Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

Thanks for posting that Art, and good to see you and your common sense in the murky ES waters. 

 

My hope is that Smith is more cerebral and coachable than Cousins. As well that Jay will adjust and filter his system to Alex's strengths. I truly am excited to see Jay with a different QB, I do have my beefs with Jays clock mgt. and game timing. I wanna know if that was all on him or the inflexibility of the signal caller. 

I think Smith will add ideas to Jay's offense based on his experience and confidence. I have a strong suspicion that the Smith/Gruden combo is gonna be a very good one. 

[SWFLSkins]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

I think Smith will add ideas to Jay's offense based on his experience and confidence. I have a strong suspicion that the Smith/Gruden combo is gonna be a very good one. 

 

When Gruden made those comments about Kirk unwilling to throw down the field the contested passes in practice, that he wanted in games, it said a lot. 

[ixcuincle]

Smith has done everything the right way so far, but it's early. Winning over the fanbase after a messy divorce. 

[kingdaddy]

21 hours ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

When Gruden made those comments about Kirk unwilling to throw down the field the contested passes in practice, that he wanted in games, it said a lot. 

I agree, I couldn't believe what I was reading when I read that article, especially cause it came out in the middle of the season. I don't see Smith being afraid to make throws...from what I deduce by the things I've read and comments I've seen, Smith is going to bring more confidence at the QB position than KC did and I think Gruden will be thrilled. Let's get a stud RB in the draft and see what happens.

[Taylor 36]

21 hours ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

When Gruden made those comments about Kirk unwilling to throw down the field the contested passes in practice, that he wanted in games, it said a lot. 

So, we replaced him with Captain Checkdown?  That should go over swimmingly! 

[XxSpearheadxX]

1 minute ago, Taylor 36 said:

So, we replaced him with Captain Checkdown?  That should go over swimmingly! 

Smith led the league in downfield passing in the 2017 season. He was 1st in yards and 1st in accuracy. 

[Taylor 36]

Just now, XxSpearheadxX said:

Smith led the league in downfield passing in the 2017 season. He was 1st in yards and 1st in accuracy. 

One season doesn't erase the previous eleven (I won't hold 2008 against him since he was out the entire season).  He's had just as good, if not better talent around him pretty much his entire career than Cousins has had, yet Cousins passed for over 4000 yards every year he has been the starter.  Smith has only done that once.  Not trying to turn this into a AS/KC debate, but if Jay had an issue with KC taking deep shots last year, especially with the lack of weapons KC had to target deep (and all the drops when he did go deep), then Jay may be in need of some good meds this season.  Alex earned the name Captain Checkdown in SF for a reason, and then re-earned it in KC.  Again, for a reason.  I'm not saying he's a bad QB, but his overall career play shows that he is not a gunslinger or a deep threat QB.

[KDawg]

17 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

One season doesn't erase the previous eleven (I won't hold 2008 against him since he was out the entire season).  He's had just as good, if not better talent around him pretty much his entire career than Cousins has had, yet Cousins passed for over 4000 yards every year he has been the starter.

 

This narrative is false. I’ll give you Smith having more talent in the 2017 season, but not in seasons prior.

 

Do people realize just how good Jackson/Garçon/Reed/Davis/Crowder actually were as a group? 

 

He had DJax/Garçon/Reed for his first two seasons as a starter. And also keep in mind that Gruden’s offense is basically designed for the QB to throw for 4000 every season. 

 

Im not saying that in support of Kirk or or Smith. Just saying that the surrounding cast being weak for Kirk is not a good argument unless you’re talking entire teams. If you include D and ST I’d agree. If you’re just talking offensive talent I absolutely do not.

[SWFLSkins]

48 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

So, we replaced him with Captain Checkdown?  That should go over swimmingly! 

 

45 minutes ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

Smith led the league in downfield passing in the 2017 season. He was 1st in yards and 1st in accuracy. 

