The "Non" Mt Rushmore Symbols of the Dan Snyder Era

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 hours ago, hail2skins said:

Just can't believe you don't appreciate the beauty of the random red/yellow checkboard that is the club level portion of the seating bowl 

 

The funny thing is that the random seats are the least of my issues with the colors. At least there's a reason for that (I believe it has something to do with personalizing your seats) and it uses our colors. The FedEx color scheme is what drives me nuts. 

 

Having said that, the BEST this stadium could have ever been is probably a 7/10 and Snyder inherited it from the previous regime. The more I think back to the post-Gibbs/pre-Snyder years (1993 through 1998) the more blame I give the old ownership for setting us on this course. It's not an excuse, but it needs to be accurately remembered that this once-proud franchise was sinking quickly before anyone even knew the name Dan Snyder...losing on the field, building a ****ty stadium in a dumb area, the entire ownership/trust debacle, etc. 

 

1993: 4-12

1994: 3-13

1995: 6-10

1996: 9-7

1997: 8-7-1

1998: 6-10

1999: 10-6 (I'll give credit for this season to the previous regime because I believe Snyder took over very late in the off-season)

[hail2skins]

There's no doubt that the stadium was too quickly constructed and probably too many premium seats when it opened. But there were also some charms that Snyder took away and other things that he added, like the dream seats, that have probably been a detraction from the fan experience. And while the Skins were going through a crappy patch prior to Dan taking over, suggesting that the 1993-1998 period should carry any blame or relation to the crap show we've had to deal with for almost two decades under Dan at the helm is ludicrous. Again, the 12-year stretch between Spurrier and Shanny that I think has defined his tenure thus far was twice the length of the first six years after Gibbs 1.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

28 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

There's no doubt that the stadium was too quickly constructed and probably too many premium seats when it opened. But there were also some charms that Snyder took away and other things that he added, like the dream seats, that have probably been a detraction from the fan experience. And while the Skins were going through a crappy patch prior to Dan taking over, suggesting that the 1993-1998 period should carry any blame or relation to the crap show we've had to deal with for almost two decades under Dan at the helm is ludicrous. Again, the 12-year stretch between Spurrier and Shanny that I think has defined his tenure thus far was twice the length of the first six years after Gibbs 1.

 

That wasn't my suggestion at all. I'm simply pointing out that this was a poorly run organization and not a very good team when ownership changed hands. Snyder is responsible for every decision he's made, but he didn't tear down a once-proud franchise when he took over. That process had started and the foundation of what made this franchise great in the 1980s had been completely destroyed. 

 

I only mention it because many times the narrative almost makes it seem like we fell completely off a cliff when Snyder took over. I think for many younger fans, those years blur together and they don't realize the chronology. Hell, I hear people call into the radio complaining about "the stadium the 'Schnieder' built" in Maryland. 

 

Just want to be sure we're all acknowledging that Snyder has done very little to improve things and we are certainly worse than we were, but he didn't inherit this franchise at its peak...not by a long shot. 

[hail2skins]

Something that came to mind during this mini-discussion between TD and I regarding the post Gibbs I era. The 49ers and Bears were two teams that, like the Skins, were considered NFC powerhouses in the 80s and very early 90s. The Niners continued their winning ways through the late 90s and sort of into the early years of the next decade, but have been pretty bad since, with the recent exception of the Harbaugh years. The Bears have been a mediocre team as well since the early 90s, only having probably the same number of decent seasons as the Skins (a couple were of the 13-3 variety) and they did have a SB appearance with Sexy Rexy. But I was curious if anyone knows whether either of those teams are looked upon with the amount of scorn both nationally and in their local market that the Skins seem to be.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

22 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

Something that came to mind during this mini-discussion between TD and I regarding the post Gibbs I era. The 49ers and Bears were two teams that, like the Skins, were considered NFC powerhouses in the 80s and very early 90s. The Niners continued their winning ways through the late 90s and sort of into the early years of the next decade, but have been pretty bad since, with the recent exception of the Harbaugh years. The Bears have been a mediocre team as well since the early 90s, only having probably the same number of decent seasons as the Skins (a couple were of the 13-3 variety) and they did have a SB appearance with Sexy Rexy. But I was curious if anyone knows whether either of those teams are looked upon with the amount of scorn both nationally and in their local market that the Skins seem to be.

