SBNation:Kendall Fuller film review: How could the Redskins trade this guy?

[skinny21]

They finally found a slot corner and they ship him out the next year.  Good thing 3rd downs haven’t been a problem for us.  

 

 

Blows my mind really.  Quite honestly, he’s the very last player I’d choose to trade away were I GMing this clown show.  

[RonArtest15]

Honestly, I don't care about Alex Smith.  He's not as good as Kirk, but I don't think there will be a significant drop off in QB play.  What I'm upset about is giving up Fuller.  ESPECIALLY on the heels of not wanting Breeland back.  Fuller rated as the top nickel CB in the league last year.  Skins got fleeced.  Ridiculous. 

[ToaCommander]

Calling Fuller an elite CB is a stretch in the least. Yes I'm disappointed we gave up a very good nickelback CB who is also the future of our secondary but we also have other young CBs like Fabian Moreau and J Hosley who showed promise. This trade settles our QB situation for the next 2-4 years at least instead of the QB franchise tag drama we had in the past 3 years and looked like we were gonna have in the next 3 months. Now we can sign our FAs, look for reinforcements in FA and get go BPA in the draft without the QB drama hanging over the team.

 

Yes Allen plays a role in this mess but we needed to find a solution now and get out of it and move on. Sadly its not with Cousins under center but that the NFL business. Keep building the team and fix your (Allen) mess if you made one.

[Bacon]

Whether we're in good shape at CB or not, and I have my doubts, the deal was objectively a fleecing and not at all team friendly considering the value we just lost. 

 

If we sign a corner in FA for some unholy figure, I may throw my Skins merch out the window. 

[skinny21]

I’m amused by the attempt to diminish Fuller.  

 

I have high hopes for Moreau and Holsey, but at the moment we have no idea if they can be average starters, let alone elite.  

 

As soon as the FO seemed to make up their mind that they had to have Smith at all costs, they lost the negotiation... and that really shows through when they added in a guy that was arguably the best player on the field for us last year... on either side of the ball.  

 

The two guys on this team that I wouldn’t even begin to entertain trading away were Fuller and Ioannidas.  Their age/contracts and talent make their value higher than everyone else, IMO.  

 

After that would be Williams and Allen.  

[srtman04]

This is champ ****ing Bailey all over again.  Except this time, we didn't even get a good player in  return.  This has to be the dumbest and most idiotic FO ever in the history of sports.  I would venture to say they are borderline insane.  They are doing the same things over again and are expecting different results.  I have had enough of this crap.  Dan Snyder will destroy the Redskins for good if he continues to be the owner.  

[JSSkinz]

 

It getting ridiculous around here, Fuller is good but we've made him into an All Pro and he's not even a pro bowler.

 

Last year he was great, his rookie year he got used badly and this forum used to crush him for it.

 

You're not an elite CB until you line up against elite WR's on a weekly basis and prove yourself, 1 good season playing against slot receivers doesn't make you a 1st rounder or an elite CB.

 

 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

People are actually calling the 3rd best CB on our team elite and valuing a slot guy over a proven starting QB, huh? Sounds legit. Same people calling for Colt to start I guess.

[Wyvern]

Just joking around here a bit,---  maybe it's because  Bruce figured Denver was eventually going to pick up Cousins. So he essentially throws in Fuller into the mix of this boneheaded trade, and helps bolster Kansas City's D with one of Washingtons best young defenders.

 

That way, Cousins now has to face the Chiefs D (w/Fuller helping) two times a year -- and so maybe Kirk's stats won't look as good, as they could have been against the Chiefs without Fuller and a 3rd round pick.

 

That way, Allen can point any poor performance by Cousins vs. the Chiefs and claim he was right to never sign Cousins. And in his twisted mind, he can claim he 'won'!

 

In the meanwhile maybe we Skins fans are in store for interesting future developments  typical of Bruce's other tactics ---for example, "un-named Redskins sources" leaking to the media how Kendall Fuller and ...'Kurt' Cousins used to show up to team meetings, still intoxicated!!

 

Again, just kidding, ...I hope?

