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    • By JimmiJo in ES Coverage
         1

       
      And we are back!
       
      Hello boys and girls, welcome to another year of Washington Redskins football, home-team style.
       
      My name is JimmiJo and I am joined by my shuttered compatriot, Spaceman Spiff. Together we bring you the sights and sounds of Redskins preseason football. Tonight represents the first home installment for Washington. I will be looking for fan enthusiasm, tho it is difficult to gauge interest-level from the preseason. These are the games that the season ticket holders give to their siblings and coworkers.
       
      Tonight may be different as we expect Alex Smith to play. The pundits keep telling me he is Kirk Cousins only better. That will be awesome if so. 
       
      We are quickly filling the list with season-ending injuries, with Washington losing three projected contributors in the first week of preseason. This wince-producing stat is made worse when we consider the projected contributions of Derrius Guice, now lost for the year.
       
      All he was brought here to do was resurrect the Redskins' rushing game. 
       
      This for me is the biggest area of concern for me. The running game has got to get better for this team to have any reason success this year.
       
      Stand by for Inactives...
       
      An hour later I remember they don't do inactives in the preseason. Hey, it's preseason for us too!
       
      Not much to report. Very sparse crowd so far. But given it is a work-night and rush hour is just wrapping up on the beltway I am not surprised we are not overflowing with people yet.
       
      The Redskins appear to be wearing burgundy tops and mustard bottoms, for those keeping score at home. The Jets meanwhile, are sporting white tops and green bottoms.
       
      So far just the kickers and long snappers are warming up from both teams. 
       
      The hot, sunny day is giving way to a warm, breezy evening. Should be fairly pleasant viewing conditions for those coming out.
       
      Kickoff

      It is about that time. Follow along in-game on Twitter @Skinscast
       
      Half
       
      Alex Smith looked sharp, going 4-6 for 48-yards and a 91 passer-rating. 
       
      But that's not the story of this game.
       
      The story is the injuries that continue to mount to running backs. Samaje Perine had an impressive 30-yard run. Then limped off to be evaluated for an ankle sprain. Next was Byron Marshall.  A lower leg injury they say.
       
      The Redskins are suffering the worst run of injuries this early maybe ever. 
       
      JimmiJo
       
      I am not sure how much we learned tonight. I take that back.
       
      Kevin Hogan, whom I had taken to calling ‘Nogan,’ somehow produced a lovely comeback victory with no time to spare. Way to send them home happy.
       
      Beyond the excitement at the end I am not sure we learned much.
       
      Alex Smith is exactly who we thought he was. Smith went 4-for-6 for 48-yards and a passer rating of 91. There was some excitement on his first call from scrimmage, when Smith play actioned the handoff and kept the ball on a bootleg, he turned to setup to hit Paul Richardson and instead received a face-full of Jets’ linebacker Jordan Jenkins. Smith completed the pass to Richardson and Jenkins was handed a 15- roughing call.
       
      The offense are exactly who we thought they are. Feckless in the redzone; unable to produce anything but field goals. Even when the stars did align, with Colt McCoy connecting Cam Sims, area spectacular touchdown catch; cruel fate intervened with a chickenscratch procedure call.
       
      The injuries are exactly what we feared they could be. Why is it every running back who goes for 30-yards on a single play comes up limping? Samaje Perine ran for 30-yards on his one carry on the night.
       
      The next time he was seen was on the way to the locker room to have an ankle looked at.
       
      Then there was Byron Marshall. He barely got into the game before coming out with a leg injury.
       
      After the first few drives Washington did very little offensively until they had to at the very end.
       
      And as little as this preseason game meant, it was nice to see the valiant stop at the goal line. It was even nicer to see Mr. Hogan lead the team down the field and to victory.
       
      Oh yea, we learned one more thing - Dustin Hopkins can kick field goals.
       
      Hail!
PCS

Welcome to the Washington Redskins Da'Ron Payne DT Alabama

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11 hours ago, Vanguard said:

 

You're scaring me.  This sounds like the pattern of thinking Redskins management has.  The guy is dead weight.  When he's in the game he doesn't go forward or backward, he's just there.  He has no presence, he doesn't make plays.  It's not that I don't like him, he just doesn't make this team better.

What kind of extreme fan are you? That's what we do here. The starters are never good enough and veterans are stealing snaps from the great up and comers who went undefeated for no reason.

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Posted (edited)

Lanier to me can be the opposite coin of McGee.  McGee decent against the run, does nothing for the pass rush.  For Lanier if he's not pushing forward at the QB and instead is holding the point of attack, he's not hot against the run.  Its the reason I am sure PFF grades him as actually by their metrics as a "poor" defensive lineman.  Not that I agree with that, though.

