Is a college degree really necessary?

[brandymac27]

Both of my kids are in college, and I've preached getting a great education to them since they were very young. But having recently changed jobs, I've wondered if a 4 year degree is really necessary.

 

Looking for jobs and the salaries that were being offered, I noticed for a lot of jobs that didn't necessarily require college degrees, the pay difference wasn't that great even if you have a degree ( ex: intake workers at DSS). 

 

It leads me to ask, is the pressure we put on kids to go to college too much? Is it worth getting into so much debt over a pay difference of 5-7k a year? 

 

Obviously I'm not referring to people who want a career in the medical field, education, etc. A degree is required for those careers. But what about everyone else? Do we put unnecessary expectations on people to go to a 4 year college?

[PleaseBlitz]

It depends on what they want to do.  It's tough for a teenager to decide who they want to be.  A college education opens up doors, but if they aren't interested in those particular doors, then it's a waste.  

[brandymac27]

1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said:

It depends on what they want to do.  It's tough for a teenager to decide who they want to be.  A college education opens up doors, but if they aren't interested in those particular doors, then it's a waste.  

I look at people I know, and so many of them either aren't doing anything close to what they have a degree in, or went back to a community college and got a certification in something. They seem to regret getting into so much student loan debt. I'm one of those people!

[Spaceman Spiff]

Yeah, it depends.

 

I do hate seeing companies have college requirements in place for jobs that don't require them, like a sales job.  I know your SaaS company is doing God's work and is the next big disruptor in whatever space you're in and my candidate hits all the things that you're looking for but went to community college or an online school?  **** off.

[brandymac27]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Yeah, it depends.

 

I do hate seeing companies have college requirements in place for jobs that don't require them, like a sales job.  I know your SaaS company is doing God's work and is the next big disruptor in whatever space you're in and my candidate hits all the things that you're looking for but went to community college or an online school?  **** off.

This is so true. It just seems like a college degree for certain jobs is a waste of time and money.

[PleaseBlitz]

Just now, brandymac27 said:

I look at people I know, and so many of them either aren't doing anything close to what they have a degree in, or went back to a community college and got a certification in something. They seem to regret getting into so much student loan debt. I'm one of those people!

 

#1, I know a lot of people that aren't working a job close to what their degree is actually in, but they couldn't have gotten the job without a degree in something.  

 

#2, I went to grad school to get the education I needed to pursue a particular career, and now I have that career.  It is exactly what I want to be doing, and I am very well compensated (which makes my original student debt of $240,000 manageable).  Racking up a ****load of debt was something that I did knowingly and it's working out exactly as planned.  That isn't everyone's experience, but it is for a lot of people. 

 

#3, If you want to do something that doesn't require a degree, you shouldn't get the degree.  School will always be there if you change your mind. 

[twa]

As you mentioned it depends on the field.

What courses you take matter more than anything.?

 

A degree gives you more options, but you can certainly get by w/o one in many jobs.

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, brandymac27 said:

This is so true. It just seems like a college degree for certain jobs is a waste of time and money.

 

Yep.  

 

But PB is right with his #1 point above.  Employers justify it not just as a degree in something relatable to their business but they can assume the following things about the person: the ability to stick to something and see it through to the end, the ability to show up and be responsible...which is true.  That said, there are a bunch of other ways to determine if a person is capable of those things, but that's what I've heard employers say when they defend why their candidates have to have a college degree.  

 

But we're also looking at the end of what college is and overlooking all of the other reasons why someone should go such as personal growth, meeting new people, other social aspects and if you're like @PleaseBlitz, setting couches on fire.  I can't say that I'm using anything that I learned in college but the social things that I did like rowing and the friendships I made are still intact today.  

[Renegade7]

@brandymac27 you said they already in college, what for?  Is it what they want to do? 

 

Your concerns are valid, but if they are perusing a field that is expected to have a degree, the debt jus comes with the territory right now, is what it is.  In general, you don't need college to be able to take care of your needs, can easily join the military and make a 20 year career out of it.

