The Sisko

General Mass Shooting Thread (originally Las Vegas Strip)

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2 minutes ago, Destino said:

It's impossible to disentangle gun crime from gun laws.  The two are related.  The weapon used, how it was obtained, and related laws are going to end up being a major part of this story.  I will ask however that comments of that kind be tied to this event specifically, at least in the short term.  This thread is not a place to discuss general gun violence. 

Seems reasonable.  Thanks.

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10 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I would ask that we keep this thread about Vegas.  If you want to talk about gun laws or the lack thereof, we have another thread for that.

Part of the reason nothing gets done is that we treat these incidents all too often as discreet, independent incidents rather than symptoms of a disease.

 

It's well past time to talk about the disease.

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2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

 

It's well past time to talk about the disease.

 

The disease is paranoia that conservative media, backed by the NRA, stirs every time a mass shootings happens. 

 

Somehow the response becomes increased proliferation of guns and ammunition. 

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Just now, No Excuses said:

 

The disease is paranoia that conservative media, backed by the NRA, stirs every time a mass shootings happens. 

 

Somehow the response becomes increased proliferation of guns and ammunition. 

Even that paranoia, is but a symptom. Now, I think it's important to treat symptoms especially when you have no cure for the disease, but the paranoia is but one arm of this beast. 

 

I agree it's a very important one.

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What the ****?!

 

What an awful event.  Not much of a praying man, but my prayers go out to the victim's families.  

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Part of the reason nothing gets done is that we treat these incidents all too often as discreet, independent incidents rather than symptoms of a disease.

 

It's well past time to talk about the disease.

That's all well and good, but we should understand what actually took place here before deciding what it means and where it belongs in the greater political discussion.  Right now we know very little other than what happened and where.  We know nothing of motive, weapon used, or even how that weapons was obtained. 

 

So for now, this thread, is to be limited to comments surrounding this particular incident.

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It’s interesting that the authorities are already ruling this act to not be terrorism. I feel like I’m sensing a pattern here.....

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I have to wonder at the level of cynicism that's involved in the discussions at NRA headquarters right about now.  

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18 minutes ago, Destino said:

 

suitcase?  I've never been searched going into a hotel in vegas. 

 

Seems weird you can carry that kind of arsenal into a casino, where they take their security as seriously as anyone.  But I guess short of metal detectors, it's kinda difficult.

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4 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

The disease is paranoia that conservative media, backed by the NRA, stirs every time a mass shootings happens. 

 

Somehow the response becomes increased proliferation of guns and ammunition. 

Is that happening now?  If not, please post here

 

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1 minute ago, Gamebreaker said:

It’s interesting that the authorities are already ruling this act to not be terrorism. I feel like I’m sensing a pattern here.....

I just saw the Sheriff say they werent saying one way or another until more investigation was done.  Did someone else rule it out?

Just now, justice98 said:

 

Seems weird you can carry that kind of arsenal into a casino, where they take their security as seriously as anyone.  But I guess short of metal detectors, it's kinda difficult.

From the places I have been, the security in the hotel part and casino part are vastly different.

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2 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

It’s interesting that the authorities are already ruling this act to not be terrorism. I feel like I’m sensing a pattern here.....

I'm not sure it's possible for a white male to be a terrorist (from a certain point of view). 

 

On a less snarky note, I suppose it depends what the motive behind the shooting is. The result is terror or a terrorist's, but was there a manifesto or agenda? To be a terrorist act you probably need to be killing for a cause of some sort... no matter how demented.

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3 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

It’s interesting that the authorities are already ruling this act to not be terrorism. I feel like I’m sensing a pattern here.....

 

Legally, I dont believe it's treated the same as foreign terrorism.  

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1 minute ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I just saw the Sheriff say they werent saying one way or another until more investigation was done.  Did someone else rule it out?

 

The first report I saw said they were not considering it terrorism, but also included a lot of the code words like “lone wolf” that let me know the shooter was white. If that source was just a biased PoS and the local authorities are still considering the possibility this is a terrorist act than I will be happy some progress is being made in unlearning some of the stereotypes we’ve been taught for so long. 

