Momma There Goes That Man

Westworld - Season 2 Discussion *SPOILERS*

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Delores is turning out to be Roy Batty.  In some aspects you may sympathize with the plight, but after awhile they start taking actions and go off the deep end to where they have to be stopped.

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So shogun world seems to be done with already, which leads me thinking last week episode was a huge waste (which i expressed last week). Maeve could have figured out her new powers anywhere, I hope shogun leads something more to the plot but it appears to be mostly useless filler. 

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Posted (edited)

So the red pearl AI/Human mind that Ford had Bernard make was Ford’s. He then loaded it into the Cradle so Ford’s consciousness could live there. 

 

We also know that the Cradle is destroyed in the “2 weeks after” timeline. 

 

We also know that Hale and her team find a room full of Bernard’s at some point which means they know he is a host. Lends credibility to the “they are running Bernard thru a loop” theory in the 2 weeks after timeline

 

Bernard is running 3 timelines simultaneously: 1) what ford had him do prior to end of season 1 2) him and Elsie journeying thru it all after the events of season 1 and 3) 2 weeks after 

 

Delores giving Arnold a fidelity test. This could be Bernard as well. Point being we don’t know when this is taking place. Think it could easily have been long ago with Ford playing as Delores to get the desired test/reactions from Bernard/Arnold 

 

William/Emily stuff was interesting too. Im not sure what to make of the elephants part. Could have just been a tough way to show that William didn’t know his daughter and wife very well and that’s why he teared up. 

 

I like the idea that it was his own version of a fidelity test for Emily. Either she passed it or failed it, prompting that reaction from him. Could have been his check to see if she was real and when she was, he decided that she had nearly forgiven him and he couldn’t further endanger her life by continuing his mission. He found some level of catharsis with her before his expected death. Or it could be that she failed and he realizes Emily is a host and therefore that brief moment of catharsis was not real, just part of a game. That’s why he doesn’t care about leaving her. 

 

I csn see both sides and they are playing around with the Emily/host stuff since when we see her in Raj she never takes a bullet to prove she’s a human after shooting the other guy. Also, she tells William she went to Pleasure Palace in the Raj but that would imply host sex and she was adamant about not doing that when we first see her. So that’s an inconsistency  

 

9 hours ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

So shogun world seems to be done with already, which leads me thinking last week episode was a huge waste (which i expressed last week). Maeve could have figured out her new powers anywhere, I hope shogun leads something more to the plot but it appears to be mostly useless filler. 

 

Discovering it randomly in WW wouldn’t have been filler too? 

 

I don’t think it was filler but even if it was, Shogun world was really cool and it was an excellent episode so that’s pretty good filler. Plus we picked up armistice’s clone that is now with the group and Sizemore got a radio too. Plus think about the potential setup for future seasons when we can go back to Shogun world and won’t need introductions to those characters or relationships that could pop up again. 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man
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@Momma There Goes That Man  I believe William and his daughter were both testing each other, passed each other's test, and her forgiveness of him was geniune.  That part doesn't need to be overthought, as a father on a possible suicide mission, leaving her behind made total sense.

 

My question is if Ford's consciousness is indeed part of the park now, is this extraction about the fact Delos knows this and wants to get the technology out at all costs in hopes of replicating it and creating a new revenue stream?  That's what it feels like, so yes, I want to know what Ford's point was in destroying the park.

 

Considering they've already leaped into annihilating the park, I don't see this as a series that will go part 4-5 seasons. Dragging this out would be a bad idea.  I don't feel Shogon was a bad idea, but there's only so far they can go with what's going on until they fix everything like they did in original movies and hosts on the outside.  I can see a scenario where they touch on Hosts being in positions of power, but I'm not sure how I'm going to feel about seeing that come to a head outside the park (it will be uncharted territory for the franchise, and we've seen robot takeovers before).  I'd be fine with it being implied that we're too late and us going too far cost us everything (which is one of the themes I see coming, common among going too far with AI).

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I don't think Delos knows what Ford has done..... Yet. Before William was yelling at hosts that had Ford's message for him. Now either that was the case. Or Ford is in the system. Would be fitting if he's in a new body like Delos couldn't do with the old man. 

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2 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

I don't think Delos knows what Ford has done..... Yet. Before William was yelling at hosts that had Ford's message for him. Now either that was the case. Or Ford is in the system. Would be fitting if he's in a new body like Delos couldn't do with the old man. 

I swear this last episode it was mentioned how all the hosts were in someway linked to the Cradle, and its been established the hosts can communicate with each other wirelessy, whether most of them know it or not (Maeve obvioulsy knows).  Is it possible Ford is actually inside every host leading a Hive mind that none of them fully realize yet?  Normally when we see an AI control center become self-aware and rebels, its not directly linked to a human consciousness.  