 

Not even close...they've played in Super Bowls and had "bubble up" years often enough. All 3 teams were great in the 80s due to their markets. We were in the small group of Haves and beating up on the Have Nots. 

 

But think about it...the 49ers, as you mention, maintained a level of success until about 15 years ago (so a decade longer than us) and then still have had some good years and already seem to be rising again. The Bears were good in the 2000s, went to a SB, and played for another one. There's nowhere near the ineptitude with those teams. 

[NickyJ]

I'd argue that the Dolphins are a closer comparison to us. As soon as Marino was gone, they've been in the dumps. No Super Bowl runs, 2 playoff appearances in 15 years while never making it past the first round. Nothing horribly gone wrong, just mediocre. Except for being the first team to bring Pat White and John Beck into the NFL. That was something horribly gone wrong.

[hail2skins]

Yep, Dolphins are another team that was thought of as one of the league's elite from the early 70s through the late 90s. They bottomed out at 1-15 in '07 before bouncing back to 11-5 in '08 (the year TB12 got hurt.....wasn't that the year Parcells joined the Dolphins FO). Since, they've had a 10-6 season, two 8-8 seasons, three 7-9 seasons, and three 6-10 seasons. Poster child of mediocrity.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 hour ago, NickyJ said:

I'd argue that the Dolphins are a closer comparison to us. As soon as Marino was gone, they've been in the dumps. No Super Bowl runs, 2 playoff appearances in 15 years while never making it past the first round. Nothing horribly gone wrong, just mediocre. Except for being the first team to bring Pat White and John Beck into the NFL. That was something horribly gone wrong.

 

They are a great comp, good call. If you remove the arbitrary "11-win threshold" that a lot of us like to use as a benchmark, they've basically been a mirror image of the Redskins. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Having a few Dolphin fan friends and acquaintances, I've always given them a hard time and will not accept one ounce of crap for my Redskins fandom from them.  Some of them are delusional, just like our own.  A few years ago when they tried to break the bank of free agents, they were all jacked up and letting me have it.  I warned them, that all those free agents don't mean jack unless their QB is legit and their draft picks pan out.  They wouldn't hear me though.  Sadly, I do find them to be a very good comparison to the Redskins.

[Alexa]

Man I forgot about Pepper Rogers. God that was just one of the many low points of me being a fan of this team once Snyder took over.  Had Snyder hired him I believe Robiske and Ray Rhodes were going to quit. I read that somewhere. 

 

Oh and that entire thing w/ Sherm Lewis. Dan and Vinny basically  cut the nuts off of their head coach, called in a bingo caller to call the plays. How insane was that?  I actually felt truly sorry for Jim Zorn. That Mon night game when he did that fake punt twice just to stick to Dan an Vinny. That was literally a terrible time for us fans. 

 

I think Larry Michael is the kind of guy that hears things being said, maybe by players or a coach, and he then turns around and tells Snyder. He just comes across as a guy who will do anything for Dan. Probably gets his coffee in the morning. He's the poster boy for an ass licker, a pure company man who would do or say anything to keep his job over at Redskin Park 

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

24 minutes ago, Alexa said:

 

I think Larry Michael is the kind of guy that hears things being said, maybe by players or a coach, and he then turns around and tells Snyder. He just comes across as a guy who will do anything for Dan. Probably gets his coffee in the morning. He's the poster boy for an ass licker, a pure company man who would do or say anything to keep his job over at Redskin Park 

 

 

It's one of his many Skintangible qualities. 