 

When some talk about how they can stop the run much better with Jonathan Allen in there.  Well, Allen played almost always on the right.  Right where Lanier is lined up on that play.  With Allen out the two guys that seem to man that spot the most were Lanier and McClain.  They were gashed at times on that side.  McGee was good against the run for the most part on the left.  

 

Not saying I am down on Lanier.  Heck pass rush out of that position is helpful.  But I see him with this lineup (before injuries inevitably kick in) as the 3rd and long guy -- sometimes Manusky had him lined up at 0 or 1 in those spots. 

 

giantslanier2.thumb.png.09287107e846d6da02f8cf1c4afeb6d1.png

 

 

The guard, handles Lanier by himself shoves him to his right.  You can see the difference by staring at the hash mark in both frames.   Gallman gets a 16 yard gain running to that side.giantslanier.thumb.png.36209ed0b7b39d6f13b11de35d734a5a.png

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Gallman gets a 16 yard gain running to that side.

 


This helps... 

 

 

 

Holding.png

 

As far as Lanier, I agree.  His value is going forward.   It's almost like he's hesitant and so focused on trying to figure out the play that he forgets the blocker is coming and gets taken off guard...   I'm not ready to give up on him, but he's a piece, not an asset.. yet. 

Edited by OVCChairman
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

 

As far as Lanier, I agree.  His value is going forward.   It's almost like he's hesitant and so focused on trying to figure out the play that he forgets the blocker is coming and gets taken off guard...   I'm not ready to give up on him, but he's a piece, not an asset.. yet. 

 

With the strong caveat that obviously I am just a lay person and not pretending to be an expert but It was hard to miss if you slow down film on the D line as to how individuals played.  For a guard if you can just occupy the D lineman at the point of the attack and increase the gap by shoving the D lineman out of the way in the other direction -- you've done your job typically.  And I saw that with Lanier a bunch of times.  But I still like him, you need a guy who can get to the passer, that's a big deal.  It would be cool though if he can improve against the run.  I don't think its a coincidence that with Allen manning R-DE they were decent stopping the run and replaced mostly by McClain and to a lesser degree Lanier and some others -- not so much.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I try to speak with Lanier anytime I do a game for ES.

 

Whenever I ask about what he needs to improve on to get on the field more he talks about play recognition, reading keys and run fits. He was as raw as it gets coming in, basically. But man is he disruptive when he knows what he’s doing. 

 

He needs to take another step this offseason, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he emerges as one of our better Dlinemen. Would be nice. 

 

I think the game against Seattle, if I recall correctly, was where you could really see him display what he can be. Played great. They suck at running the ball though, lol, so it was a perfect opponent for him. 

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15 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

I try to speak with Lanier anytime I do a game for ES.

 

Whenever I ask about what he needs to improve on to get on the field more he talks about play recognition, reading keys and run fits. He was as raw as it gets coming in, basically. But man is he disruptive when he knows what he’s doing. 

 

He needs to take another step this offseason, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he emerges as one of our better Dlinemen. Would be nice. 

 

I think the game against Seattle, if I recall correctly, was where you could really see him display what he can be. Played great. They suck at running the ball though, lol, so it was a perfect opponent for him. 

 

To me the thing about Lanier even if he remains a one dimensional pass rushing type -- that's still a big deal.  Pass rush up the middle means a lot.  But yeah it would be great to see him develop against the run, too. 

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Paul Conner @P_ConnerJr

Paul Conner Retweeted The Team 980

Awesome story lol Zach Brown: "I knew they were running a lead or PA Lead cuz I noticed the widened gap. I went to alert Payne and before I could say anything he said "Yeah, nah, imma close that off." So Good.

 

Paul Conner @P_ConnerJr

Once Payne said "Yeah, nah, imma close that off," all Brown could say was "Aight, cool."

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A lot of fans don't seem to appreciate just how much intuitive communication goes on across the D front, and how critically important it is. Your guys see, but do they see the same things? Interpret them the same way? Instinctively rely on their teammate to take care of that while I take care of this? There is a lot more complexity to it, and top units develop almost telepathy at the snap to crush a play, cut it off and funnel back into the LBs waiting to kill it. Gotta be able to sacrifice ego for the team, that IMO is one of the joys in watching D well played, when it works it is results oriented entirely. That kind of comment Cali posted, "Yeah, see it, got it" shorthand bodes well for this group. Want to see that from the secondary too.

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Big thanks to @Skinsinparadise and @thesubmittedone for your research behind each of your posts. I know it takes a ton of time. 