 

If my kids were completely unsure of what to do, I'd bring up knocking some general ed classes in community college out, enough to count in distinguishing from people that don't and enough to go after after bachelor's somewhere else once they figure out what they want to do. 

 

I picked IT because I knew I had to do something, but fell in love with it, not the other way around.  I didn't settle on exactly what I wanted to do until my last year of college but I picked about as safe a field as I could in event i did change my mind down the road.

[Kilmer17]

It is necessary for all sorts of reasons.  Getting a good job or being successful in life though?  No.

 

[LadySkinsFan]

I have two associate degrees, and I needed the second one to get a good job. It's paralegal but I never worked in that profession. The degrees helped with my writing and the paralegal degree helped understanding contracts, so it was useful in managing and writing proposals. 

 

My daughter doesn't have any college, it hasn't affected her chosen career in a food coop.

[JSSkinz]

I can't really speak about not having a degree because in finance its a must. I will say I was held hostage on my pay scale until I obtained my masters and the pay difference was much more than $5k - $7k, just depends on what they are interested in doing.

 

I've been going to a war room mastermind for years and I meet people all the time who are very successful and do not have a degree but they are all entrepreneurs.

[brandymac27]

6 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I can't really speak about not having a degree because in finance its a must. I will say I was held hostage on my pay scale until I obtained my masters and the pay difference was much more than $5k - $7k, just depends on what they are interested in doing.

 

I've been going to a war room mastermind for years and I meet people all the time who are very successful and do not have a degree but they are all entrepreneurs.

 

 

 

 

 

And this is the trap I've fallen into. I have a degree, but without a grad degree, I'll never advance or make more money, and I'm not in a position to go back to school right now. I'm stuck making student loan payments that I can't afford in the mean time.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I'll echo what everyone else is saying, "it depends".

If they'd like to take up a trade then they can be highly successful and prosperous without a degree. My neighbor is an HVAC guy and owns his own company, he's doing just fine without a degree. 

But at the same time if you further your education in a way that will further your career then I see that as being a huge benefit. 

If they're studying 18th Century French Lit, then they'd also better be studying how to turn that knowledge into a paying career.

And then, there are some careers that necessitate a degree.

 

I've got millionaire friends who have degrees and also those who do not. That said, the millionaire friends who do not have degrees are making sure that their kids do...so take that for what it's worth.

 

My advice to my kids is this, if you go to college then go for the education not the degree, and what you study should be what you'd like to work in, but also minor in business and entrepreneurship that way you can take your passion and turn it into your own business. And know that most likely you'll find yourself working in a field that was outside of your area of study, so take those courses and majors that universally translate to different areas.

[JSSkinz]

Just now, brandymac27 said:

And this is the trap I've fallen into. I have a degree, but without a grad degree, I'll never advance or make more money, and I'm not in a position to go back to school right now.

Whats really bad is I worked for a company that promoted me, then told me they couldn't give me the appropriate pay for that job because I didn't have my graduate degree but they kept me in the position and let me continue to do the job.

 

So I used the tuition reimbursement, obtained my graduate degree and then left to work at another company as a big FU to them.

 

****s, lol

[bobandweave]

I have five children and my oldest just graduated from College this year, now she is going to Graduate school.

 

What I said to all of them is before even thinking about going to college to ask themselves a simple but effective question which is

 

Do you want to have the things in life you WANT or the things in life you NEED?

 

Sounds simple enough but think about it. If you want to have the ability to get the things you want you first have to pay for the things you need. Someone could go out and buy a brand new iPhone but if they don't pay the rent first they will be using that iPhone under a bridge. To get the things you want everyone has to take care of the needs they have first. 

 

Once my children understand they want to have the things they both want and need that eliminates a ton of jobs that they can't have and narrows down the jobs they can get. For example my daughter may love to work at Macy's at the Mack counter but the pay for that work is too low for her to work there and afford what she wants. It's good enough to get her needs met but it eliminates her wants. Same with my sons. They may want to work at Gamestop and play games all day but that's not going to pay them enough to have the things they want, it may pay for the things they need (food/shelter/etc) but the extra stuff (latest video games/makeup/clothes/new phones) are out. 

