Renegade7

When Can We Get Out of the Alex Smith Contract???

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16 hours ago, max21 said:

Jesus people, we are 5-3. We didn’t lose the game today because of Alex Smith. 

Im sorry, but in what universe ware we ever going to beat the "average 30 points per game" atlanta Falcons, when scoring 14 points?  Are you seriously suggesting we had any hope of winning that game with an offense that can only score 14 against the 3rd worst defense in the league?

 

Ill wait.

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JP Finlay was on Kevin Sheehan's podcast this morning and he said that he had been "unofficially" asking around and he says that there is zero talk/consideration in regards to playing McCoy, but that "internally" they are very frustrated with Alex Smith.  

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Just face it folks we severely over paid for that used but trusty Acura...anyone whom thought the culture has changed is wrong we were all dooped by the front office again to think we may have a contender.....just to get some of our Butts (I’m one of them) in seats for at least part of the year ...signing Alex Smith was never to help build a quality football program but to keep us fans just a bit interested enough to fill the stadium somewhat and buy the over priced everything. We can make all the excuses we want about injuries, Smith not being in thebsystrm very long, refs etc....but the reality is Alex Smith is no better or worse than how he’s played for the passed 13 years in general we however have put us in on a direct path for mediocrity the next few years because of of the arrogance of this front door office they would rather give off an illusion of being good rather than maybe not having a good season or two to potentially build a contender...

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4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

JP Finlay was on Kevin Sheehan's podcast this morning and he said that he had been "unofficially" asking around and he says that there is zero talk/consideration in regards to playing McCoy, but that "internally" they are very frustrated with Alex Smith.  

 

That is exactly what I'd expect. It's 8 games into essentially a 3-year run with Smith. And, the team is 5-3 so you can't exactly bench Smith for a journeyman backup QB who isn't that much younger. If we fall out of contention, you could make the case for it then (like with Grossman/McNabb in 2010). But even then, unless they are seriously considering starting 2019 with another guy, I'd want Smith to get reps!

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@bobandwehave

I was venting, so there was quite a bit of exaggeration in my post. Obviously they won't cut Alex Smith if the cap impact is the same as keeping him. I'd be all for having him mentor another QB, but it looks like that will be a mid round pick at best. Add in that this looks like a down year for the QB position, which always gets pushed up the draft board and I'm worried about just having a less talented QB prospect behind Smith, which lowers the probability of things panning out. Either way, there's a chance we go through Smith and another QB doesn't work out before Cousins contract is up. There's not really any way to look at that in any positive way. It just sucks. 

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9 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

JP Finlay was on Kevin Sheehan's podcast this morning and he said that he had been "unofficially" asking around and he says that there is zero talk/consideration in regards to playing McCoy, but that "internally" they are very frustrated with Alex Smith.  

 

If you watch the All 22 there are some deep throws open, but either the ball is already out or he's looking short. 

 

My issues with Smith are that he's just not aggressive. I think he looks deep when the short is covered or when it's a designed shot down field. Good QBs are always looking for a reason to go downfield where I feel Smith only does so when he's forced too. 

 

Kirk had his limitations. His pocket awareness was poor and as plays wore on he did not improvise well. With that being said he would make players better and still take his shots. 

 

I look at our 5-3 record and know it's largely on the back of a 33 year old runningback. That is hardly something you can build around and as soon as you face playoff caliber teams it's not going to work. 

14 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Just face it folks we severely over paid for that used but trusty Acura...anyone whom thought the culture has changed is wrong we were all dooped by the front office again to think we may have a contender.....just to get some of our Butts (I’m one of them) in seats for at least part of the year ...signing Alex Smith was never to help build a quality football program but to keep us fans just a bit interested enough to fill the stadium somewhat and buy the over priced everything. We can make all the excuses we want about injuries, Smith not being in thebsystrm very long, refs etc....but the reality is Alex Smith is no better or worse than how he’s played for the passed 13 years in general we however have put us in on a direct path for mediocrity the next few years because of of the arrogance of this front door office they would rather give off an illusion of being good rather than maybe not having a good season or two to potentially build a contender...