 

Yeah, TC is going to be really fun to watch to see how they use Payne. It looks like they are already penciling him as a 3-down lineman. Obviously he’ll be a NT in 3-4 base for at least downs 1&2 but it looks like they have him in there as a DT in nickel. 

 

I like Swearinger’s recent comments about Payne vs Vea regarding Payne as the more athletic and that skill fits the NFL better. Coupled with Nick Saban’s recent comments saying Payne is more versatile at a 310-320 pound weight than when he was 340 as a sophmore makes me believe the Skins coaches buy into this as well. So Payne, I believe. was drafted to be a 3-down lineman and that is the goal. 

 

They’ll be rotating other personnel in and out during TC to find the best group but I think Allen and Payne will have the lion’s share of snaps come the regular season. Ionnidis and McGee will be situational ends. I think Lanier and Settle are depth guys. Maybe Hood gets cut but I too see him as depth. 

 

It’s gonna be real fun watching these guys develop over the next couple of months. 

 

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2 hours ago, LD0506 said:

A lot of fans don't seem to appreciate just how much intuitive communication goes on across the D front, and how critically important it is. Your guys see, but do they see the same things? Interpret them the same way? Instinctively rely on their teammate to take care of that while I take care of this

 

Part of the reason why consistency & chemistry are so important and why building and developing players around each other is usually the better way to go as far as units on a whole.  No problem adding a piece or two through free agency, but ideally you want a unit on either side of the football to not only be good individual players, but to also have trust in each other that they know and will execute their assignments so players don't feel the need to have one eye on a part of the field they aren't technically assigned to.

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17 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Part of the reason why consistency & chemistry are so important and why building and developing players around each other is usually the better way to go as far as units on a whole.  No problem adding a piece or two through free agency, but ideally you want a unit on either side of the football to not only be good individual players, but to also have trust in each other that they know and will execute their assignments so players don't feel the need to have one eye on a part of the field they aren't technically assigned to.

 

I'm guessing that the Skins felt drafting 3 players from Bama's defensive front helps speed that process along lol..

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24 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I'm guessing that the Skins felt drafting 3 players from Bama's defensive front helps speed that process along lol..

4 lol

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, JaxJoe said:

 

I like Swearinger’s recent comments about Payne vs Vea regarding Payne as the more athletic and that skill fits the NFL better. Coupled with Nick Saban’s recent comments saying Payne is more versatile at a 310-320 pound weight than when he was 340 as a sophmore makes me believe the Skins coaches buy into this as well. 

 

 

Saban's point came with a warning about the weight that came off to me like monitor this guy's weight because he can get too heavy and then he's not the same player.  At this weight, he's perfect. It seems like that warning goes double with Settle who has had issues with his weight and multiple people who covered Virginia Tech talked about this.  So it sounds like our team dietician needs to monitor these guys.

 

I was more of a Vea over Payne guy myself.   He to me just seemed to manhandle double teams and swallow the A gap in a way that struck me more like Snacks Harrison than how Payne looked to me -- and also brought more pass rush, too.  But with a guy with Vea's size, he can lose it quick if he gets any bigger.  

 

I guess that's the peril about the NT position just in general.  It's good to be big -- but you don't want to get over the top big.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)

As for the Alabama guys in camp -- and who knows what that means if anything when beat guys talk about it.

 

Impressive = Allen and Payne

Hear good things = Hamilton

Questionable = Anderson

 

Going away from the Alabama guys -- obviously a lot of hype for Guice.  Quinn supposedly looked good.  I noticed Tandler/Finlay beating up on Apke saying he looks lost.

 

I've become a bit of a cynic on Anderson after re-watching some games recently but not to the degree where I am throwing in the towel.   JP Finlay goes on 980 today, Anderson showed nothing last year.   I know what he meant after focusing on him in some games.  Hopefully last season was an aberration, I know he came into the season banged up so maybe he wasn't fully ready. 

 

I recall Jay mentioning before 2017 training camp that Ryan needed to get in better shape.  I didn't love hearing that it reminded me of Zorn saying the same about Devin Thomas after they drafted him.  I just figured its your first job, if you aren't going to care to be in shape then than when are you?  But supposedly Ryan is in good shape this year.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, JaxJoe said:

Big thanks to @Skinsinparadise and @thesubmittedone for your research behind each of your posts. I know it takes a ton of time. 

 

Yeah, TC is going to be really fun to watch to see how they use Payne. It looks like they are already penciling him as a 3-down lineman. Obviously he’ll be a NT in 3-4 base for at least downs 1&2 but it looks like they have him in there as a DT in nickel. 

