2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

[markmills67]

5 minutes ago, elkabong82 said:

 

Yep and it's why FO needs to talk with him to figure out his plans. I like to think Norman's comments before were simply frustartion on the season. But if he does opt out then we'd definitely want to re-sign Breeland of course. 

Would Norman count anything on 2018 cap if he walks?. 

 

HTTR 

[CTskin]

People talking about getting TWO (Allen Iverson "practice" voice) starting caliber WRs?? Here's some quick math- we have $47M to spend. Let's assume the best case scenario in which we re-sign Kirk on a LTD for $27/yr. That leaves us with $20M to spend. And that $20M is before we re-sign any of our own (Brown, Foster, Murph, etc.)...

 

Take a step back and look at the going rate for quality ILBs and WRs, then tell me where the money will be for TWO WRs...

 

To add a higher dose of reality, re-do the math given the scenario that Kirk is tagged for $34M... Anyone projecting a spending spree is either misinformed or believes Kirk will be gone.

[Skinsinparadise]

Crowell in that mix, one of my potential interests in FA.  Decent YPA, good hands.

 

[Acworth skins fan]

1 hour ago, CTskin said:

People talking about getting TWO (Allen Iverson "practice" voice) starting caliber WRs?? Here's some quick math- we have $47M to spend. Let's assume the best case scenario in which we re-sign Kirk on a LTD for $27/yr. That leaves us with $20M to spend. And that $20M is before we re-sign any of our own (Brown, Foster, Murph, etc.)...

 

Take a step back and look at the going rate for quality ILBs and WRs, then tell me where the money will be for TWO WRs...

 

To add a higher dose of reality, re-do the math given the scenario that Kirk is tagged for $34M... Anyone projecting a spending spree is either misinformed or believes Kirk will be gone.

I’m seeing 54 million. I believe we need to subtract 6 for rookies. I definitely see your point. 

[Bonez3]

Man, Dion Lewis may be one of the most underrated players in the NFL. He gets lost in the NE success by committee. Dude is a cheap man's LeVeon Bell. He'd be a stud on so many other teams.

 

Why haven't we locked up Zach Brown yet?

[RemoveSnyder]

 

 

 

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

The first question I would have at WR would be can we afford / do we want Sammy Watkins. He has the size we seem to want right now. He's young. But his catch percentage is comparable to Josh Doctson. I'd think we want somebody who's a little more consistent than that. But he's playing in an offense similar to ours. 

 

Other guys I'd consider -

Taylor Garbirel - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GabrTa00.htm, catch % hovering around 70 the last two years. Small though. 

Albert Wilson - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsAl02.htm, catch % hovering around 60 the last two years. Another small guy. 

Marquise Lee - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LeexMa00.htm, catch % hovering around 60 and 6 feet. He's got about 700 yards this year as well. 

Davante Adams - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AdamDa01.htm, similar catch percentage around 60, 6'2, got 800 yards on the year. 

 

For those last two guys, I'd wonder how much of that is YAC vs deep balls. I think if we keep Kirk we're going to look for more of the Crowder type WRs and less of the Jackson/Harris/Doctson who like to play the deep ball game. I have my doubts about us landing the names I mention above because they simply are young and will probably have high demand based on potential. If I'm reading Bruce and how he values money correctly, I doubt he'll want to enter a spending war over potential. 

[DC9]

16 hours ago, CTskin said:

People talking about getting TWO (Allen Iverson "practice" voice) starting caliber WRs?? Here's some quick math- we have $47M to spend. Let's assume the best case scenario in which we re-sign Kirk on a LTD for $27/yr. That leaves us with $20M to spend. And that $20M is before we re-sign any of our own (Brown, Foster, Murph, etc.)...

 

Take a step back and look at the going rate for quality ILBs and WRs, then tell me where the money will be for TWO WRs...

 

To add a higher dose of reality, re-do the math given the scenario that Kirk is tagged for $34M... Anyone projecting a spending spree is either misinformed or believes Kirk will be gone.

 

I think we can get two NFL caliber WRs, but they're going to be cats in their 30s at the end of their career.  But they'll know how to run routes and find space, which is a massive upgrade.

[JSSkinz]

15 hours ago, Bonez3 said:

Why haven't we locked up Zach Brown yet?

 

 

Because we have just under $3M in cap space and there's no way he signs a long-term deal unless he gets a chunk of cash immediately, its gonna take more than $2M.

[Paul Cumberland]

@KDawg @bobandweave @Rufus T Firefly @elkabong82

 

I was able to get a reply from both Tandler and Keim on the question of Norman having an escape clause he can activate himself after the season (opting out).  Apparently the answer is NO...

 

 

[KDawg]

So assume theyre correct. Doesn’t change my stance.

