FaithnMonk

What to do with LG

What to do at LG?  

106 members have voted

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  1. 1. What should Skins do at LG?

    • In Kouandjio we trust
      12
    • Move Ty Nsekhe
      33
    • Find Vet to compete with Kouandjio- best man wins
      29
    • Our starting LG is not currently on the roster
      32

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  • Poll closed on 05/05/2018 at 04:55 PM

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I just hope they don't treat LG as a problem just to throw cheap and available bodies at.  And at this point, all we've got is an assortment of late round/undrafted FA/journeymen competing for the spot.  Here's hoping some capable FA vet shakes out in the later stages of the offseason.

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29 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I just hope they don't treat LG as a problem just to throw cheap and available bodies at.  And at this point, all we've got is an assortment of late round/undrafted FA/journeymen competing for the spot.  Here's hoping some capable FA vet shakes out in the later stages of the offseason.

 

I agree to a point. But i will say the way you build over time to make it last is that you fill the holes you can when you can. The ones you can;t you throw a bunch of people at it hoping one sticks. Then the next time you get a chance to fill holes that becomes one of your priorities. 

 

They have the resources to do something now. I hope they do it. Someone brought up trading. I would be totally Ok with them shopping a draft pick or maybe even two if they were low enough to find a solid G. 

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5 hours ago, Darth Tater said:

From some of my reading about Christian, I suspect they also take a hard look at him as a guard.

 

No way. He is too weak. Snacks would absolutely manhandle him

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18 minutes ago, method man said:

 

No way. He is too weak. Snacks would absolutely manhandle him

Aren't left tackles supposed to be the cream of the crop of offensive lineman? Bigger, stronger, faster, more agile? That's why they are left tackles. It would seem taking a superior athlete and transitioning him to a less demanding position would be the thing to do. Plus you can get a good guard (out of an average L tackle) that way in the 4th round instead of spending a 2nd rounder on a good guard.

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16 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Aren't left tackles supposed to be the cream of the crop of offensive lineman? Bigger, stronger, faster, more agile? That's why they are left tackles. It would seem taking a superior athlete and transitioning him to a less demanding position would be the thing to do. Plus you can get a good guard (out of an average L tackle) that way in the 4th round instead of spending a 2nd rounder on a good guard.

 

There's a reason or 2 why teams typically don't like to move LT's to Guard.

I can't remember exactly, but IIRC it's because LT's tend to be tall, and I think they prefer not to have really tall Guards. I think part of the reason is because it can make it harder for the QB to see over him. I could be wrong about that, though.

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2 hours ago, jsharrin55 said:

https://www.hogshaven.com/2017/5/27/15700980/a-closer-look-at-kyle-kalis-with-maize-n-brew-redskins-nfl Since there is all this back and forth, here is a quick link to why this is my pick to take a Guard spot. He was a 5 star recruit and got poor coaching and improved, but still went undrafted. The tools are there, he has a year of NFL experience and looked solid in pre-season. Another off-season of strengthening and coaching.

 

Thanks for this - it is good insight. 

 

He didn't stick with us after last year's TC but he must have made a bit of an impression to be picked up off waivers in December. I'm not convinced he's the answer, but I'm glad he'll be in the mix for TC. By all accounts his attitude and work ethic are just what we're after. Now the question is how much progress has he made since last TC?

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1 hour ago, method man said:

 

No way. He is too weak. Snacks would absolutely manhandle him

I agree, although walterfootball says he can play G or C.  Has the long arms to keep guys off of him and can really fire off the ball.  He needs to hit the weight room for sure though.  

43 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Aren't left tackles supposed to be the cream of the crop of offensive lineman? Bigger, stronger, faster, more agile? That's why they are left tackles. It would seem taking a superior athlete and transitioning him to a less demanding position would be the thing to do. Plus you can get a good guard (out of an average L tackle) that way in the 4th round instead of spending a 2nd rounder on a good guard.

In general, yes.  OTs tend to be longer and therefore have a bit less leverage (higher center of gravity), and its tougher to find guys that are athletic enough to play OT (needing to stop speed rushers) but also stout/strong enough to play G.  

