Vanguard

Is this the best Defensive Front we've had in years?

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9 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

 

The best player should play.  I think you have enough leaders.  They traded away a good locker room leader on the line in Chris Baker.  How important is it then?  If he's better than McGee, start him.  If he's not, I'm not sure why he's there.

 

I believe in the same thing and I believe Hood is better than McGee. I also think he has other qualities that if it were me I would take him over McGee. That doesn't make me "high" on Hood. Just means I think he is better than McGee.

 

They did not trade Baker away they let him walk as a FA, just like Tampa just did. And he was not a good leader. He was just mouthy, more mouth than play. Disapeeared in big moments. I was glad they let him go. We see how great he was in Tampa. They didn't even resign him. He will likely not last long at Cinn either.

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1 hour ago, Vanguard said:

 

They traded away a good locker room leader on the line in Chris Baker. 

Actually they cut his ass. Nice guy but was just an Albert Haynesworth lite on the field. lazy AS HELL. Once you got past his highlights you saw some serious I'm not gonna try plays. Its cool that he is a caps fan, but he made his bed, and now its in Cincinnati. 

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48 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I believe in the same thing and I believe Hood is better than McGee. I also think he has other qualities that if it were me I would take him over McGee. That doesn't make me "high" on Hood. Just means I think he is better than McGee.

 

They did not trade Baker away they let him walk as a FA, just like Tampa just did. And he was not a good leader. He was just mouthy, more mouth than play. Disapeeared in big moments. I was glad they let him go. We see how great he was in Tampa. They didn't even resign him. He will likely not last long at Cinn either.

 

You're right.  They did let him walk.

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12 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

Once you got past his highlights you saw some serious I'm not gonna try plays.

Never forget

Image result for chris baker celebration fumble gif

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, skinny21 said:

As of now, I’d rank the dlinemen something like this...

 

Vs pass:

1.  Ioannidas 

2. Allen

3. Lanier

4. Taylor

5. Settle

6. Payne 

7. Hood/McGee

 

Vs run:

1. Allen

2. Taylor/Payne 

3. McGee

4. Settle

5. Hood/Ioannidas

6. Lanier

 

This list is fluid obviously, as Payne, Settle, Ioannidas and Lanier have room to improve (so does Allen, but he’s already at/near the top).  Hood could also see a touch of improvement playing in a role more suited to him, assuming he makes the team.  

Weird to quote myself, but I posted the original before finishing my thought.  

 

Looking at DL snap counts, the top 32 or so guys (based on snaps played) averaged around 75% of their team’s defensive snaps.  So, as SIP alluded to, my guess is the 34, in part, acted as a breather for our DTs.  

In essence, rather than having your linemen switching from 34 to 43 (or the reverse), the team used different personnel for the two lineups.  This both allows a natural sub situation, and allows your linemen to focus on getting comfortable in just one scheme.  

I know there’s more to this (the techniques and gaps they play, in particular), but until they see more from Payne and Settle, I’d expect this to remain fairly consistent from last year.  

 

My hunch is that Allen and Ioannidas continue to take a large majority of the DT snaps.  I could maybe see Lanier subbing in at times for Allen in long passing downs, especially as they want to manage Allen for injuries sake.  On the other hand, maybe I’m giving Lanier too much credit here.  Allen is more balanced than Ioannidas, but pass rush is the bigger premium, particularly in our nickel package with 4 down linemen.  

 

In our 34 then, I’d think it will be Payne and 2 others from Taylor, McGee, Settle and Hood.  Right now I’d give the edge to Taylor and McGee, but if Settle is who we hope he is, he could well take McGee’s spot.  Certainly possible they like Hood better than McGee too, though I think they’ll prize McGee’s run stopping more with 2 rush OLBs on the field.  

 

One other wildcard is if they want to give Kerrigan or Smith a breather.  Previously, we’d bring in Galette.  I think they will try out McPhee and Anderson (hopefully a suped up version), but I wouldn’t be surprised if they turned to another pass rushing dlinemen instead - in certain situations at least.  

Edited by skinny21
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2 hours ago, Darth Tater said:

@skinny21

We were rarely in 43. Mostly ran 40 fronts, yes, but usually as a 42.

Good point, I often (erroneously) find myself defaulting to typing ‘43’ when referring to our non-‘base’ D.  Thanks

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7 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Weird to quote myself, but I posted the original before finishing my thought.  

 

Looking at DL snap counts, the top 32 or so guys (based on snaps played) averaged around 75% of their team’s defensive snaps.  So, as SIP alluded to, my guess is the 34, in part, acted as a breather for our DTs.  

In essence, rather than having your linemen switching from 34 to 43 (or the reverse), the team used different personnel for the two lineups.  This both allows a natural sub situation, and allows your linemen to focus on getting comfortable in just one scheme.  