 

Acting discontent, large cap hit, a need for cap space, and many holes on the roster. If Bree can be had for a reasonable number that is less than Norman, I’d say we move on from Norman.

 

The CB position is weakened, but still one of our top units. Gives us room to help the lesser units. We don’t have as much cap space as many would like to believe.

 

The catch, though, is Bree. If he wants a massive deal than you move on from him.

[Est.1974]

Too much dead cap on Normans deal in 2018 to cut him adrift. It won't be a popular move, but now that his 2 years fully gtd are out of the way I think we are more likely to restructure his deal, add another year on, convert some salary to bonus, and create 5 to 6 mil in 2018 cap space that way. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, Paul Cumberland said:

@KDawg @bobandweave @Rufus T Firefly @elkabong82

 

I was able to get a reply from both Tandler and Keim on the question of Norman having an escape clause he can activate himself after the season (opting out).  Apparently the answer is NO...

Yeah, it didn't make any sense, either in terms of how the rest of the contract was structured or in terms of none of the major sports news sites or contract specific sites reporting on it, but instead it being a couple of random bloggers knowing about that clause. The most likely explanation seemed obviously to be a mistake on their part.

 

But thanks for doing the legwork.  It's nice to have posters actually adding information for us here.

54 minutes ago, KDawg said:

So assume theyre correct. Doesn’t change my stance.

 

Acting discontent, large cap hit, a need for cap space, and many holes on the roster. If Bree can be had for a reasonable number that is less than Norman, I’d say we move on from Norman.

 

The CB position is weakened, but still one of our top units. Gives us room to help the lesser units. We don’t have as much cap space as many would like to believe.

 

The catch, though, is Bree. If he wants a massive deal than you move on from him.

Again, it depends on what you mean by "massive deal" because Breeland isn't going to come cheap by any definition of that word that most of us hold. You can pooh-pooh that list I posted earlier, but they are his comps. I'm not sure he isn't better than most, if not all, of them.

 

If we move Norman, it saves us 38 mil over the next three years. The savings from that to what Breeland is likely going to get is not nothing, but it's fairly minor.

 

The only way I'm considering moving on from Norman is if we can get a good trade for him.

[Est.1974]

Norwell is going to hit the big time for a guy who went undrafted 3 years ago.

[Voice_of_Reason]

20 hours ago, elkabong82 said:

Recent ones: Patriots, Broncos, Patriots, Seahawks, Ravens. Past 5 years winners. Each had top defenses. Patriots have had good role players on their offense but not really any elite talent on offense outside of the QB and TE. Broncos rode that defense, even with Peyton at the helm. Seahawks had Lynch. Ravens also top defense, ok QB that was on a hot streak, good run game. 

When looking at past SB teams, I take the Patriots out of the conversation because nobody can replicate what they have.  They have the GOAT QB, possibly the GOAT HC coach and defensive mind and system stability.  They can do things with people that nobody else can do.  Cousins might be good, he's not Brady.  Gruden isn't remotely BB.  

 

The Broncos and Seahawks didn't have top 10 defenses.  They had #1 defenses.  And you could argue historically great defenses.  The 'Skins aren't getting to that level of defense next year.  I completely agree, if you have that level of defense, you almost don't need an offense.  But we're not suggesting the 'Skins next year can get to that level.

 

I personally just don't think that the collection of talent we have at skill positions is even remotely good enough to win a championship with a top 10 defense.  With a top 2 defense?  Sure.  But if you're going to compete against the Patriots, Pittsburgh, Rams, Eagles, Vikings and Jags this year, they all have top 10 defenses and better play makers than we do.  

 

If we just grab a few defensive pieces, stay healthy, and roll out the similar group of skill position players, we will end up 9-7 or 10-6 and maybe go 1-1 in the playoffs.  That's best case.  

 

If that's good enough (and, hell, maybe that is good enough given the history), then fine.  If you want to win it all, either you need a top 2 defense, or you need more firepower on offense.

 

 

3 hours ago, DC9 said:

 

I think we can get two NFL caliber WRs, but they're going to be cats in their 30s at the end of their career.  But they'll know how to run routes and find space, which is a massive upgrade.

I'd be fine with 2 vets in the 28 year old range on 3 year deals, cheaper contracts while Doctson develops, and maybe we draft another guy with physical ability to develop as well.  

 

Can't count on Doctson.  Reed is always hurt.  Crowder can only play the slot.  Grant is a $4 or #5. 

 

You need 2 to make noise.  

[Est.1974]

17 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'd be fine with 2 vets in the 28 year old range on 3 year deals, cheaper contracts.

 

I don't think that kind of market exists now for anyone who is half decent. I reckon it's 8/10mil per year in the first go around of FA for good wideouts.