24 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

There's a reason or 2 why teams typically don't like to move LT's to Guard.

I can't remember exactly, but IIRC it's because LT's tend to be tall, and I think they prefer not to have really tall Guards. I think part of the reason is because it can make it harder for the QB to see over him. I could be wrong about that, though.

Guards tend to be shorter because they need to get low enough to out leverage the DTs.  

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7 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I would absolutely make an aggressive trade to bring in the best vet we can get, even if it costs us a 2nd or 3rd next year. 

 

With the addition of Payne and Guise, along with Smith, I see no reason we can't win our division next season and make a run. 

I suggested they should have been aggressive in FA overall, and they weren't.  I'm not sure they will get aggressive now.

 

I'm not sure you can count on a couple of rookies to really elevate the team, but they will help.  Especially Guice.  RBs can contribute immediately.  

7 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

I wouldn't be much surprised if we decided to switch Scherff to our left side of the line and plugs in Catalina or Kalis in the right spot.

 

That may sounds weird, but IMO that would be the best way to deal with the situation. Scherff is good enough to handle the LG duty.

I'm not really sure there's THAT big of a difference in right or left guard.  Defensive fronts move around a lot, so I think if you've got a RG who's comfortable there, eh, leave it alone. 

 

Though Williams/Scherff would be a killer left side.  

6 hours ago, NeverSurrender said:

Arie is serviceable to say the least.  I would just have open competition during camp.  Honestly I think we will be fine here. 

Arie was cut after TC last year and brought back only due to injuries.  I'm not sure what that says about him.  He's as likely to get cut after TC this year as anything....

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1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

There's a reason or 2 why teams typically don't like to move LT's to Guard.

I can't remember exactly, but IIRC it's because LT's tend to be tall, and I think they prefer not to have really tall Guards. I think part of the reason is because it can make it harder for the QB to see over him. I could be wrong about that, though.

It is actually quite common.  One of our greatest guards was a failed left tackle, albeit he was a first rounder who eventually became our starting RT for a couple of years.  More recently, Trent Williams has done an excellent job in several opportunities.  You also see many guards who were tackles in college.

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Just now, Darth Tater said:

It is actually quite common.  One of our greatest guards was a failed left tackle, albeit he was a first rounder who eventually became our starting RT for a couple of years.  More recently, Trent Williams has done an excellent job in several opportunities.  You also see many guards who were tackles in college.

 

Yep, and don't forget back in the day when they moved Joe Jacoby from left tackle to left guard when they got left tackle Jim Lachey in a trade from the Raiders. 

 

Tackles can become guards and do very well.

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Depending on what happens to this position, we are looking at the very real possibility that both our entire Offensive Line, and our entire Defensive Line, consists totally of players we drafted ourselves, or signed as UDFA.

Quite commendable.

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2 hours ago, MassSkinsFan said:

 

Thanks for this - it is good insight. 

 

He didn't stick with us after last year's TC but he must have made a bit of an impression to be picked up off waivers in December. I'm not convinced he's the answer, but I'm glad he'll be in the mix for TC. By all accounts his attitude and work ethic are just what we're after. Now the question is how much progress has he made since last TC?

 

I remember many thinking Kalis did better than Catalina, but the team wanting the guy with T experience/ability.  

 

https://riggosrag.com/2017/08/31/redskins-5-bold-predictions-preseason-week-4/

 

Here is one more.  Mentions Catalina with tackle experience.  I don't see much more about after pre-season evaluation, so I'm useless there.  Although they tried the PS and Colts scooped him up to start, so someone else saw something.  Although he did have some struggles there at times.  

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Aren't left tackles supposed to be the cream of the crop of offensive lineman? Bigger, stronger, faster, more agile? That's why they are left tackles. It would seem taking a superior athlete and transitioning him to a less demanding position would be the thing to do. Plus you can get a good guard (out of an average L tackle) that way in the 4th round instead of spending a 2nd rounder on a good guard.