 

There's also a piece of this where we have to understand certain coaches do better with the QB position and we can't easily replicate. Right now that's Andy Reid. He has always made the QB look good no matter who's in. We just can't do that, so let's not get cute and think we can actually take a QB like Alex Smith, who was coming off a career year, and somehow make him better. 

 

Know who we are. Since we don't make things overly easy on that position we need some talent/ play making from that spot. Let's not pretend we're good at polishing a turd. 

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17 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

That is exactly what I'd expect. It's 8 games into essentially a 3-year run with Smith. And, the team is 5-3 so you can't exactly bench Smith for a journeyman backup QB who isn't that much younger. If we fall out of contention, you could make the case for it then (like with Grossman/McNabb in 2010). But even then, unless they are seriously considering starting 2019 with another guy, I'd want Smith to get reps!

 

You certainly can if Gruden is in trouble of losing the locker room.  Receivers are starting to get frustrated too, according to Finlay.  They want the ball.

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1 minute ago, Unbias said:

 

If you watch the All 22 there are some deep throws open, but either the ball is already out or he's looking short. 

 

My issues with Smith are that he's just not aggressive. I think he looks deep when the short is covered or when it's a designed shot down field. Good QBs are always looking for a reason to go downfield where I feel Smith only does so when he's forced too. 

 

Thats who Alex Smith is. Your seeing it correctly. He doesn’t want to turn it over so he’s careful not too. Maybe too much so but that’s who Alex was everywhere he’s played. He can make all of the throws and he’s smart. But he will never be a gunslinger 

 

 

1 minute ago, Unbias said:

I look at our 5-3 record and know it's largely on the back of a 33 year old runningback. That is hardly something you can build around and as soon as you face playoff caliber teams it's not going to work. 

 

My point all along was that this was not the teams year. Whoever was throwing the ball didn’t matter this teams a long way from competiting with the best teams.

 

With that said I think that what AP has shown them is a winning formula. They aren’t always going to play an offensive juggernaut like the Falcons. I mean that team is one year removed from being two quarters shy of being world champs . They are just now getting over the hangover from that and I expect them to make the playoffs this year. 

 

Winning with AP now should show the team how important it will be for them to rush the ball more next year. That’s something they can build around even if  it’s not with AP

 

 

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4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

You certainly can if Gruden is in trouble of losing the locker room.  Receivers are starting to get frustrated too, according to Finlay.  They want the ball.

 

If you believe there's a mutiny coming, I suppose it's worthy of consideration. But which receivers are pissed? Reed, Davis, and Harris were targeted like 100 times yesterday. Doctson is getting looks. The only guy who matters and is truly underutilized is Richardson so I have a hard time believing there's a groundswell to play Colt McCoy in the locker room. 

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5 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

You certainly can if Gruden is in trouble of losing the locker room.  Receivers are starting to get frustrated too, according to Finlay.  They want the ball.

 

Finlay wasn’t reporting frustration in his podcast yesterday like that and this is the first I’ve heard that Jay maybe losing the locker room. The interviews by Kerrigan and Foster on redskins app shows that they are ready to move past this loss and get on to next week. I don’t understand where this is coming from

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

If you believe there's a mutiny coming, I suppose it's worthy of consideration. But which receivers are pissed? Reed, Davis, and Harris were targeted like 100 times yesterday. Doctson is getting looks. The only guy who matters and is truly underutilized is Richardson so I have a hard time believing there's a groundswell to play Colt McCoy in the locker room. 

 

I don’t see this happening. Before the game last week I heard the message there is no QB controversy and yesterday the message has been they didn’t lose because of Alex. Not completely putting the idea that at some point we couldn’t see some chatter about McCoy but I can’t see that happening for a least two more losses

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56 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

If you believe there's a mutiny coming, I suppose it's worthy of consideration. But which receivers are pissed? Reed, Davis, and Harris were targeted like 100 times yesterday. Doctson is getting looks. The only guy who matters and is truly underutilized is Richardson so I have a hard time believing there's a groundswell to play Colt McCoy in the locker room. 

