Sign in to follow this  
Riggo-toni

Flushing Tampa Bay out of the system

Recommended Posts

In the mid-nineties, GM Rich McKay put together the most talented defensive roster in the NFL in Tampa Bay. The team's Achilles heel was the lack of a competent QB to manage the offense. Failure to reach a Superbowl convinced the Glasers to pressure McKay into firing Tony Dungy and hiring an offensive minded coach. Jon Gruden came in, replaced Shaun King with Brad Johnson, and a year later became the youngest coach to win a Superbowl.

 

Convinced of his own genius, Gruden demanded full control over personnel and pushed McKay out in order to bring in his favorite lackey from his time in Oakland - Bruce Allen.  Over the hill Johnsons went to Dallas.  Drafts went horribly wrong - Gaines Adams at # 4? Within a few short years, the roster was garbage and the team floundering. Gruden got fired, along with Allen and his merry men. Gruden found life on MNF, whilst Allen was left on the street, unwanted by anyone.  In the meantime McKay, the guy Gruden pushed out, turned the Falcons into a playoff contender.

 

Fast forward to 2009...

 

Embarrassed by the Zorn debacle, Snyder ran off in a drunken stupor to Mike Shanahan, a guy who had won one playoff game in the last ten years and was barely over .500 following the retirement of Elway. Like Gruden in Tampa, Shanahan was convinced of his own genius and demanded full control over personnel. Like Gruden, he wanted a lackey to do his bidding and convinced Snyder to scrape Allen out of the bottom of a dumpster. The results were predictably dismal, but, thanks to his family name, Allen survived Lobsternado.

 

Not only is Allen void of any personnel evaluation skills, he is also incapable of discerning front office or coaching talent. Perhaps the only accurate assessment he has determined is that Snyder is so preoccupied with accusations of meddling that he will allow Allen to do as he pleases.

 

Thus empowered, Allen has used the Redskins as a means to distribute the spoils of conquest amongst the fellow failures of his tepid Tampa tenure.  Not genius, not qualifications, nor even competence are prerequisites; familiarity supersedes all. Gruden, Haslett, Barry, and, forgive me, Doug Williams. Membership has its privileges.

 

Two considerable talents have appeared during this period. The first, Sean McVay, left for greener pastures in LA, where I expect him to soon surpass Jon Gruden as the youngest coach to win a SB. The other is Kyle Smith. If this draft class pans out, he will likely be lured elsewhere with a promotion to GM.

 

If the Redskins fail to make the playoffs this year, there must be a complete purge of the Tampa refuse. Only Kyle Smith, Bill Callahan, and perhaps someone amongst Gray, Tomsula and Manusky should remain.

 

A new team President should be hired, but better that it be someone with no connection to the Skins' glory years, lest Snyder become too enamored with a past and thus blindsided. The Niners hiring Lynch might be a good template. That president should then either promote Kyle Smith, or hire a new GM. The GM should subsequently hire the next coach, thus establishing a hierarchy and eliminating our dysfunctional system of no-one held directly accountable for personnel.

 

Unfortunately, this is a pipe dream. Empty seats and mediocre records might get Allen fired, but the Dan is more than likely to revert to his familiar failed pattern of hiring a big name coach (Harbaugh, or more likely Cowher) and handing over to him complete control over personnel.

  • Like 9
  • Thanks 3
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ANYTHING is better than Gruden.

 

At this point I would rather have Hue Jackson *cries* just so I do not have to watch another 5 years of DEATH BY THOUSAND CHECKDOWNS

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Riggo-toni said:

Only Kyle Smith, Bill Callahan, and perhaps someone amongst Gray, Tomsula and Manusky should remain.

 

 

 

I agree that we need a GM ...

 

Why are we continuing to give Callahan a collective pass?

 

He hasnt helped our run game and Id argue he should get a good bit of blame for it in bringing his "TE over FB" run approach. We had a top tier FB at the time in DY but then we let him go and never found a blocking/catching TE that could come in. Carrier didnt pan out and then we started bringing in a 3rd T in Catalina or Clemmings or whatever his name was of the bench and it immediately screamed run play. 

 

He has had a HOF LT in Trent, a pro bowler RG and a solid RT .. with decent C play with Long and now Roullier. What more could an OL coach ask for? Complete autonomy and control of the O unit, massive input on weekly game planning, some legit studs up front ..... and weve spent the past 3 years ****ing about the non existent run game.