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26 minutes ago, DM72 said:

How do you smuggle that much ammunition into the Mandalay Bay?

I typically buy my 5.56 ammo in 1000 round sleeves. They're about the size of a man's forearm. 2 or 3000 rounds would easily fit into a small carry-on type suitcase or duffel bag. It would probably make the latter a little on the heavy side, but not likely enough to be very noticeable.

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What is going to be telling is if this man had any mental illness, or was suspected of it by co-workers and friends, and when he purchased the weapons if they were legal guns with illegal mods. I remember that law being relaxed or taken away all together early this year. 

 

I do find it crazy that I walked into work this morning and my office is completely apathetic to it all. One employee even said to me that in the grand scheme of things this isn't even really a big deal anymore. 50 lives at least. That's how far it has gotten. 

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3 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I'm not sure it's possible for a white male to be a terrorist (from a certain point of view). 

 

On a less snarky note, I suppose it depends what the motive behind the shooting is. The result is terror or a terrorist's, but was there a manifesto or agenda? To be a terrorist act you probably need to be killing for a cause of some sort... no matter how demented.

 

Which point of view maintains it’s impossible for a white male to be a terrorist? 

3 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

Legally, I dont believe it's treated the same as foreign terrorism.  

 

Why? 

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4 minutes ago, Destino said:

Is that happening now?  If not, please post here

 

 

 

You'll see it in the coming days. 

 

Totally predictable cycle in the wake of every US mass shooting tragedy.

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Woke up to this terrible news...certainly thoughts and prayers to families and friends impacted by the heinous actions.

 

I blame O.J. since people will want to place blame...

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5 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I just saw the Sheriff say they werent saying one way or another until more investigation was done.  Did someone else rule it out?

 

I heard on CNN this morning (about 40 minutes ago) that is was NOT an act of terror. But they dont even know this dudes motivations yet so no way that could be 100% yet, right? 

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Just now, Gamebreaker said:

 

Which point of view maintains it’s impossible for a white male to be a terrorist? 

 

Why? 

Breitbart's or FOX's.

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2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

when he purchased the weapons if they were legal guns with illegal mods. I remember that law being relaxed or taken away all together early this year. 

 

 

What law are you referring to?  Im not aware of what you are thinking of.

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3 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

The first report I saw said they were not considering it terrorism, but also included a lot of the code words like “lone wolf” that let me know the shooter was white. If that source was just a biased PoS and the local authorities are still considering the possibility this is a terrorist act than I will be happy some progress is being made in unlearning some of the stereotypes we’ve been taught for so long. 

 

Poor communication on the part of law enforcement.  What they seem to mean when they say that is "no evidence of a political motivation or tying this person to a terrorist group."  That's useful information. 

 

Lone wolf isn't really code for white, it's most often linked to ISIS terrorism attacks.  They encourage precisely that kind of attack. 

 

If you're looking for code words used to separate the actions of one man (and it's almost always a man) from any other significant group those words are "mental illness."  In other words, he's just crazy and not one of us. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Breitbart's or FOX's.

You don't think they'd consider James Hodgkinson a terrorist? 

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Just now, Gamebreaker said:

 

Which point of view maintains it’s impossible for a white male to be a terrorist? 

 

Why? 

 

That's a very good question. No real good reason for it, in my estimation. There's no actual crime for domestic terrorism.  So you notice how often they try to find the hate crime angle when a domestic terror incident happens.  They need to find some ancillary charge to really bring down the hammer.

 

But labeling it as domestic terror allows some special investigative powers.  Goes back to the Patriot Act, I believe.  They just cant get charged with "domestic terror".   

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4 minutes ago, Destino said:

 

You don't think they'd consider James Hodgkinson a terrorist? 

Just skimmed the first page of a google search using James Hodgkinson as a Keyword prompt. I didn't see him called a terrorist in a single title or lead tease.

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