[Warhead36]

7 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

People are actually calling the 3rd best CB on our team elite and valuing a slot guy over a proven starting QB, huh? Sounds legit. Same people calling for Colt to start I guess.

Personally I thought Fuller was our best CB last year. Breeland is inconsistent and Norman is aging now and injury prone. He's also dirt cheap and still under contract for two more years. And noone is saying Fuller is elite now, but he has that kind of upside. That's the problem with this FO. They never look at the future or big picture, and that mindset has plagued many fans.

 

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Personally I thought Fuller was our best CB last year. Breeland is inconsistent and Norman is aging now and injury prone. He's also dirt cheap and still under contract for two more years. And noone is saying Fuller is elite now, but he has that kind of upside. That's the problem with this FO. They never look at the future or big picture, and that mindset has plagued many fans.

 

DJ did. Fans are. He might eventually be, sure, but he isnt. A good QB is more important than a might be great CB.

[JSSkinz]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Norman is aging now and injury prone.

That's a harsh label for a guy who has missed 2 games in 2 seasons.

 

 

 

[normal_gymnasium]

19 hours ago, skinny21 said:

As soon as the FO seemed to make up their mind that they had to have Smith at all costs, they lost the negotiation... and that really shows through when they added in a guy that was arguably the best player on the field for us last year... on either side of the ball.  

 

 

 

In light of the news that the Broncos offered a 2nd rounder and Aqib Talib for Alex Smith makes me wonder of this trade was really all that bad. Only reason Andy Reid didn't take that trade was because (unlike the McNabb deal) he didn't want to see Smith twice a year in the AFC West.

 

• Conclusion: both John Elway and Reid really respect Alex Smith – a lot.
• The Skins will get an extra 3rd rounder in 2019 as a compensatory pick, balancing out that draft pick loss.
• So in essence, the Redskins traded Kendall Fuller for Alex Smith. 

 

I'm a Kirk Cousins supporter, but even so, I'm having a difficult time seeing how they 'lost' in this trade. They certainly didn't get fleeced like Mike Jones claims. Perhaps there's a tendency for fans and beat writers alike to throw our hands up in disgust at every move this FO makes, because their track record is admittedly not great. But I think this trade is a case where – after screwing up by not signing Kirk after 2015 – they made a pretty good deal. 

 

_______________

 

PS - The Browns offered multiple picks for Alex. 

PPS - What if the Skins work out some kind of trade-and-sign deal with the Broncos (or whomever)? Doesn't this trade start to look downright rosy then?

[Redskinscub]

19 hours ago, srtman04 said:

This is champ ****ing Bailey all over again.  Except this time, we didn't even get a good player in  return.  This has to be the dumbest and most idiotic FO ever in the history of sports.  I would venture to say they are borderline insane.  They are doing the same things over again and are expecting different results.  I have had enough of this crap.  Dan Snyder will destroy the Redskins for good if he continues to be the owner.  

Losing Champ hurt, but he wanted out. 

 

Losing Fuller is worse, local product, saw him play at Va Tech, an absolute success story for the Skins, one draft pick they got right. I agree it stings, especially figuring the deal could have been made without him. 

[SWFLSkins]

On 1/31/2018 at 8:04 PM, skinny21 said:

They finally found a slot corner and they ship him out the next year.  Good thing 3rd downs haven’t been a problem for us.  

 

 

Blows my mind really.  Quite honestly, he’s the very last player I’d choose to trade away were I GMing this clown show.  

 

A slot corner over Allen, Kerrigan, Brown, Norman? Really. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

15 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

A slot corner over Allen, Kerrigan, Brown, Norman? Really. 

I can't speak for the poster but Fuller is cheap for two seasons and ascending.

 

Kerrigan and Norman aren't cheap or really young.  Brown won't be cheap.  Allen, probably falls in the same line as Fuller, but we didn't get to see much of him.

[SWFLSkins]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I can't speak for the poster but Fuller is cheap for two seasons and ascending.

 

Kerrigan and Norman aren't cheap or really young.  Brown won't be cheap.  Allen, probably falls in the same line as Fuller, but we didn't get to see much of him.