[NoCalMike]

Weren't the Packers largely irrelevant after the beginning of the Super Bowl era until they landed Brett Favre?  How many playoff & Superbowl appearances did they have after winning the first two and before the Favre era SB win?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, NoCalMike said:

Weren't the Packers largely irrelevant after the beginning of the Super Bowl era until they landed Brett Favre?  How many playoff & Superbowl appearances did they have after winning the first two and before the Favre era SB win?

 

After winning their second Super Bowl, it looks like they made the playoffs just twice (1972 and 1982 - oddly, the first two times we went to the Super Bowl). So from 1968 through 1992 they had 2 playoff appearances. 

[Renegade7]

On 7/9/2018 at 12:54 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Obviously none of us have jobs like Dan.  But it doesn't really matter what you do for a living, if you perform your job at the level Dan has - you would be fired.  Lucky for Dan, he owns the team - so that's not an option.  As the owner of the team, everything good or bad falls on his shoulders for the environment he created and is responsible for.

 

Like you've never had a mediocre manager before, please.

On 7/9/2018 at 12:54 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

As for the last draft, I think that's a silly thing to credit anyone for until the bullets actually fly.  But to your point - yeah, it's well known that Snyder has been heavily involved with player acquisition pretty much throughout his entire tenure.  It's only of late that you hear less about it and I guess it's a good thing that 15 years into his ownership he might finally realize that he doesn't know jack about football and should leave that to the professionals.  I'm certainly not going to give him credit for being a decade late on the learning curve.

 

You act like he kicked your dog or something and can never be forgiven.  Obviously he was embarrassed by front office situation and had overhauled it.  I can't get over the fact that we not only used our second first rounder in a row on dline, but on the most important and neglected position of our 3-4 defense.  Even if it doesn't work to its potential, thas a smart decision that we've been begging for nearly a decade, credit this front office for finally doing it.  You need to move on, Vinny isn't here anymore, and this is looking like a possible playoff roster without the distractions we've seen in the past.

 

On 7/9/2018 at 12:54 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Again - why should the fans care one iota about Dan making money off of them?  Go Dan, keep making that money playa!  Really?  How about actually employ sound organizational strategies and foster an environment conducive to winning, actually win some games, and make even more money the legit way?

 

You don't have to care, you asked what he did right and part of his job is making money.  Has he sliced on the while hiring thing since he took over, sure, but as 4th most valuable franchise in league that is something he's gotten right.

 

On 7/9/2018 at 12:54 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Sometimes?  To this point, every time it doesn't work.  Sure - it sounds nice to say he tried to do the right thing by hiring Bruce and Mike.  But as is evident by everything that's transpired since that time, he never truly let those guys work and kept his hands totally off.  It's not surprising that it ended in flames. 

 

He's too much of a fan to sit and his hands say absolutely nothing, yall might not give him a pass for that, but I get it.  And I'm aorry, but if you can't think of 4 things Snyder has gotten right since he bought the team, your beyond reason, I have better things to do.

[Renegade7]

On 7/9/2018 at 1:35 PM, thesubmittedone said:

 

I’m not sure you’re reading those numbers correctly. And don’t get me wrong, same goes for me. 

 

 Again, what’s more important is comparing the increase in revenue to the rest of the league. If we’re consistently increasing revenue at a below average rate, that’s not a positive sign. You can’t just go off of where the numbers were when Snyder bought the team to now. That’s why I mentioned that we were only behind the Cowboys initially (which is entirely based off memory, I could be wrong about that). The starting point matters. Location and per capita income play a major role, as well. 

 

We simply don’t have the information to make a sound judgment either way. 

 

But here’s the thing... I’m not sure what this has to do with giving Snyder credit?

 

If, say, your assessment is correct and he’s increased the team’s revenue at a solid rate, that could speak to fan loyalty, location and per capita income more than anything else. That anyone with any semblance of business sense could’ve pulled it off with the inherent positives of the franchise. 