 

I like Swearinger’s recent comments about Payne vs Vea regarding Payne as the more athletic and that skill fits the NFL better. Coupled with Nick Saban’s recent comments saying Payne is more versatile at a 310-320 pound weight than when he was 340 as a sophmore makes me believe the Skins coaches buy into this as well. So Payne, I believe. was drafted to be a 3-down lineman and that is the goal. 

 

They’ll be rotating other personnel in and out during TC to find the best group but I think Allen and Payne will have the lion’s share of snaps come the regular season. Ionnidis and McGee will be situational ends. I think Lanier and Settle are depth guys. Maybe Hood gets cut but I too see him as depth. 

 

It’s gonna be real fun watching these guys develop over the next couple of months. 

 

 

Unless he beasts out at pass rushing in TC I don't see Payne replacing Ioannidis on obvious passing 3rd downs as a 3 tech DT in nickle 4 front formations soon. Ioannidis looked great last year rushing the passer before he got hurt.

Edited by mistertim
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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've become a bit of a cynic on Anderson after re-watching some games recently but not to the degree where I am throwing in the towel.   JP Finlay goes on 980 today, Anderson showed nothing last year.   I know what he meant after focusing on him in some games.  Hopefully last season was an aberration, I know he came into the season banged up so maybe he wasn't fully ready. 

 

I recall Jay mentioning before 2017 training camp that Ryan needed to get in better shape.  I didn't love hearing that it reminded me of Zorn saying the same about Devin Thomas after they drafted him.  I just figured its your first job, if you aren't going to care to be in shape then than when are you?  But supposedly Ryan is in good shape this year.

 

The ugly issue for us this season that could rear it's head is Edge depth.  Anderson is likely meh.  McPhee, if healthy is legit, but his knee might not be the same and could get reinjured anyways.  We had Galette spelling Smith/Kerrigan last season, which worked out well.

 

If Anderson is who we thought he was, then we could be in trouble.

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Unless he beasts out at pass rushing in TC I don't see Payne replacing Ioannidis on obvious passing 3rd downs as a 3 tech DT in nickle 4 front formations soon. Ioannidis looked great last year rushing the passer before he got hurt.

 

I don't think Tomsula would use the word "replace".  But he'll get some snaps, I'm sure of it.  Remember when we were healthy and still trying to figure out who all on our D-Line could do what last season, remember how much of a rotation we used?  I think through 4 games or something, our top 5 DL were all within the 40-60% snaps played.

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10 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I don't think Tomsula would use the word "replace".  But he'll get some snaps, I'm sure of it.  Remember when we were healthy and still trying to figure out who all on our D-Line could do what last season, remember how much of a rotation we used?  I think through 4 games or something, our top 5 DL were all within the 40-60% snaps played.

 

That's a good point. We did do a good amount of rotation, so Payne probably will at least see snaps there.

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Posted (edited)

My main (and really only) worry about Payne is that I saw him get displaced way too often against double-teams and chip blocks to feel comfortable having him man the NT spot.  He's a nightmare if you just single block him, but the second even a chip block comes by, he's moved off his spot, and does nothing.  I worry about his lateral strength/power. 

 

Re-watching a lot of his games, it just seems like he's not strong enough to hold his ground vs double teams like you would want from your NT, and when he wins, his whole game is based off exploding out of his stance and controlling 1 man, and being able to stack/shed to either side. He can definitely 2 gap, but really can't do it at the NT spot against doubles, because of how he's pretty consistently moved off of the ball, or walled out of the play by the G and C.

 

Don't get me wrong, he's definitely a beast against a single blocker, and I think his pass rushing is better than most give him credit for, but I really worry about Philly and Dallas having their way with him due to their athletic O-linemen who can consistently chip him before climbing to the 2nd level.

Edited by HTTRDynasty

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On 6/2/2018 at 1:17 PM, NickyJ said:

It was our first game of the season in 2010. I don't think Alex Barron ever did live it down. Wikipedia says he never saw the field again for the Cowboys lol

 

Except for 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2013. He got injured in 12 and 14, and hasn't been injured since. But yeah, he got season ending injuries in 2 years of his career. What a bust.

 

The was literally out long term for 2 of the last 3 years of his last contract with the Skins.  Are you shocked they moved on?  No hate, just easier to move on from a guy who was off-injured.

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Man, if Payne is as good as people are saying having Payne, Iiondissdahseasihdasd*, and Allen as our core  young DL will be awesome. Love his comment to Brown, such swagger and recognition.

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How is Settle doing so far?  Not many updates in his thread.

 

Still hoping we see a front three of Settle, Payne and Allen sometime this year.

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