Allen was a difference make that made them all look better. Look I love DB's like no other spot, but to value a slot corner over the above listed is wrong. And money really has nothing to do with it, this is value on the field and what a player does for the unit. 

[skinny21]

30 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

A slot corner over Allen, Kerrigan, Brown, Norman? Really. 

A slot corner that can play outside, that is far younger than Kerrigan, Norman and Brown, that is getting paid well under a million dollars for two more years, that we drafted.  And one that doesn’t have a major long term health concern like Allen.  

 

As more of an aside, he also has a good pedigree and his brothers think he is the most talented Fuller. 

 

So yes.  Not even a tough decision IMO.  

 

Now don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t put Allen on the trade block either.  Kerrigan could be replaced by Murphy and Galette, and Brown, while I love what he brought to the team last year, is looking to get overpaid for a guy that has a pretty glaring weakness to his game.  Norman is a stud I’d hate to lose, but his contract and the youth we have/had made him more expendable.  

 

To be fair, trading those guys means we eat their bonus money, which would definitely suck.  

 

 

Edit:  money has a lot to do with it - as a GM, you prioritize youth, talent and financials.  

[Playaction2Sanders]

Casserly. Defending us.

 

 

[skinny21]

@normal_gymnasium

 

Oh I definitely think there is a lot of respect for Alex Smith.  The trade isn’t bad because we got Smith, it’s bad because we lost Fuller (and a pick).  

 

Browns have a ton of draft picks, a ton of cap space and just want to see improvement to build their team around... and they’ve lacked decent qbing for ages.  They also have a new FO that wants to be sure they make some strides.  A good qb also let’s them analyze the roster better and makes them more competitive for FAs, and it allows them to draft and groom a qb.  

 

Some of the above applies to us (most doesn’t really), but it’s a lot of good reasons for the Browns to go after Smith.  

 

Broncos are in a very different spot.  They already have a very competitive team but are lacking a decent qb.  Smith could absolutely turn their fortunes around.  So Smith made a lot of sense for those two teams, more sense than he makes for ours.  

 

The Broncos offered Talib because they needed/wanted his contract off the books.  Speaking of Talib, I’d much rather have Fuller, who can play both inside and out, is younger and far, far cheaper.  So Fuller has much better value than Talib.  

 

Which takes us back to Fuller.  I would seriously consider that he’s worth a 1st rounder (not a top 10 probably, but still). He’s a 1st round talent getting paid as a 3rd rounder.  He just had an elite season and is still very young.  So again, Fuller’s value is a 1st rounder, IMO.  So, in essence we traded a 1st and 3rd for Smith.  It’s possibly a bit worse than even that though, because first rounders bust sometimes, whereas Fuller has proven himself.  

 

Some will argue (or have argued) that Fuller only had one good year, so it’s too small a sample size.  Thing is, the way he played screens, read routes, his footwork and intelligence... those aren’t things that will go away.  Maybe he won’t consistently be the best slot corner in the league, but I have absolutely no doubt that he will be ranked up there consistently.  Maybe it’s too soon to call him elite, but I have no doubt he’ll get there, just a matter of time. 

 

Now, if he gets moved outside, maybe he won’t reach that elite tier, but I’m confident he’d make a damn good boundary corner.  Might take him a year or two to adjust fully, but he has the combo of smarts and technique it takes.  

 

I’m one that tends to look at the bright side of things.  This trade was sort of the final straw - it just took away that optimism, that hope that this FO could do the right thing.  I defended the FO because I liked the drafts, mostly liked the way we approached FA and extended our own.  Didn’t know how much of that had to do with Allen, but I thought that as long as he remained fiscally responsible and didn’t trade picks, he might at least (continue to?) listen to his scouts and we could improve as a team because of it.  The RGIII trade was the worst thing the franchise has done since I’ve been a fan, but this is in that same vein of organizational failure for me.  Thing is, that trade was a swing for the fences, so in some ways, this bid to tread water is even worse.  