 

Which leads me to this. With my kids I stress to them understanding what the jobs pay before deciding on what to study in college. When they understand what the jobs pay and they have a goal of how much money they want to make this narrows down the degrees that are worth getting even more. When this narrowing down occurs it helps the children narrow down what it is they want to work for and focuses in on why they are doing what they are doing. 

 

Truth is I have a nephew who is 21 years old, never went to college a day in his life, who owns (not finances but owns) a 2018 Corvette. Bought and paid for by his HVAC trade and who makes over 6 figures a year. He didn't need a degree to earn what he makes now, so the question of "Is a college degree really necessary" is completely dependant on what your career is in. 

 

I work in IT. I didn't need a degree to get my start in this in the 90's. When I needed a degree was when I wanted to move out of the technical side of IT and do more management. Without the degree I was screwed, I wasn't going to get interviewed for management without it. Even in my own career the question for me "Is a college degree really necessary" changed over the years. 

[brandymac27]

2 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

I'll echo what everyone else is saying, "it depends".

If they'd like to take up a trade then they can be highly successful and prosperous without a degree. My neighbor is an HVAC guy and owns his own company, he's doing just fine without a degree. 

But at the same time if you further your education in a way that will further your career then I see that as being a huge benefit. 

If they're studying 18th Century French Lit, then they'd also better be studying how to turn that knowledge into a paying career.

And then, there are some careers that necessitate a degree.

 

I've got millionaire friends who have degrees and also those who do not. That said, the millionaire friends who do not have degrees are making sure that their kids do...so take that for what it's worth.

 

My advice to my kids is this, if you go to college then go for the education not the degree, and what you study should be what you'd like to work in, but also minor in business and entrepreneurship that way you can take your passion and turn it into your own business. And know that most likely you'll find yourself working in a field that was outside of your area of study, so take those courses and majors that universally translate to different areas.

I think that's great advice, and basically what I've told my kids as well. I just hope they don't end up in the same situation I'm in. JSSkinz mentioned using tuition reimbursement to go to grad school, but I don't have that option right now. It just makes me wonder if all the time and money I've spent was really worth it. I could have gotten a job in sales with no degree making more than I do now with a degree smh.

[brandymac27]

4 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

I have five children and my oldest just graduated from College this year, now she is going to Graduate school.

 

What I said to all of them is before even thinking about going to college to ask themselves a simple but effective question which is

 

Do you want to have the things in life you WANT or the things in life you NEED?

 

Sounds simple enough but think about it. If you want to have the ability to get the things you want you first have to pay for the things you need. Someone could go out and buy a brand new iPhone but if they don't pay the rent first they will be using that iPhone under a bridge. To get the things you want everyone has to take care of the needs they have first. 

 

Once my children understand they want to have the things they both want and need that eliminates a ton of jobs that they can't have and narrows down the jobs they can get. For example my daughter may love to work at Macy's at the Mack counter but the pay for that work is too low for her to work there and afford what she wants. It's good enough to get her needs met but it eliminates her wants. Same with my sons. They may want to work at Gamestop and play games all day but that's not going to pay them enough to have the things they want, it may pay for the things they need (food/shelter/etc) but the extra stuff (latest video games/makeup/clothes/new phones) are out. 

 

Which leads me to this. With my kids I stress to them understanding what the jobs pay before deciding on what to study in college. When they understand what the jobs pay and they have a goal of how much money they want to make this narrows down the degrees that are worth getting even more. When this narrowing down occurs it helps the children narrow down what it is they want to work for and focuses in on why they are doing what they are doing. 

 

Truth is I have a nephew who is 21 years old, never went to college a day in his life, who owns (not finances but owns) a 2018 Corvette. Bought and paid for by his HVAC trade and who makes over 6 figures a year. He didn't need a degree to earn what he makes now, so the question of "Is a college degree really necessary" is completely dependant on what your career is in. 