I know there’s more to this (the techniques and gaps they play, in particular), but until they see more from Payne and Settle, I’d expect this to remain fairly consistent from last year.  

 

My hunch is that Allen and Ioannidas continue to take a large majority of the DT snaps.  I could maybe see Lanier subbing in at times for Allen in long passing downs, especially as they want to manage Allen for injuries sake.  On the other hand, maybe I’m giving Lanier too much credit here.  Allen is more balanced than Ioannidas, but pass rush is the bigger premium, particularly in our nickel package with 4 down linemen.  

 

In our 34 then, I’d think it will be Payne and 2 others from Taylor, McGee, Settle and Hood.  Right now I’d give the edge to Taylor and McGee, but if Settle is who we hope he is, he could well take McGee’s spot.  Certainly possible they like Hood better than McGee too, though I think they’ll prize McGee’s run stopping more with 2 rush OLBs on the field.  

 

One other wildcard is if they want to give Kerrigan or Smith a breather.  Previously, we’d bring in Galette.  I think they will try out McPhee and Anderson (hopefully a suped up version), but I wouldn’t be surprised if they turned to another pass rushing dlinemen instead - in certain situations at least.  

 

I don't really think Payne was drafted to play NT, per se, but as a do everything lineman that can start at effectively nose and play just as effectively in the 42 base. 

 

I think that if they can get him to look like 50% of his championship game self, then in passing situations, he is probably the primary backup at DT, behind Ioannidis and Allen.

 

In running situations, such as when we are behind and the other team might like to run clock, or in games in which we are being gutted by the opposing team's ground game, I expect to see Payne get a ton of snaps next to Allen in the 42. This would allow us to stay in our preferred base package while still fairing better against the run. 

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@anselmheifer

 

Nice post - I absolutely agree with all of that.  I’ll add that I could also see Payne playing DE with Taylor or Settle in the middle.  

 

I’m glad we added to the dline, now I’m looking forward to seeing just how much we added (what these guys will bring). 

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20 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

I hope so,  cuz look at the quads on the RB we have to face twice a year.

 

usatsi-10861606.jpg

 

Almost thought it was photoshopped. :rofl89:

11 hours ago, skinny21 said:

 

One other wildcard is if they want to give Kerrigan or Smith a breather.  Previously, we’d bring in Galette.  I think they will try out McPhee and Anderson (hopefully a suped up version), but I wouldn’t be surprised if they turned to another pass rushing dlinemen instead - in certain situations at least.  

 

Anderson has left a lot to be desired.  And normally players go through a sophomore slump.  Can he be any less impactful?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Vanguard said:

 

 

Anderson has left a lot to be desired.  And normally players go through a sophomore slump.  Can he be any less impactful?

Haha, yeah, Anderson really does underwhelmed, didn’t he.  I’m guessing he saw how last year worked out and decided he needed to make some changes.  Here’s hoping at least one of the backup OLBs can shine a bit... 

Edited by skinny21

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13 hours ago, Vanguard said:

 

Anderson has left a lot to be desired.  And normally players go through a sophomore slump.  Can he be any less impactful?

 

Well, not really true, at least on this defense lately. Just off the top of my head, both Matt Ioannidis and Kendall Fuller looked HORRIBLE as rookies only to have very strong second seasons. Maybe it's something about what we look for when we draft D (raw talent over being NFL-ready) but it hasn't been rare at all for some of our guys to take a big leap forward in year 2. 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Vanguard said:

 

Almost thought it was photoshopped. :rofl89:

 

Anderson has left a lot to be desired.  And normally players go through a sophomore slump.  Can he be any less impactful?

 

He didn't play much, but when he did set the edge on runs he visibly popped/stoned the guy kicking out to block him.. only to have the rb cut inside and dodge the ILB or DE trying to get him. It was refreshing to see. he had a few hurries rushing from LDE. Hopefully slimmer and faster will help him turn the corner.

I've got high hopes for Anderson, hopefully he can have a big year 2 and will be a wildman on fire coming off the edge spelling Kerrigan or Smith.

 

As for the DL, I really hope they don't entertain some silly ideas of playing either Payne or Allen at DE. Allen is good at DE, but he shines at the 3.. that's where he needs to be. Same with Payne, either the 1 or 3 for him. maybe some 0, but those guys have too much quickness and smarts to be bogged down at the nose or outside at DE.

I think it'll be interesting to see some looks with both Settle and Payne inside, or Payne & Allen, or Payne & Ion during run downs. Passing I hope it's out of a 4 DL look, with Allen and Ion inside.

 

eta, this is what Anderson brings vs the run. I know this clip is only preseason but he did it during the regular season as well.. just nothing on youtube though.

 

Edited by crabbypatty
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Posted (edited)

I didn't know Anderson slimmed down.  That's good news.

 

I was listening to Doc Walker, and he mentioned that Phil Taylor is down from 340 to 315.  And that if he's healthy, he's the best player we have at nose tackle. 