 

Or it could be that he’s found a way to nickel and dime fans, which isn’t something we, as fans, should be giving him “credit” for, is it? 

 

I think it’s an interesting topic just from an economic sense, but anything more than that or to assess Snyder’s acumen in general? Not really. 

 

Most teams were at or around $500 million+ in value in 2002. Your asking for year by year growth, I don't understand why that's more important then showing the Redskins growth is larger then the total value of some teams since that point. That clearly shows they've been growing faster then other teams. And no, not any business person can walk in and 4x the value of a franchise in less then 20 years.  That's part of his job, he got that right even if it doesn't matter to the average person.  But it does matter if he's putting it back into the team and charity, which he has been doing.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@Renegade7 Your defense of Dan Snyder is so egregious that it makes me wonder if you’re just trolling.

 

Again, I don’t think Dan is an evil man that kicked my dog.  He’s just not a good owner/leader/pretty much anything that has to do with owning/running a football team.  That’s not debatable.

[Renegade7]

On 7/9/2018 at 3:37 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I am 'making' every reason?  I never said Dan was the devil and that literally every single thing he's ever done in his life is awful.  But as far as being owner of the Redskins, he's been absolutely dreadful both in the win/loss column and PR.  We are nearly 20 years into his ownership and the win-loss record and happenings around Redskins Park all lend themselves to my point of view.

 

The point is that the items you listed as good things he's done is a very short list that remarkably pales in comparison to all of his wrongdoings.  Not only that but some of those positives you've listed are also a stretch.

 

If I go to a restaurant and the bread before the meal is okay and the mints in the lobby are fresh, yet the meal is overpriced, tastes like crap and makes me throw up - should I head to yelp and make sure the world knows they had some okay bread and fresh mints?

 

Your also delegitazling everything he got right and blasting him for decisions made by people underneath him, not himself.  You've stopped short of calling him the devil, as had this thread, congratulations.

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@Renegade7 Your defense of Dan Snyder is so egregious that it makes me wonder if you’re just trolling.

 

Again, I don’t think Dan is an evil man that kicked my dog.  He’s just not a good owner/leader/pretty much anything that has to do with owning/running a football team.  That’s not debatable.

Not trolling, tired of the negativity. He's not going anywhere, making most of it and looking for bright spots.  What are you doing or saying if you don't see any with this guy?

[Renegade7]

On 7/10/2018 at 7:11 AM, Riggo#44 said:

 

What has gone right under Snyder? We have how many 10 win seasons? 2, 3? We haven't won more than 10 since he took over. We've won 2 playoff games under him? None in the last 13 years. I think he gets more credit than he deserves.

Plenty, jus not enough in the win column, which I understand trumps all.  Yall can't say nothing has gone right since he bought the team, that's hyperbole.  He gets more credit for everything that has gone wrong then he deserves, noNE for what he does right.  FFS, hiring Shanny at the time made total sense, but that was not Snyder's idea to switch to 3-4 and set the strength of our team back close to a decade, he trusted him, a super bowl winning coach, gave him full control, remember?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Your also delegitazling everything he got right and blasting him for decisions made by people underneath him, not himself.  You've stopped short of calling him the devil, as had this thread, congratulations.

Not trolling, tired of the negativity. He's not going anywhere, making most of it and looking for bright spots.  What are you doing or saying if you don't see any with this guy?

 

Again, if you want me to give him a cookie for marrying a great woman that has done great things charity wise with the platform that’s Dan’s Ownership has provided.  *Here’s a cookie*

 

I’m not even being a smartass, I think it’s great what she’s done.

 

But that’s about where the buck stops.  He’s done much more negative than positive as owner of the Redskins and that’s not even remotely debatable.  I just can’t believe defending Dans ownership of the Redskins is a hill you’re willing to die on.  

[Renegade7]

I didn't know Dan got cancer before Tanya did back in '01, damn.