 

29 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

One season doesn't erase the previous eleven (I won't hold 2008 against him since he was out the entire season).  He's had just as good, if not better talent around him pretty much his entire career than Cousins has had, yet Cousins passed for over 4000 yards every year he has been the starter.  Smith has only done that once.  Not trying to turn this into a AS/KC debate, but if Jay had an issue with KC taking deep shots last year, especially with the lack of weapons KC had to target deep (and all the drops when he did go deep), then Jay may be in need of some good meds this season.  Alex earned the name Captain Checkdown in SF for a reason, and then re-earned it in KC.  Again, for a reason.  I'm not saying he's a bad QB, but his overall career play shows that he is not a gunslinger or a deep threat QB.

 

Two things, Taylor, Did you bother to read the post and the articles addressing that? and Secondly the Ringmaster of Checkdown Circus is Andy Reid. 

 

That said, Jays comments were pretty telling and had nothing to do with Alex Smith, I am beyond curious now to see Jay with a different signal caller. And remember I authored the Gruden Buy or Sell threads, and was highly critical of Jay until really midway through last year, not that injuries are an excuse. It is however impossible to fully gauge Jay based on Kirk's refusal to practice what Jay wanted to implement.

 

Jay gets guys open, Let's see if Alex has the nerve to shoot his shot per the Coach and his desires.

 

Last year Smith did it, what makes you believe Jay can't build off of that? 

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

I agree, I couldn't believe what I was reading when I read that article, especially cause it came out in the middle of the season. I don't see Smith being afraid to make throws...from what I deduce by the things I've read and comments I've seen, Smith is going to bring more confidence at the QB position than KC did and I think Gruden will be thrilled. Let's get a stud RB in the draft and see what happens.

 

It totally flipped my Sell position. As much grief as I was giving him for clock mgt. and in game adjustments, I went to Hold then to Buy by the end of the season. I remain in Buy mode until I see how the first half of next season goes. Afterall if the QB wasn't running the O the way the HC wanted, that is insubordination on any other job and ripe for termination. Which is why Jay was OK with moving on and not investing a fortune. 

[Taylor 36]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

This narrative is false. I’ll give you Smith having more talent in the 2017 season, but not in seasons prior.

 

Do people realize just how good Jackson/Garçon/Reed/Davis/Crowder actually were as a group? 

 

He had DJax/Garçon/Reed for his first two seasons as a starter. And also keep in mind that Gruden’s offense is basically designed for the QB to throw for 4000 every season. 

 

Im not saying that in support of Kirk or or Smith. Just saying that the surrounding cast being weak for Kirk is not a good argument unless you’re talking entire teams. If you include D and ST I’d agree. If you’re just talking offensive talent I absolutely do not.

That narrative would be true if he had all of those weapons each game or even the vast majority of the games.  Health was always a concern for Jackson and Reed.  Jackson started 24 of 33 games (including playoffs) in 2015 and 2016 combined, but also left 6 of them early due to injury. Reed has started 22 of a possible 48 games in the three seasons Cousins was a starter and left 5 of those early due to injuries.  Davis has done well for the most part the last couple of years, but let's not pretend that he or Crowder have been consistent world beaters.  Garcon was the one, true reliable weapon we had.  I wish we would have tried to keep him, but, go figure, Bruce didn't even contact him.  On top of all of that, KC has never had a real running game to support him.  Smith has had some great running games in both SF and KC.  Smith has definitely had more consistent support in his career.

[Taylor 36]

10 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

That said, Jays comments were pretty telling and had nothing to do with Alex Smith, I am beyond curious now to see Jay with a different signal caller. And remember I authored the Gruden Buy or Sell threads, and was highly critical of Jay until really midway through last year, not that injuries are an excuse. It is however impossible to fully gauge Jay based on Kirk's refusal to practice what Jay wanted to implement.

 

Jay gets guys open, Let's see if Alex has the nerve to shoot his shot per the Coach and his desires.

 

Not sure where you got the idea that I said his comments were about Alex Smith.  However, Alex Smith is now the QB running Jay's offense, and his game play style has never been confused with that of a deep threat QB.  If Jay was not happy with KC throwing deep enough last season, then it is hard to see that he will be satisfied with Alex considering his career play.  I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.  Alex had a great running game and receiving options to support him last season to help him for his one and only 4000 yard season.  As of now, he won't have any of that here.  It is unlikely he will duplicate his career high season when he wasn't able to do it the previous 12 seasons with better supporting casts than what he currently has here.  Of course, maybe we could hit gold in the draft and finally get our running game going.  Maybe 50/50 can improve to 80/20.  Maybe Reed can stay healthy for entire season.  Those would definitely help Alex with a downfield attack.  But, those are a lot of maybes.  And, call me negative, but I don't trust our FO to get the right people to make this team work the way it should.