[dyst]

Have we ever won a trade under this management? Probably not, and if we have, it's been so rare that we forget. The team has no concept of how to run an organization. How do you give up a starter (Fuller was a starter IMO), and a 3rd round draft pick. I get it, Fuller only had one good year but for a team that needs to have good young talent, we shipped him out.

 

I'm not as annoyed with the 3rd round pick we gave up, because more than likely if we kept that pick, we would have screwed it up (like draft a Perine type), which makes the Fuller trade even worse, because he was a pick we actually did okay on. On the record, I'm happy with Alex Smith. But we gave up a lot for him. Granted, maybe Alex Smith leads us to the playoffs and makes us a legitimate team, and this will be moot but from the outside looking in, we got the short end of the stick.

 

It makes sense though, we are a bad team, with awful management. It's like a person with bad credit. You have to increase your down payment if you want that house. We are the person with bad credit, except we never get out of bad credit so we're always putting more down.

[Warhead36]

18 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

That's a harsh label for a guy who has missed 2 games in 2 seasons.

 

 

 

He was clearly playing through injury last year. Good on him for being tough but it affected his play big time.

[JSSkinz]

Someone here mentioned that you dont spend big money on CB's until you have a good D line, I think thats crazy and in fact you do the opposite.

 

If you have a very good D line why would you need high priced CB's.

 

Look at Philly, everyone talked about their weakness being the secondary before the year started and it is their weakness but it didnt matter, they dont have any studs and they rank middle of the pack when it comes to secondarys but it didnt matter.

 

A great D line is like a great QB, they mask deficiencies.

 

 

[SkinSabbath]

This article claims to be a 'tape review' but it actually just quotes two tweeted videos of KF making good coverage on predictable routes, plus a statistical review of some interpretive sabermetric stat. The INT he made was a ridiculously poor throw that should've never been thrown. In fact, if that throw was placedover the top of the WR shoulder, it's a catch and loose into the secondary over the top. 

 

I'm not trying to diminish Fuller, but we must remember that traded our nickel corner for a pro-bowl QB who was in legitimate MVP conversation through week 8. How can y'all be seriously so upset about this? I'm certain Jay Gruden support his new QB and can do a lot with him. Don't act like Bruce is going solo with these kind of moves. 

 

Kirk was never going to sign. When I have an employee who is disengaged from the company, I let them go. We deserve players who want to be here. I'll miss Kendall Fuller, but we did what was necessary to move forward. Watch us sign a FA corner AND nose tackle with the money we saved from Kirk's megadeal in the making... HHTR

[normal_gymnasium]

8 hours ago, skinny21 said:

The trade isn’t bad because we got Smith, it’s bad because we lost Fuller (and a pick)

 

Skinny, thanks for the thoughtful reply. You made a good case. I agreed with some of what you said but here's why I disagree with the assessment in as a whole.

 

All of a sudden people are acting like the Redskins are giving up on the best defensive back prospect in the league and I just don't see it. I like him, and was upset, just not "the doctors tell me they'll have to remove my entire colon" type of upset when I heard he was part of this trade.

 

Yes, I know how he was graded by both the team and Pro Football Focus. I've read the same articles ad nauseam. 

 

There's no doubt in my mind that Fuller is a very good player. But with him, the Redskins still had a bad defense. They couldn't make a stop all year when they really had to. Injuries across the front 7 (and holy **** were there injuries) played a huge part in that. Fuller made a lot of nice plays throughout the year, so I'll give credit where credit is due.

 

But I don't understand why so many people are losing their minds over his departure. Swearinger I could understand, because he played alongside Fuller, went into battle with him. The fans, on the other hand, are acting like Kendall Fuller was the best thing to happen to the Redskins defense since they traded for Wilbur Marshall.

 

It's as if the FO jettisoned the lynchpin that held a world class defense together – for a song. The truth is, the past transgressions of the front office are causing a lot of bias, clouding people's judgement. It was a good trade, a necessary trade, for reasonable terms. 

 

It comes down to this: You either trade Fuller, or someone else gets Smith. Then you're left holding your junk in your hand when the music stops. Colt McCoy is your quarterback. 

 

The defense will not fall off the face of the earth because Kendall Fuller is gone.