 

Tackles are tall with long arms so they can maintain contact on the edge whereas guards are usually shorter and expected to be more powerful.  A guard may not need the athleticism or length of a tackle but great strength and leverage is required.  A good tackle might be so atheletical they are tough to get around but lack the strength to push a NG or DT in run blocking.

Edited by Veryoldschool
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3 hours ago, method man said:

 

No way. He is too weak. Snacks would absolutely manhandle him

Much more likely trent moves to LG during the twilight years of his career and dominates there, with Christian bulking up and using his athleticism at LT

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Jahri Evans?  He's not young.  But the FA pickings right now are slim.

 

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/04/04/jahri-evans-willing-play-waiting-game-packers/486106002/

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-free-agents-who-could-garner-one-year-deals

 

JAHRI EVANS – G

Jahri Evans is another player some way into his late-career decline, but again is coming down from such a high that he still represents a capable set of hands at a spot where some teams are starting disastrous players. His overall PFF grade in 2017 was 71.7, good enough for 30th in the league, but this is a league with 64 starting guards, and many more hitting the field due to injury, so Evans can still patch up a problem spot for a team, and that could make all the difference to an offense. He allowed just two sacks and 20 additional pressures in 2017.

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Posted (edited)

I keep saying it but no one is listening, Arie played very well once he came back and Catalina, Kalis and Bergstrom were all on the roster yet none of them could beat Arie out of the job and as a matter of fact Bergstrom and Catalina were often walked right back into Cousins lap or got no movement in the run game. Arie was doing both pretty well and if you don't think so go back and re-watch the games he started, I believe he will make a big step forward this year as did Morgan Moses when many here had written him off as a wasted draft pick and bust. Yet he played so well that Scheriff was moved to guard, so IMHO the coaching staff believes they have someone who can play LG at a high level.

And as far as the new UDFAs we have Timon (Stoneybrook), Welsh (Iowa) or the guy from CSU Pueblo will be the ones tried at guard along with Arie (incumbent starter), Kalis, Franklin, Jefferson, Catalina etc and may the best LG win because we not only need stout starters but  stout backups as well so there's no dropoff when a starter goes out.

 

I also believe that Christian is our swing tackle of the future, that's why he was drafted, not to play guard.

Edited by skinsOLfan
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I'm all but certain they're starting camp with Ty at LG

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@Voice of Reason yeah, Bruce is ****ing cheap as ****, so I doubt we'll see any aggressive trades for a starting LG. 

 

I'd do it. Maybe even dangle Reed, although I think hes poised for a monster year. 

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I think it's probable that we have our left guard in one of the players who was with us last year.  But what about a back-up center? Bergstrom would be the only one with experience at center, right?  

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We obviously need to make a signing at G, and I think the FO is aware of this. They were reportedly looking at guard in the draft and they spoke outwardly about hoping for some good post 6/1 cuts. I just don't think the draft lined up for them to take a G. 

 

Here is a scary thought. If we don't add a G/C in FA, think about what the middle of our line looks like if Scherff goes down, or, God forbid, we have two injuries. We can't enter the season that thin at the position, if we are well managed. 


Also, I agree with the line of thinking earlier in this thread about playing Scherff at LG. At least we would have a side of the line we could run towards in short yardage. 

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Long had some injuries and was getting run over. He was a better guard and was out of position, even though he’d played center before. 

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1 hour ago, skinsOLfan said:

I keep saying it but no one is listening, Arie played very well once he came back and Catalina, Kalis and Bergstrom were all on the roster yet none of them could beat Arie out of the job and as a matter of fact Bergstrom and Catalina were often walked right back into Cousins lap or got no movement in the run game. Arie was doing both pretty well and if you don't think so go back and re-watch the games he started, I believe he will make a big step forward this year as did Morgan Moses when many here had written him off as a wasted draft pick and bust. Yet he played so well that Scheriff was moved to guard, so IMHO the coaching staff believes they have someone who can play LG at a high level.

I don't agree.  The game-field videos I've watched, revealed how low Arie's ceiling actually is.  

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