[SkinsNoles21]

Skins and its fan base about to finally see how a true franchise QB operates. 

[SWFLSkins]

6 hours ago, Taylor 36 said:

Not sure where you got the idea that I said his comments were about Alex Smith.  However, Alex Smith is now the QB running Jay's offense, and his game play style has never been confused with that of a deep threat QB.  If Jay was not happy with KC throwing deep enough last season, then it is hard to see that he will be satisfied with Alex considering his career play.  I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.  Alex had a great running game and receiving options to support him last season to help him for his one and only 4000 yard season.  As of now, he won't have any of that here.  It is unlikely he will duplicate his career high season when he wasn't able to do it the previous 12 seasons with better supporting casts than what he currently has here.  Of course, maybe we could hit gold in the draft and finally get our running game going.  Maybe 50/50 can improve to 80/20.  Maybe Reed can stay healthy for entire season.  Those would definitely help Alex with a downfield attack.  But, those are a lot of maybes.  And, call me negative, but I don't trust our FO to get the right people to make this team work the way it should.

 

First, never said the comments were about Smith, just that Jay now has a different QB. Let's wait to pass judgement on what Alex Smith can and can't do with Jay, not off of what his career has been so far excluding last year. 

 

And Yes Virginia, nobody just about believes this FO can pull it off. But I want to see the tires hit the road before I call AAA/ 

[Skinsinparadise]

 I don't begrudge one whit what went down that preceded him on Alex Smith.  I got an odd view about the whole thing.  I hate the trade.  But I dig Alex Smith.

 

Alex is a really classy dude, super nice guy. When he was benched for Kaepernick -- he didn't say a peep, no complaints.  When the Chiefs drafted Mahomes instead of complaining about it, he mentored him.

 

 I've heard he's a good leader.  He's though a very chill, understated guy.  Kelce said he keeps everyone calm because of how cool he is.  His playoff record which isn't great is misleading because his stats are good in them.

 

It should be an interesting showcase for Jay.  One of Alex's strengths seems to be his ball handling and selling subterfuge via pre-snap motion.  Jay is IMO a really good play designer who knows how to get receivers open.  And calls a really good game IMO.  But the pre-snap motion-subterfuge isn't a heavy element of his offense.    Should be fun to see how that all comes together.

 

I've been watching interviews of Alex and reading things for weeks.  He's a character in his own way.  He listens to NPR all the time including to games.  He seems to like Indie style music like Arcade Fire..  His sister worked for Michelle Obama.   His mom is a social worker and got him into his charity work for foster kids.   His wife is a former Oakland Raiders cheerleader.

 

I get the vibe he's VERY California as to his personality.  Kelce was interviewed about him (he loves him) and he really laid it on thick in a complementary way that Alex is very California personality wise.  

 

For those interested here's an entertaining article about Alex being a TV connoisseur

 

https://www.theringer.com/2016/9/27/16077012/kansas-city-chiefs-alex-smith-tv-books-ddff5c6ecb28

 

Streaming With Mr. Smith

Kansas City quarterback Alex Smith is working to win a Super Bowl — and to get all of his teammates to binge-watch his favorite TV shows and read his favorite books.

 

Most quarterbacks worry about teaching the rest of the offense how to approach film study or third-down protections. Kansas City’s Alex Smith is no exception, but he also gives his teammates much more important advice. Earlier this year, for example, he walked into the quarterbacks’ meeting room and provided some crucial instruction:

“‘Guys, you’ve gotta watch Black Sails,’” former K.C. backup quarterback Aaron Murray remembered Smith saying. Smith is widely regarded as one of the smartest players in the NFL, and those brains show up off the field as well, with teammates viewing Smith as something of a cultural curator who recommends books and bingeable TV. His grasp of prestige television in particular is the stuff of legend in the locker room. Smith has the Chiefs at 2–1 entering a key Sunday night matchup against fellow AFC playoff hopeful Pittsburgh, but to K.C. players, he’s not just the man who’s thrown 145 NFL touchdowns: He’s a 6-foot-4 Netflix suggestions carousel.