 

Callahan's rep and hype is dried up imo. He shouldnt get a pass.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think Cowher can be lured out. Rumors were, he was waiting for the Giants job. Nothing happened there, the 2 times Giants had an opening post Coughlin.

 

I don't see big name NFL retread, I see big name college coach as our next coach. True, Jim Harbaugh was in the NFL; but most of his head coaching career is college.

 

I don't see Dan firing Doug.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Riggo is circling back to a twenty year old conundrum: what to do about the Dan.  Daniel M. Snyder.  Mr. Snyder to all of us!  Friends, Romans, Extremeskiners--lend me your ears!  The answer is obvious now, isn't it?  The Dan has finally run this franchise into the ground.  If the Dan is as good of a businessman as he thinks he is, he will consider selling the franchise before its value (and frankly the value of the NFL brand) begins to deteriorate rapidly--we are not far from that and it will happen in the next decade.  30,000 empty seats at FedEx yesterday.  Just looking at his wikipedia page, there are references to articles, namely a WSJ article from 2009 entitled, "Are the Redskins Losing Washington?"  Less than ten years later, the resounding answer is YES!  I didn't intend for this to be a Dan Snyder rant, but now you'll all have to indulge me.  This is a man who who kept Vinny Cerrato on the pay role for seven years!  Cerrato's wikipedia page states as follows: "Vinny Cerrato is the former Executive Vice President for Football Operations for the Washington Redskins...and actor in the feature film Kindergarten Ninja."  

 

Why does anyone think that Snyder's front office decisions will suddenly morph into competent, strategic and sound ones?  This man has a 20 year track record of making one horrific decision after another.  As others on this board (including me) have said for years: everything Snyder touches as it relates to the Redskins turns to crap.  Only dimwit's and fools like Zorn and Gruden want to work for him now.  Our next head coach?  Someone looking for an enormous pay check who is well past his prime or shockingly under qualified.  

 

Under no plausible circumstance will Snyder go out and fire Bruce and replace him with someone empowered to act as a real GM.  When this franchise hired Scotty M, many of us were over the moon.  Finally, we all felt, we have an organizational structure primed for stability and perhaps, dare i say it, success.  Hate to break it to everyone, but just another Daniel M Snyder mirage in his never ending fun house of advertising gimmicks and snake oil.  Dan needs 'yes men' around.  He always has, and he always will.  He is not enlightened; he is not capable of moving past his ego and allowing others to succeed.  He's been successful in his personal life doing things his way.  He has never replicated that success (nor did he need to), and he will never replicate it again.  

 

Gruden is an entirely mediocre coach with zero intellectual fire power who can't motivate his players.  He's probably the best Snyder can do these days.  What intelligent coach would want to come here and work for this man with this organizational set up in place?  I give Snyder all the credit in the world for being a self-made billionaire.  Good for him.  But, he is one of the worst, if not the worst owner in all of professional sports.  

 

One day soon, when there are 10,000 people cramming the stadium for our inaugural home game, Dan Snyder will look down and wonder what has befallen this franchise.  He will look out onto the vast and barren landscape of the lower bowl, gaze upon the incandescent, tangerine glow of Cheetos strewn about and think to himself: this is what success looks like. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gruden & Allen need to go as a collective duo.  This will be their fifth year together and the franchise has progressed exactly zero percent.  Any positive step is negated by the stumbling backwards in every other way.

 

I am all for consistency and building something, but Gruden has had his time and there is little to nothing to justify him still running the show. 

 

Someone convince me why I am wrong. What is has he done so far to convince you he is the guy to usher in a new era of Redskins football, and trust me, the blow-up everything and rebuild is coming....sooner than you think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Gruden & Allen need to go as a collective duo.  This will be their fifth year together and the franchise has progressed exactly zero percent.  Any positive step is negated by the stumbling backwards in every other way.

 

I am all for consistency and building something, but Gruden has had his time and there is little to nothing to justify him still running the show. 

 

Someone convince me why I am wrong. What is has he done so far to convince you he is the guy to usher in a new era of Redskins football, and trust me, the blow-up everything and rebuild is coming....sooner than you think.

 

I think even a 1st round Playoff exit could still send him out of here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hawgboy said:

 

I think even a 1st round Playoff exit could still send him out of here.

 

A a playoff appearance with this roster would be an amazing feat and definitely worthy of more time.  I feel like so many people significantly overestimate the talent on this roster - it's NOT good.

 

With that said, they won't sniff the playoffs and he'll be fired on Black Monday or possibly sooner.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, zealoustuttle said:

ANYTHING is better than Gruden.