[oraphus]

If we determine that 2017 was an anomaly for the injury bug i dont think Skins are that far off from having a solid O(top 10) again in 2018, assuming cousins stays.

Healthy Oline

healthy Thompson, 2nd year perine, FA or drafted RB

Doctson/ crowder/ FA WR + draft

Reed/ VD/ Sprinkle 

Above is a top 10 Offence. Anything more than above will be a bonus

 

We need to spend $$ on a more consistent D and again if brown and Sweringer stay we are not that far off. a few additions on Dline, safety, LB and again if they can maintain health - top 15D

[DC9]

32 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'd be fine with 2 vets in the 28 year old range on 3 year deals, cheaper contracts while Doctson develops, and maybe we draft another guy with physical ability to develop as well.  

 

Can't count on Doctson.  Reed is always hurt.  Crowder can only play the slot.  Grant is a $4 or #5. 

 

You need 2 to make noise.  

 

Honestly haven't had any desire to watch games outside of us this year with very few exceptions so I'm not sure who is available or injured, etc.

 

I did see that Decker and Amendola are both free this period.  Not sure where either are health wise, but their vets and would be an upgrade if they could suit up.

[Unbias]

This is a tough thread to figure out because it largely weighs on if Kirk is back. The ~$47M in cap space sounds great, but if Kirk is here $25-30M of that is gone. Adding in ~$5M for the rookie pool there really isn't much money left to fill quite a few holes that are being left from potential departures. 

 

From a crude cap side it might come down to Cousins vs. Norman. If that's the case, then we can probably get 5 years of productive football from Cousins. With Norman turning 31 next year we have to wonder if he'll still be worth his cap hit over the next 3 years. 

[OVCChairman]

20 hours ago, Bonez3 said:

Man, Dion Lewis may be one of the most underrated players in the NFL. He gets lost in the NE success by committee. Dude is a cheap man's LeVeon Bell. He'd be a stud on so many other teams.

 

Why haven't we locked up Zach Brown yet?

Signing bonuses are applied to current year salary cap, and given the injuries, and un-foreseen signings we've got very little cushion on this years books to go towards any respectable signing bonus.  I'd imagine we will see something happen very quickly at the beginning of the league year if they have a plan in place, since the bonus will then apply to the 2018 league year.  

 

 

At least this is what I understood. 

[elkabong82]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If that's good enough (and, hell, maybe that is good enough given the history), then fine.  If you want to win it all, either you need a top 2 defense, or you need more firepower on offense.

 

 

Defense wins championships and that is the side of the ball that needs improvement. They got better this year with pressures, INTs, and 3rd down, but points allowed still bad. Lots of offense but no defense we've already seen with this team and it didn't work. Have to have defense.

[Bonez3]

1 hour ago, Unbias said:

 

From a crude cap side it might come down to Cousins vs. Norman. If that's the case, then we can probably get 5 years of productive football from Cousins. With Norman turning 31 next year we have to wonder if he'll still be worth his cap hit over the next 3 years.

I think Norman is prime fro a restructure. As long as KC agrees to 25 mil a year and Norman restructures, we still could land Brown and and quality WR. 

[Est.1974]

11 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

I think Norman is prime fro a restructure.

 

I agree. That's a classic FO move around the corner.

[Unbias]

33 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

I think Norman is prime fro a restructure. As long as KC agrees to 25 mil a year and Norman restructures, we still could land Brown and and quality WR. 

 

I agree, but Norman's comments irk me a bit. Personally I'm blowing it off as a very competitive player that frustrated with the way the season went. 

[skinny21]

I’m hopeful we can get Brown in the 6-8mil range.  Consecutive pro bowls and leading the league in tackles might push him higher.  I posted awhile back about the top ILB salaries... can’t remember any details, but it’s closer to 10 I believe.  

 

The more I think about it, the more I think re-signing Bergstrom over Long is the better move, since I assume Long will want starter money... and I’m hopeful he isn’t a starter next year.  

 

I would like Foster back, but man, we’re going to be hurting for cap space if Cousins and Brown re-sign, especially if we want to add a starting caliber receiver or guard.  Might have to suck it up and roll with Spaight/Vigil and whatever the draft brings.  

 

I’m thinking we put off Galette and Murphy till post draft.  Might lose them both, but that money is gonna go quick.  

 

I hate the idea of paying Grant decent money given his ceiling and our cap situation, but we’ve made our bed (and he brings a lot of value with his positional versatility). 

 

I’m hoping we can wait on Nsheke until after the draft.  

 

Part of me expects we roll with the receivers we have (maybe bring Quick to camp) and hope to add 1 (or 2) in the draft.  Far from ideal, but we will be up against the cap in a hurry just with re-signs... not to mention guys hitting FA next year.