 

 

[Taylor 36]

38 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

First, never said the comments were about Smith, just that Jay now has a different QB. Let's wait to pass judgement on what Alex Smith can and can't do with Jay, not off of what his career has been so far excluding last year. 

 

And Yes Virginia, nobody just about believes this FO can pull it off. But I want to see the tires hit the road before I call AAA/ 

You said, "Jays comments were pretty telling and had nothing to do with Alex Smith," implying that my comment suggested that they were.  That's why I felt the need to point out that my post never said his comments were. 

 

As far as waiting on passing judgement on Alex Smith, that is a bit hypocritical, isn't it?  You were among many that passed judgement on Cousins after three years, but it's okay to forget about 12 years of tape on Alex and act like he hasn't shown us who he is?  Really?  Fact is that every player, especially a veteran with over a decade of experience, is judged by their past play, and his past play overwhelming says that last year was an outlier; the exception, not the norm.  So, Jay's comments on Kirk don't mesh with the signing of Alex and the idea that he wants a bomber for a QB.  Could be that Jay was left in the dark by Bruce in this deal as has been suggested recently.  But a constant downfield threat is not who Alex Smith has been except for one outlier year, one year out of 13.  Will Alex succeed here?  I sure as hell hope so.  But, again, if Jay wasn't happy with Kirk's hesitation to go deep, I  see him being even more upset with Alex.

 

And, yes, Florida, if nobody believes this FO can pull it off, then no one should feel comfortable with this team, period.  Make sure your AAA dues are up to date and have their number on speed dial!

[SWFLSkins]

1 minute ago, Taylor 36 said:

You said, "Jays comments were pretty telling and had nothing to do with Alex Smith," implying that my comment suggested that they were.  That's why I felt the need to point out that my post never said his comments were. 

 

As far as waiting on passing judgement on Alex Smith, that is a bit hypocritical, isn't it?  You were among many that passed judgement on Cousins after three years, but it's okay to forget about 12 years of tape on Alex and act like he hasn't shown us who he is?  Really?  Fact is that every player, especially a veteran with over a decade of experience, is judged by their past play, and his past play overwhelming says that last year was an outlier; the exception, not the norm.  So, Jay's comments on Kirk don't mesh with the signing of Alex and the idea that he wants a bomber for a QB.  Could be that Jay was left in the dark by Bruce in this deal as has been suggested recently.  But a constant downfield threat is not who Alex Smith has been except for one outlier year, one year out of 13.  Will Alex succeed here?  I sure as hell hope so.  But, again, if Jay wasn't happy with Kirk's hesitation to go deep, I don't see him being even more upset with Alex.

 

And, yes, Florida, if nobody believes this FO can pull it off, then no one should feel comfortable with this team, period.  Make sure your AAA dues are up to date and have their number on speed dial!

 

oh my. some men you can't reach. 

[Taylor 36]

Just now, SWFLSkins said:

 

oh my. some men you can't reach. 

Yes, you have definitely shown that!

[HardcoreZorn]

Sure last year was an outlier but an NFL season is still a large enough sample size to know he CAN do it. Have a hard time believing he fluked his way into being the best deep passer in the NFL over the course of an entire season. Might be a sign of things to come?

 

And Gruden was not left in the dark on this. I'm pretty certain that Gruden is behind a lot of what has transpired personnel wise. 

[SWFLSkins]

1 minute ago, Taylor 36 said:

Yes, you have definitely shown that!

 

If just a negative projection of how this turns out, why waste your energy man. You ain't getting what I am saying. Read some of my posts and get the points laid out. 

 

- I want to see Jay with a different signal caller, I don't know how that turns out, I am not predicting success nor failure. I have questioned Jays calls and game mgt. ad nausea. I want to see if a QB other than Kirk can do some audibles and pick apart D's, even if that is nickel and diming to first downs. 

 

- Jay comments were in relation to Kirk and practicing what he wanted to implement in games. Let's see what Alex can do. 

 

- Alex Smith was playing for Andy friggin Reid and he accomplished what he did last year. Yes different roster, but guess what? Andy Friggin Reid, the king of using passing to sub for running, which in turns makes your running game pretty good. Kirk did not make adjustments or take chances, will Smith, Well HELL IF I KNOW, until I see him under center in B&G. 