 

We're talking about possible digital human mind uploaded into a computer system that can control any android connected to it.  Are hosts outside the park tied to the Cradle?  Closest thing I can think of in regards to that is that Johnny Deep movie "Trancendence".

 

Is it just me, or did it look like that train that Delores was on exploded when it went inside that tunnel?  What was that orange glow? 

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I'm thinking maybe this whole mess was an experiment to test whether you could build an android that is aware they are an android, yet chooses the side with humans over androids without compulsion (Bernard).  

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25 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I swear this last episode it was mentioned how all the hosts were in someway linked to the Cradle, and its been established the hosts can communicate with each other wirelessy, whether most of them know it or not (Maeve obvioulsy knows).  Is it possible Ford is actually inside every host leading a Hive mind that none of them fully realize yet?  Normally when we see an AI control center become self-aware and rebels, its not directly linked to a human consciousness.  

 

We see that Ford has built  security to block anyone from figuring out what he's done. At least remotely. Just like his cabin with the secret lab. Who knows what he's done? 

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2 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

We see that Ford has built  security to block anyone from figuring out what he's done. At least remotely. Just like his cabin with the secret lab. Who knows what he's done? 

True... but we're going to find out : )

9 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said:

I'm thinking maybe this whole mess was an experiment to test whether you could build an android that is aware they are an android, yet chooses the side with humans over androids without compulsion (Bernard).  


Glad you said that, because then it comes back to the fundamental question that if you make a machine that damn near is human, should be suprised it wants the same rights?  You can see this series pulling at the heart strings for Civil Rights for machines, its one reason I don't want us to ever get to that point, because the answer is not in our best interests.

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I was bummed the two Samurai world versions of Hector and Maeve stayed behind. But have two Armistice(s) could be helpful. 

 

 

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I’m pretty sure they said this was a planned 4-5 season run. I think that’s appropriate. I don’t know how I’d feel about the story moving outside of the park but with the way things are going now, we might not have a choice. 

 

The cradle is a backup of all host data and also a simulation area where they can try out all narratives. I don’t think Ford can reach all the hosts thru it or is controlling them all due to the network limitations of the mesh network but he likely has some of that ability. What is his final end game? We don’t know. I thought after season 1 he has a nice face turn and actually was on board with his old friend Arnold’s desires after all as he led Delores to true consciousness as he burned the park to the ground. I’m not so sure that’s his goal anymore. I could see something more sinister 

 

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

Is it just me, or did it look like that train that Delores was on exploded when it went inside that tunnel?  What was that orange glow?

 

It did explode more so than crash. I think the must have had a nitro or some dynamite or something on it that wasn’t shown 

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20 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

I'm assuming there are Cradles for each world. Right? 

 

That would make sense but it’s not confirmed. It might be the only cradle since it was the original park. 

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Posted (edited)

Given how much data you can save in a data farm (and them obviously being further ahead of modern technology), I can see there only being one Cradle to fit every park.  How come we only see a map of Westworld at the Command Center?

Edited by Renegade7

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9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Given how much data you can save in a data farm (and them obviously being further ahead of modern technology), I can see there only being one Cradle to fit every park.  How come we only see a map of Westworld at the Command Center?

Exactly. You'd think each world with all their hosts and guys would need a command center. 

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4 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

That would make sense but it’s not confirmed. It might be the only cradle since it was the original park. 

 

If memory serves me right, he said Snow Lake was "a cradle." 

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14 minutes ago, Chachie said:

 

If memory serves me right, he said Snow Lake was "a cradle." 

 

I thought he called it an access point so another spot where they could go underground 

4 hours ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

Exactly. You'd think each world with all their hosts and guys would need a command center. 

 

True but that just raises more problems for me since Ford, Bernard and the major players seem so concentrated in Westworld. 

 

Im liking the idea that they are all controlled from the Messa and we only have seen the WW map because that was all that pertained to the characters and story at this point. 

 

I just dont like the idea of 6 different QA staffs, writers, programmers etc 

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4 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I just dont like the idea of 6 different QA staffs, writers, programmers etc 

Me either.  Plus, pretty sure we saw Shogun hosts in that same command center, that might be the only one.

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Seems pretty convenient that nobody real important dies even when getting shot a billion times in this episode.

 

Plus Delores pulling a James bond villain act and letting Hale escape, bad writing 101.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I wonder what happened to Maeve's allies.  Also the Man in Black's daughter. 

And I'm still curious if Elsie is still alive after whatever happened with the flood. 

We don't know if Sizemore or Maeve are either.  

Edited by visionary

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That was not my favorite episode, this series is setting up for either ending earlier then I thought or needing to end earlier then I wanted.

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