 

At this point I would rather have Hue Jackson *cries* just so I do not have to watch another 5 years of DEATH BY THOUSAND CHECKDOWNS

 

Dude didn't break a losing streak the past two weeks because he insisted on a Kicker who needs surgery now be the starting Kicker. Hue is complete trash and we can do better then that. We just need someone who is good with the players but tough enough to demand they play up to potential and discipline to get after the team when they aren't ready to play a game 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

Fast forward to 2009...

 

Embarrassed by the Zorn debacle, Snyder ran off in a drunken stupor to Mike Shanahan, a guy who had won one playoff game in the last ten years and was barely over .500 following the retirement of Elway. Like Gruden in Tampa, Shanahan was convinced of his own genius and demanded full control over personnel. Like Gruden, he wanted a lackey to do his bidding and convinced Snyder to scrape Allen out of the bottom of a dumpster. The results were predictably dismal, but, thanks to his family name, Allen survived Lobsternado.

Just to set the record straight, Allen was signed first. Allen fired Zorn and picked Shanahan. Allen has been top dog as GM around here since the end of 2009, and everything that's happened since has been by his hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, skins4eva said:

Riggo is circling back to a twenty year old conundrum: what to do about the Dan.  Daniel M. Snyder.  Mr. Snyder to all of us!  Friends, Romans, Extremeskiners--lend me your ears!  The answer is obvious now, isn't it?  The Dan has finally run this franchise into the ground.  If the Dan is as good of a businessman as he thinks he is, he will consider selling the franchise before its value (and frankly the value of the NFL brand) begins to deteriorate rapidly--we are not far from that and it will happen in the next decade.  30,000 empty seats at FedEx yesterday.  Just looking at his wikipedia page, there are references to articles, namely a WSJ article from 2009 entitled, "Are the Redskins Losing Washington?"  Less than ten years later, the resounding answer is YES!  I didn't intend for this to be a Dan Snyder rant, but now you'll all have to indulge me.  This is a man who who kept Vinny Cerrato on the pay role for seven years!  Cerrato's wikipedia page states as follows: "Vinny Cerrato is the former Executive Vice President for Football Operations for the Washington Redskins...and actor in the feature film Kindergarten Ninja."  

 

Why does anyone think that Snyder's front office decisions will suddenly morph into competent, strategic and sound ones?  This man has a 20 year track record of making one horrific decision after another.  As others on this board (including me) have said for years: everything Snyder touches as it relates to the Redskins turns to crap.  Only dimwit's and fools like Zorn and Gruden want to work for him now.  Our next head coach?  Someone looking for an enormous pay check who is well past his prime or shockingly under qualified.  

 

Under no plausible circumstance will Snyder go out and fire Bruce and replace him with someone empowered to act as a real GM.  When this franchise hired Scotty M, many of us were over the moon.  Finally, we all felt, we have an organizational structure primed for stability and perhaps, dare i say it, success.  Hate to break it to everyone, but just another Daniel M Snyder mirage in his never ending fun house of advertising gimmicks and snake oil.  Dan needs 'yes men' around.  He always has, and he always will.  He is not enlightened; he is not capable of moving past his ego and allowing others to succeed.  He's been successful in his personal life doing things his way.  He has never replicated that success (nor did he need to), and he will never replicate it again.  

 

Gruden is an entirely mediocre coach with zero intellectual fire power who can't motivate his players.  He's probably the best Snyder can do these days.  What intelligent coach would want to come here and work for this man with this organizational set up in place?  I give Snyder all the credit in the world for being a self-made billionaire.  Good for him.  But, he is one of the worst, if not the worst owner in all of professional sports.  

 

One day soon, when there are 10,000 people cramming the stadium for our inaugural home game, Dan Snyder will look down and wonder what has befallen this franchise.  He will look out onto the vast and barren landscape of the lower bowl, gaze upon the incandescent, tangerine glow of Cheetos strewn about and think to himself: this is what success looks like. 

Anyone would come and work here for a giant paycheck tbh. The worst that can happen is you get fired 2 years in with a lot of money owed to you, then go to a better franchise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with OP.  It starts with firing Allen first and let the new GM make the decision to fire Gruden and hire his own coach.  Firing Gruden with Allen still in charge is going to literally change nothing.  Snyder is the worst owner probably in major pro sports history.  History.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Just to set the record straight, Allen was signed first. Allen fired Zorn and picked Shanahan. Allen has been top dog as GM around here since the end of 2009, and everything that's happened since has been by his hand.