Edited by Vanguard
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38 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

I didn't know Anderson slimmed down.  That's good news.

 

I was listening to Doc Walker, and he mentioned that Phil Taylor is down from 340 to 315.  And that if he's healthy, he's the best player we have at nose tackle. 

 

That sounds good, but I certainly hope he's not better then our first round draft pick for the position.  

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Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

That sounds good, but I certainly hope he's not better then our first round draft pick for the position.  

 

I agree.  It made me raise my eyebrow's a little bit.  I'm thinking he mainly meant from an experience standpoint.  But I hope he's still wrong also.

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1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

@crabbypatty You’re saying they shouldn’t play DE when we have 4 down linemen, right?  (as opposed to DE in a 34)

Correct. At the 3 tech in a 4 down lineman set. In a 3-4 alignment he'd be a 5 tech.

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18 hours ago, crabbypatty said:

 

 

 

eta, this is what Anderson brings vs the run. I know this clip is only preseason but he did it during the regular season as well.. just nothing on youtube though.

 

 

 

This is something I feel we've missed in our defense since we drafted Orakpo.  We've had good pass rushing OLBs, but few have been willing to take on a pulling guard and win the battle.  Other times our OLBs find themselves running themselves out of the play but pushing too far up field.  

 

I have high hopes for Anderson taking that next step this year as well.  Reports are that he's invested in his body a bit and is trying to get better physically for the position.  Thats the first step in the right direction.  Now we need to execute the game plan.  I hope Manusky can get all of our OLBs to watch that film and say 'DO THAT!'   I'd forfeit a few sacks a season if it meant plays like this are executed with more frequency, with the OLB blowing up an O-lineman 3 yards behind the line, opening up a free lane for the 2nd level to attack. 

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Washington may come as a surprise as the defense with the highest pressure rate (38.3 percent) last season. The Redskins were only No. 12 in pressure rate in 2016, but none of the top four teams here ranked higher than 12th in 2016. Washington has used a lot of high draft picks on edge rushers over the years, but old reliable Ryan Kerrigan led the way with 35 hurries and 13 sacks. Preston Smith chipped in 29 hurries, and Junior Galette (24 hurries) finally returned to action after tearing his Achilles two years in a row. Washington has not brought Galette back, but looks to get more than five games out of Jonathan Allen, a first-round rookie who was injured. What Washington really missed last season was better play in the secondary. Although cornerback Josh Norman was not thrown at very frequently, he was disappointing when he was targeted, ranking just 60th in adjusted success rate and 76th in adjusted yards per pass allowed, according to Sports Info Solutions charting.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/defense-and-pass-pressure-2017

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Posted (edited)

If it is, than don't get used to it. We'll have it for about 3-4 years because of the ridiculous NFL salary cap.

 

If all these guys hit- Allen, Payne, Settle, Ioniddis- we will only be able to keep 1 or maybe 2. 

 

I've said for years the NFL needs to give forgiveness in cap to teams that drafted talent. For example, if you drafted a player and he resigns after rookie deal there's a  10% discount on salary cap implication. Player keeps full contract. If they resign third contract, 20% salary cap reduction. This will allow for players to stay with teams.

 

This year was a prime example of average to above average players having to leave because of cap issues (Breeland, Grant, Long, Murphy). Ionidis will be fetching a nice payday when his time comes up. With Allen, Payne and maybe even Settle coming down the road the Skins would be crazy to allocate resources to a position that will take significant cap % in near future.

 

I just don't like the current NFL salary cap structure and it simply doesn't promote good drafts. But yea, its the best front we've had in years that hasn't played a single down yet ;)

Edited by Bonez3
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2 hours ago, Bonez3 said:

If it is, than don't get used to it. We'll have it for about 3-4 years because of the ridiculous NFL salary cap.

 

If all these guys hit- Allen, Payne, Settle, Ioniddis- we will only be able to keep 1 or maybe 2. 

 

I've said for years the NFL needs to give forgiveness in cap to teams that drafted talent. For example, if you drafted a player and he resigns after rookie deal there's a  10% discount on salary cap implication. Player keeps full contract. If they resign third contract, 20% salary cap reduction. This will allow for players to stay with teams.

 

This year was a prime example of average to above average players having to leave because of cap issues (Breeland, Grant, Long, Murphy). Ionidis will be fetching a nice payday when his time comes up. With Allen, Payne and maybe even Settle coming down the road the Skins would be crazy to allocate resources to a position that will take significant cap % in near future.

 

I just don't like the current NFL salary cap structure and it simply doesn't promote good drafts. But yea, its the best front we've had in years that hasn't played a single down yet ;)

 

You know what, you're right.  And I like your idea.  And if not that, the league should do something.  Although I really think Trent Murphy's improvement was almost strictly due to P.E.D.'s.

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