 

I'm not saying that there is presently a groundswell to play McCoy, and that is what Finlay alluded to.  He basically said that if he continues to suck the roars on social media will grow louder and louder, and eventually it might spill over into the locker room.  

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17 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

So gross, we make the playoffs, does this save Bruce?

No. :) 

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18 minutes ago, TK said:

No. :) 

 

This is a different level of encouraging in context going forward for this franchise.

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Year        Age    Base Salary      Signing     Cap Hit    Dead Cap   Yearly Cash  
2018         34 $13,000,000    $5,400,000     $18,400,000    $55,000,000    $40,000,000($40,000,000)  
2019   35 $15,000,000 $5,400,000     $20,400,000 $42,000,000 $15,000,000($55,000,000)  
2020   36 $16,000,000 $5,400,000     $21,400,000 $20,250,000 $16,000,000($71,000,000)  
 
2021   37 $19,000,000 $5,400,000    $24,400,000 $13,500,000 $19,000,000($90,000,000)  
2022   38 $21,000,000 $5,400,000    $26,400,000 $6,750,000 $21,000,000($111,000,000)  
2023   39 UFA  
 
Cut after 2019 - 20.2M in dead cap
After 2020 - 13.5M
 
 
Looks like we are eating 20.2M after next year ... all this bc Bruce wanted to save 5-10M swapping QBs bc he couldnt see he was handed a franchice QB in Cousins bc  that would in part admit the Shannahans were at least right about that .... fml.
 
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2 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Ok, but this is going to cause a lot of issues.

1. Is there a QB we think is worth taking?

2. Will he be available when we pick?

3. Do we trade up (and loose more picks) to get him?

4. Do you trust our evaluators?

5. Do you trust the people that are supposed to groom the QB?

All good questions.

 

1. Don't know yet

2. Don't know yet

3. No

4. HELL NO

5. No

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3 hours ago, bobandweave said:

The Rest - These guys are mercenaries. Whatever happens with those guys is anyone's guess. They are the free agent QB's who have no future and are cast off from previous team. They are Mr. Unknowns. No future and completely unknown how long they will be around. Case Keenums and Sam Bradfords of the world. These guys cost as much as Bridge QBs but no long term commitments. 

 

^^ Alex Smith is not this

 

His 2020 salary becomes guaranteed in March.  So If we are going to cut ties, the only way I see it possible would be to do it before that occurs, and eat the $20.4 M cap hit this offseason (same as his salary cap number).  Otherwise he's got at least another two seasons here.  

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2 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Ok, but this is going to cause a lot of issues.

1. Is there a QB we think is worth taking?

2. Will he be available when we pick?

3. Do we trade up (and loose more picks) to get him?

4. Do you trust our evaluators?

5. Do you trust the people that are supposed to groom the QB?

 

1. Don't know

 

2. Don't know

 

3. If one is on the board they love they better be willing to move up for him. That's the price of doing business

 

4 and 5. If someone answers No to this then follow up should be why they want to keep Jay Gruden here going forward? Saying No to either of those questions means you want a new regime taking over from the top down.

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Every single team will stack the box because they know he can’t beat them through the air. 

 

He’s  done unless we draft a Hill or kamara every year

 

 

Edited by thebeermonkey

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55 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Im sorry, but in what universe ware we ever going to beat the "average 30 points per game" atlanta Falcons, when scoring 14 points?  Are you seriously suggesting we had any hope of winning that game with an offense that can only score 14 against the 3rd worst defense in the league?

 

Ill wait.

 

Allow me.  We became a run first team and when that is not working, we do not have the fire power to come back when down.  Yesterday, we started the game without Trent and then lost two starters on the o-line in the first half.  The entire left side was back-ups pretty much the entire game.  Then we lost Moses and later Scherff (3rd qtr), granted Moses came back, but was playing hurt.  So we had two starters finishing the game (C and RT) with one of them playing hurt.  

 

Even the worst defenses in football can take advantage of that.  Atlanta's rush defense isn't great, but they are #16 overall in YPG and #12 in total yards allowed.  These guys are average/slightly above average and they were going against three back-ups on the o-line, two being on the entire left side, they are going to win most of those battles and control the line of scrimmage, which they did.  