 

/end

[Taylor 36]

2 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

If just a negative projection of how this turns out, why waste your energy man. You ain't getting what I am saying. Read some of my posts and get the points laid out. 

 

- I want to see Jay with a different signal caller, I don't know how that turns out, I am not predicting success nor failure. I have questioned Jays calls and game mgt. ad nausea. I want to see if a QB other than Kirk can do some audibles and pick apart D's, even if that is nickel and diming to first downs. 

 

- Jay comments were in relation to Kirk and practicing what he wanted to implement in games. Let's see what Alex can do. 

 

- Alex Smith was playing for Andy friggin Reid and he accomplished what he did last year. Yes different roster, but guess what? Andy Friggin Reid, the king of using passing to sub for running, which in turns makes your running game pretty good. Kirk did not make adjustments or take chances, will Smith, Well HELL IF I KNOW, until I see him under center in B&G. 

 

/end

I get what you are saying.  For me, though, I can't get up for this, and therefore am saving my energy.  I have to prepare myself for the worst, because, unfortunately, I have allowed this owner and this FO to dupe me too many times.  We definitely will have to wait and see how this plays out, but with our history, I can't help but be skeptical.  The icing on the cake is what I've been trying to point out this whole time, the deep game comments by Jay don't add up with Alex.  Hopefully, Jay can get everything he wants out of Alex.  Hopefully, Alex can get everything he needs out of the offensive personnel.  But hope is running dry with this FO.

[SWFLSkins]

Just now, Taylor 36 said:

I get what you are saying.  For me, though, I can't get up for this, and therefore am saving my energy.  I have to prepare myself for the worst, because, unfortunately, I have allowed this owner and this FO to dupe me too many times.  We definitely will have to wait and see how this plays out, but with our history, I can't help but be skeptical.  The icing on the cake is what I've been trying to point out this whole time, the deep game comments by Jay don't add up with Alex.  Hopefully, Jay can get everything he wants out of Alex.  Hopefully, Alex can get everything he needs out of the offensive personnel.  But hope is running dry with this FO.

Disappointment is realized when unrealistic expectations are your barometer.

[Taylor 36]

1 minute ago, SWFLSkins said:

Disappointment is realized when unrealistic expectations are your barometer.

I'm not sure how expecting the FO, who make millions of dollars collectively to make football decisions on a professional level, to put together a competent football team that are not stagnate in mediocrity for a decade, more than two if we want to look at the past several FO's, is unrealistic.  Maybe it's time that you raise your expectations of what your team should be doing and accomplishing.  

 

 

[SWFLSkins]

8 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

I'm not sure how expecting the FO, who make millions of dollars collectively to make football decisions on a professional level, to put together a competent football team that are not stagnate in mediocrity for a decade, more than two if we want to look at the past several FO's, is unrealistic.  Maybe it's time that you raise your expectations of what your team should be doing and accomplishing.  

 

 

 

 

You mean change teams, I can't. I just can't.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I see some of Doug’s rhetoric leaking through to ES with Jays system = 4K passing yards.  

 

Dalton did that once in 3 seasons.  Nobody did it for the Skins in 2014.  Kirk did it in all 3 seasons as a starter, less than 100 from 5k in 2016.

 

There is no doubt that Jays system is meant to rack up the passing yards, but Kirk is the reason folks think 4K is a given.

 

Alex could certainly continue the trend, but it’s not a given.  Honestly, I’d prefer them to draft an elite RB and place more emphasis on running  the ball, rendering 4K passing not a requirement for success.

[SWFLSkins]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I see some of Doug’s rhetoric leaking through to ES with Jays system = 4K passing yards.  

 

Dalton did that once in 3 seasons.  Nobody did it for the Skins in 2014.  Kirk did it in all 3 seasons as a starter, less than 100 from 5k in 2016.

 

There is no doubt that Jays system is meant to rack up the passing yards, but Kirk is the reason folks think 4K is a given.

 

Alex could certainly continue the trend, but it’s not a given.  Honestly, I’d prefer them to draft an elite RB and place more emphasis on running  the ball, rendering 4K passing not a requirement for success.