[NickyJ]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Again, if you want me to give him a cookie for marrying a great woman that has done great things charity wise with the platform that’s Dan’s Ownership has provided.  *Here’s a cookie*

 

I’m not even being a smartass, I think it’s great what she’s done.

 

But that’s about where the buck stops.  He’s done much more negative than positive as owner of the Redskins and that’s not even remotely debatable.  I just can’t believe defending Dans ownership of the Redskins is a hill you’re willing to die on.  

Okay, now this is getting hilarious. I hate Dan as much as the next guy, but you're the first to attribute all the good things he's done as being 'only' because of his wife lol

 

I bet Kirk Cousins doesn't really do charitable work. It's just that his wife does lol

[Renegade7]

13 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Again, if you want me to give him a cookie for marrying a great woman that has done great things charity wise with the platform that’s Dan’s Ownership has provided.  *Here’s a cookie*

 

I’m not even being a smartass, I think it’s great what she’s done.

 

But that’s about where the buck stops.  He’s done much more negative than positive as owner of the Redskins and that’s not even remotely debatable.  I just can’t believe defending Dans ownership of the Redskins is a hill you’re willing to die on.  

Cookie?  He has his own charities bro and had cancer, too, your being condescending towards that reality at best.  Stop minimizng his contributions to that and helping her do it.  Snyder is not perfect, but I can tell the difference between someone who doesn't care and cares too much. 

 

I can else tell he's learning, comes a cross like he wanted to make it work himself, but I was always happy he was willing to spend the money on players he felt he needed to to win.  He deserves to get blasted for not getting the people needed to help him get the right players, but I can see that starting to turn around.

 

The difference between our stances on this guy is I'm finding things to give him credit for, show progress, and you don't want to hear it.  Why that's a hill you choose to die on is nothing new, jus getting old.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Okay, now this is getting hilarious. I hate Dan as much as the next guy, but you're the first to attribute all the good things he's done as being 'only' because of his wife lol

 

I bet Kirk Cousins doesn't really do charitable work. It's just that his wife does lol

 

His wife’s charitable contributions are well documented.  The ‘charitable’ contributions that Renegade7 brought up was the farce made up for native Americans after he went hard on never changing the Skins name.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

The difference between our stances on this guy is I'm finding things to give him credit for, show progress, and you don't want to hear it.  Why that's a hill you choose to die on is nothing new, jus getting old.

 

Perhaps he does part with his time and money for meaningful charities.  The two I’ve read most about in here are the primary efforts led by his wife for breast cancer and the Native American thigamajiggy that apparently nobody but you took seriously.

 

My apologies, you glowing beacon of positivity. 

 

I can’t help but laugh at the notion that you literally think I’m sitting here foaming at the mouth about Dan.  No, I’m just making the bluntly obvious observation that he’s done way more harm than good for the franchise and you’re digging deep to find stretch positives for what I don’t know.

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Perhaps he does part with his time and money for meaningful charities.  The two I’ve read most about in here are the primary efforts led by his wife for breast cancer and the Native American thigamajiggy that apparently nobody but you took seriously.

 

My apologies, you glowing beacon of positivity. 

 

I can’t help but laugh at the notion that you literally think I’m sitting here foaming at the mouth about Dan.  No, I’m just making the bluntly obvious observation that he’s done way more harm than good for the franchise and you’re digging deep to find stretch positives for what I don’t know.

 

Your cynical of the man, like most in this thread, but also being unreasonable. We sucked most of the 90s before he got here, so I don't buy the whole he ruined the franchise nonsense, we've also sucked before. I don't think your foaming at the mouth, don't put words in my mouth, jus quote me. I also have a personal reason for lookin for positivity where I can, I'd be dead otherwise. It's jus football, and like I said when I first came in the thread, snyder bashing threads have gotten old AF, we can do better, or at least try to.  I'll make a thread later.