 

While our #10 defensive ranking is great, we are #5 against the run and #20 against the pass.  Atlanta has too many weapons and if they get rolling, it opens everything up for them.  The refs basically gifting them 14 points and taking 3 away from us didn't help either.  

 

So, with a healthy o-line and good defense, we can stay close in games and don't need to put up 30 points per game.  Take away one of those factors and we are toast.  Yesterday, it was injuries to the o-line that killed the running game and forced us to throw.  Alex Smith attempted 46 passes and we only ran the ball 15 attempts.  Alex Smith is not a QB that is going to win any shoot outs or come from behind.  He is a game manager right now at best, one that doesn't turn the ball over or cost you a game.

 

Can this work?  Yes, it already has this year twice.  The Packers are a top 10 offense, we won.  The Colts are top 10, we lost, but it wasn't on the defense, imo, they held Luck in check, we picked him off twice.  That game was another odd one too, it's like the Colts knew our snap count and were able to jump and get in the backfield in a second.  Panthers have the #13 offense, we won that game.  

 

As far as Smith goes (getting back to the original topic), I don't know what we can do with him after giving him that extension.  I doubt any team would trade for him and we can't afford to cut him after this season or next year.  I think the way his contract is structured is one that basically makes us stuck with him for 3 years (2018 - 2020).  Drafting a QB to groom behind Alex isn't necessarily a bad thing, he has had some real good regular seasons and is safe with the ball.  

 

I say ride it out and continue to build through the draft and snag a QB in 2021.

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2 hours ago, bobandweave said:

 

Finlay wasn’t reporting frustration in his podcast yesterday like that and this is the first I’ve heard that Jay maybe losing the locker room. The interviews by Kerrigan and Foster on redskins app shows that they are ready to move past this loss and get on to next week. I don’t understand where this is coming from

 

 

Finlay in multiple segments he's done has said they Jay and FO are frustrated with Alex.  Hoffman has said the same.  And Keim.  Next time I hear one of them say it, I'll post the segment.  I've heard it enough times to believe that the frustration is real.  I haven't heard anything though about losing the locker room or they are considering Colt.  But I've heard enough that i am convinced they aren't happy with how he's played.  But they hope improvement is coming.

 

And more importantly, IMO, as to Alex's future here, I don't think Jay is a new convert to conservative Qb play.  Heck on the coaches show, Jay flat out said he wants to see Alex make more throws in tight windows versus waiting for guys to get wide open.  So I think Jay is going to try to push Alex to fling it more. 

 

Personally, I think this week is the ultimate test. Tampa is like the poor man's Atlanta.  Teams are putting up big points against Tampa.  Tampa is almost the mirror opposite of this team -- they have an aggressive offense that makes a ton of turnovers.  Their defense is horrific.  I think they can rebound against that defense.  Will see. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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2 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Im sorry, but in what universe ware we ever going to beat the "average 30 points per game" atlanta Falcons, when scoring 14 points?  Are you seriously suggesting we had any hope of winning that game with an offense that can only score 14 against the 3rd worst defense in the league?

 

Ill wait.

No. We weren’t going to win after our Defense which is our strongest asset was getting exposed. We definitely weren’t going to win after our running game couldn’t do anything. Those are the 2 main reasons we made it to 5-2. Shut those down we lose, not to mention the entire O line went down. Pair Alex with a good running game and defense, we can win some games. If both get blown up in a game, we definitely are not winning. We also have no where near the talent level of receivers the Falcons have. Must win game for them after a bye week and we know what the Falcons offense can do. I was disappointed in the defense. 

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I suggest the Skins use their first and second round picks to improve the OL and plan on having Smith for a couple more years and stop whining they are 5-3.  Smith may not be good but he is our guy for a couple of more seasons, whining about it doesn't help.

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22 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

I suggest the Skins use their first and second round picks to improve the OL and plan on having Smith for a couple more years and stop whining they are 5-3.  Smith may not be good but he is our guy for a couple of more seasons, whining about it doesn't help.

They’re not gonna be 5-3 for long.

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