 

I work in IT. I didn't need a degree to get my start in this in the 90's. When I needed a degree was when I wanted to move out of the technical side of IT and do more management. Without the degree I was screwed, I wasn't going to get interviewed for management without it. Even in my own career the question for me "Is a college degree really necessary" changed over the years. 

Now this will really help my son lol. He's in college now on academic and football scholarships, but he's dead set on going to the NFL and thinks he'll be living high on the hog forever. Reality is, odds are against him, so he BETTER get a degree in something he can use to support all the crap he wants AND needs like you said. Thank God he's decided on a degree in microbiology so if he doesn't go pro he can go to physical therapy school. I may copy your post and text him if you don't mind lol.

[Jumbo]

there's a lot i can say on this topic since i dropped out of school at the end of the 7th grade, started working at 15, became very successful in a field where advanced learning by self-study and working experience brought me technical expertise in audio-related electronics, engineering, and acoustics that were key to that profession, and then i made a major change around 40 to return to school to "go all the way" from GED to PhD in another field, and did well in that second career inc. my share of teaching/advising etc. as part of it.

 

much of the latter had me involved with students over 40 who were looking to make change--so in all of this, i find so much depends on the individual's skills, interests, resources and goals being well identified---that's often a major task not done very well though it seems like an obvious situation to address

 

i find equivalent value in the choice of vocational or special credential/skills schooling, as long as it's business practices aren't larcenous

 

a little side-angle i'd throw in, depending on what stage of life you're in--just the type of environment in many 2 or 4 year academic institutions can offer shaping experiences of a positive nautre that you don't get in many other ways. that atmosphere of exploration and debate and learning new things and  stimulating company all around you can be it's own reward and also inform.

 

now there are "counter-scenarios" to every good thing i just noted about that environment  and any individual can have a way different  experience obviously, but i'm saying there's positives of that academic journey beyond the learned material that can be very worthwhile to a person....but

 

 

 

...just always remember: in the end, it's the money that matters 

[twa]

Is 58 too late to go to college?

Can't really decide what field to go for.

[PeterMP]

I think the most important things is to have a plan and move forward with that plan until you decide you need to change plans.  Going to college without a plan doesn't make much sense from what I've seen.  Those students just end up wasting their time and money from what I've seen, but not going to college without a plan doesn't do any good either.

 

If your plan doesn't involve going to college, but getting job training and being exposed to diverse opinions and experiences other ways that's probably good.

 

(It is funny because I've got two kids and my wife will talk about when they go to college with them, and I'm always quick to throw in if that's what they want to do.  I do think we pressure too many people that aren't ready (in terms of maturity or having a real plan) into going to college.)

1 minute ago, twa said:

Is 58 too late to go to college?

Can't really decide what field to go for.

 

Had a guy in his 70s in a class last semester.  Retired school teacher going back part time and takes a class or so a semester.

[PleaseBlitz]

9 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

...just always remember: in the end, it's the money that matters 

 

Money, if it does not bring you happiness, will at least help you be miserable in comfort.
 

-Helen Gurley Brown
 

[Jumbo]

8 minutes ago, twa said:

Is 58 too late to go to college?

Can't really decide what field to go for.

 

 

no. not even close. per the field, since i'm good at this stuff, i think you should take dance.

[twa]

I was thinking a law degree since I already know it all and it is the path to politics  ?

 

 

 

 

[bobandweave]

42 minutes ago, brandymac27 said:

Now this will really help my son lol. He's in college now on academic and football scholarships, but he's dead set on going to the NFL and thinks he'll be living high on the hog forever. Reality is, odds are against him, so he BETTER get a degree in something he can use to support all the crap he wants AND needs like you said. Thank God he's decided on a degree in microbiology so if he doesn't go pro he can go to physical therapy school. I may copy your post and text him if you don't mind lol.

 

It takes a village so feel free to use this in any way that helps.