. I don't believe that you are truly a "moderate". You are, imo, much more liberal than conservative. You're basically spouting off liberal claptrap throughout this thread. It's obvious that you have a strong dislike and prejudice against things conservative. Take for instance your cheap shot at the Washington Times. The Times is no more conservative than the Post (or the NY Times or LA Times for that matter) is liberal. If you really can't see that, then the odds are you are a liberal. And trust me, just because you wanted to vote for John McCain doesn't make you a moderate. John McCain was/is the "screw the Republicans and make them look bad" choice for many people who are liberals. John McCain is no more conservative than your average Democrat these days. In fact, the admission that you wanted to vote for McCain makes your "I'm a moderate" claim even more suspect, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Posted June 7, 2002 Author Share Posted June 7, 2002 Ok .. if I'm a liberal let's talk about my stance on quotas in affirmative action. Let's talk about my stance on how Title IX is enforced by the OCR. Let's talk about my stance on the death penalty. Let's talk about my stance on free trade. I may hold more liberal views than conservative when you get into issues like censorship, abortion, RELIGION and seperation of church and state, and welfare, but by no means am I strongly liberal. In fact every test I've ever taken which plots your position on the political spectrum has labeled me moderate and ever so slightly to the left. I will never associate myself with either political party because neither represents enough of my view correctly, though if a gun was put to my head, yea, I'd be a democrat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin' Skin Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Guys, the more you use labels like conservative and liberal, the less you discuss issues and ideas. By labelling yourselves liberal or conservative you deny you own God given right (or american forefather designed right) to make your own minds up about a vast array of complex issues. By identifying with a group you buy into a herd mentality in life. DON'T DO IT! If you manage to listen openly to someone elses opinion AT LEAST you can clarify and define you own. My major concern about Bush is his penchant to paint issues in black and white that are in fact GREY. He is too intelligent to believe that, so I am left with the impression he is talking down to me, not giving me any credit for independent thought. That's sad and unnecessary. P.S. I hate conflict when I'm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Posted June 7, 2002 Author Share Posted June 7, 2002 you make a great point ramblin skin. im guilty of getting caught up in the label game. Unfortunately MikeB is guilty of getting caught up in staying within his idiot label Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaFunky1 Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Originally posted by FordHQ If you think im some ultra liberal youre wrong. My preferneces in terms of presidents this past election went 1) McCain 2) Bradley 3) Gore 4) Bush 1. Not sure what he is, but he isn't conservative. 2. Flaming anti-freedom liberal 3. Moronic, tree hugging, drank too much tea, anti-freedom liberal 4. I thought he was conservative, but he has me more than a tad confused at the moment. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Posted June 7, 2002 Author Share Posted June 7, 2002 Originally posted by DaFunky1 2. Flaming anti-freedom libera Peace Here's what I don't get about those who are really far on the right. They call gun control anti-freedom, yet they call censorship crap like the communications decency act (voided in reno v. aclu 1997) saving our children. whats the deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaFunky1 Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Hitler used gun registration to disarm the Jews prior to WW2. The Japanese did the same thing in Nanking prior to disarming them and killing 500,000 innocents. The Soviet Union established gun control in 1929. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. Gun registration and licensing has roots in racism after the civil war. The southern whites in power did not want blacks to own firearms so they required registration and authorization, read here gun permits, for people of color to own one. 25,000 state and federal laws on the books and crime continues to be highest in states with the most "gun control" laws. States that are shall issue states and those that enforce the laws have seen violent crime drop. Just because I state that I think someone is anti-freedom does not mean that I am a far right winger, actually I probably have more libertarian leanings these days than strictly conservative. I agree with John Locke... life, liberty, and property. Take the test... see where you stand... http://www.guntruths.com peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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