Yes, but no.  Snyder first asked Shanahan to take over mid-season, but Shanahan insisted there was nothing he could do coming in mid-season. Shanahan then pitched Allen to Snyder, telling him "can you believe somebody that good is available off the street." Snyder hired Allen to lure Shanahan in once the season was over. Without Shanahan's urging, Allen never gets hired.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Riggo-toni said:

Yes, but no.  Snyder first asked Shanahan to take over mid-season, but Shanahan insisted there was nothing he could do coming in mid-season. Shanahan then pitched Allen to Snyder, telling him "can you believe somebody that good is available off the street." Snyder hired Allen to lure Shanahan in once the season was over. Without Shanahan's urging, Allen never gets hired.

First time I've ever heard that story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, zealoustuttle said:

ANYTHING is better than Gruden.

 

At this point I would rather have Hue Jackson *cries* just so I do not have to watch another 5 years of DEATH BY THOUSAND CHECKDOWNS

You can't blame Gruden for the checkdowns , Thats on Smith, Cousins was slinging the ball all over the field for a solid 4 seasons under Gruden.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I'm in the minority and actually like Gruden. The players definitely like playing for him, there is no denying that. And I like his offensive scheme. I also think Gruden has a large role in the drafts and has done a decent job over the years. I'm surprised at how little the Redskin's fan base appreciates continuity. It takes years to get a roster that the head coach needs to run his team. If we continue to change head coaches every 3-5 years, we'll keep seeing the same results every year. So it doesn't matter who the next coach is, he'll only have 3-5 years and then he's gone. Maybe that's a huge reason no one wants the head coaching job here. 

Edited by Cooooley47

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We can blame Allen all we want. Things won’t get better as long as Snyder is owning this team. Some people just have an aura about themselves and his has a stench.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

He (and I think Cerrato) showed up drunk at Shanny's home in Colorado.

 

 

 

I still love that story. Shows exactly what kind of a **** show the Skins are under Snyder.

 

I think once he's done with Gruden he'll get really loaded and ramble off a list of retreads ta Bruce.

 

It'll go a little like this:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is Snyder trusts and believes in Allen too much to let him go.

Even though Allen has pulled off some doozies of ineptness in his tenure here, blame is usually deflected to others, while Bruce chooses color co-ordinations for the festival. This organization's front office has lost some good players, by playing favoritism to some and flat-out dis-like for others. Anyone who doesn't agree with the 'powers-that-be' are soon shown the door, and at times followed up by a little stab in the back now and then.

 

The bottom line is this; Bruce Allen started out as a ball boy for his dad; today he just holds the balls of Dan Snyder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A little clip from a post article that is so accurate it's like a dagger through the heart.

 

 

The problem: Those fans this team lost, they can turn their attention to products that are more consistently pleasing, or are not owned by Daniel Snyder, or both. Winning them over as kids with a championship-caliber product? That was easier than Riggo, on fourth and one, behind the Hogs. Winning them back after years of neglect? Oof, man. That’s John Beck looking for Jabar Gaffney in triple coverage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The one way to communicate with the owner is to not pack the stadium. When those men see empty seats they see losses of money opportunities and make changes. Personally would like to see the owner fire himself and flush out all of the employees he has at this point not just his Tampa buddies. Cut the head off the dragon and it dies, leave the head and it only prolongs it’s life. In other words simply firing coaches and the GMs isn’t enough 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite simply they need to drain the swamp. New Team President/ GM and then new coach.  Snyder needs to stay hands off then. I don’t care if Snyder has to hire the best consultant firm to find the new GM. I don’t care what money he needs to throw. Do what’s necessary. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Capitals winning the cup really drove a nail into the Redskins coffin.  Id argue DC is a hockey town now, then skins total ineptitude under Snyder has made it easy.  When it comes to sports in DC the Redskins are 3rd in the pecking order behind the Caps and Nats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10000000000% agree with everything in this post.  I've been trying to say it this well for awhile now but not everyone can write a good thread like Riggo here.

To take it a step further, since the Redskins are in a win now mentality according to their head coach (see the quote about how the team isn't building around Alex Smith, the team is built, he has to lead it. NOW!)... Then they need help.  They need Dez, they need Eric Reed.  This team is awful.  Get those questionable players and try to win something now or clean house at the end of the year because that is what it's going to take, AGAIN, to get this AWFUL franchise back on track.  

I thought at some point after the first playoff game with Cousins and in Scot we trust, things were on track but now it's plainly obvious that the train is off the track, wildly off course. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.