Riggo'sRangers

Common Kirk....I just don't know....

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1 minute ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Will say the gap between Cousins and Stafford is way smaller than you think. Stafford adds a win to this team. That's about it 


He also has an elite arm, which could help Kirk with all those throws off his back foot that he likes to throw. 

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Just now, PapaLazarou said:


He also has an elite arm, which could help Kirk with all those throws off his back foot that he likes to throw. 

Yep. 

 

For someone with an average arm, he loves trying to gun throws in with no lower body at all 

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1 minute ago, PapaLazarou said:


He also has an elite arm, which could help Kirk with all those throws off his back foot that he likes to throw. 

 

considering he was overthrowing everyone today by a mile i wish his arm had been softer today lol

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And that's probably why it's easier to sell yourself on Stafford. At the very least, the tools are noticeable. Same with Wentz. 

 

I dont think Wentz is all that great outside of being a big dude lol. But you can talk yourself into him based on his attributes. Kirk doesn't have those 

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I bet if we played some of the press conferences from Kirks first year we'd likely hear a lot of " I haven't seen the film, but I've got to make better throws" or " I misread the coverage, but I will learn from this."  I admit that I was a lot more forgiving then than I am now 4 years later. Either he is not as cerebral as I gave him credit for, or Gruden stinks at developing his Qbs. I'm inclined to believe that 80% of this problem lies with Kirk. Regardless of coaching, he could have taught himself by now. He's an OK QB, but now I'm starting to think that we deserve better than paying him what he's actually worth. I want a good QB, and would be OK with paying that guy market value. I don't want a bargain, I want a winner.

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1 hour ago, PapaLazarou said:


He also has an elite arm, which could help Kirk with all those throws off his back foot that he likes to throw. 

The difference is Stafford is able to shake off slow starts like the INT pick 6 today an move past them. I think Kirk let's in-game mistakes get in his head. He's not great at stabilizing an offense that's come off the rails. 

44 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

I bet if we played some of the press conferences from Kirks first year we'd likely hear a lot of " I haven't seen the film, but I've got to make better throws" or " I misread the coverage, but I will learn from this."  I admit that I was a lot more forgiving then than I am now 4 years later. Either he is not as cerebral as I gave him credit for, or Gruden stinks at developing his Qbs. I'm inclined to believe that 80% of this problem lies with Kirk. Regardless of coaching, he could have taught himself by now. He's an OK QB, but now I'm starting to think that we deserve better than paying him what he's actually worth. I want a good QB, and would be OK with paying that guy market value. I don't want a bargain, I want a winner.

 

That's not really fair to blame Gruden since he wasnn't there the first couple of years of Cousins.

 

And also, he is an ok QB. He was drafted in the 4th round so he wasn't predicted to be much more than that. He's exceeded that but I never anticipated his skill level to rival those of the elite.

44 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

I bet if we played some of the press conferences from Kirks first year we'd likely hear a lot of " I haven't seen the film, but I've got to make better throws" or " I misread the coverage, but I will learn from this."  I admit that I was a lot more forgiving then than I am now 4 years later. Either he is not as cerebral as I gave him credit for, or Gruden stinks at developing his Qbs. I'm inclined to believe that 80% of this problem lies with Kirk. Regardless of coaching, he could have taught himself by now. He's an OK QB, but now I'm starting to think that we deserve better than paying him what he's actually worth. I want a good QB, and would be OK with paying that guy market value. I don't want a bargain, I want a winner.

 

That's not really fair to blame Gruden since he wasnn't there the first couple of years of Cousins.

 

And also, he is an ok QB. He was drafted in the 4th round so he wasn't predicted to be much more than that. He's exceeded that but I never anticipated his skill level to rival those of the elite.

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Answered the question of is he a franchise guy... NEVER

 

The Skins won this game of chicken. If they pay him any more than 15 mil a year (which he will get 22+ on the market next year) they're nuts. He is an average QB with a knack for turning the ball over. I would never give him a multi year deal. 

 

See ya Curt,start scouting FA's and the draft Skins fans

Edited by Bonez3

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I told myself I would not go on this roller coaster with Kirk this year. Kirk always seem to get off to slow starts and eventually pick it up. I'm expecting a similar pattern. 

 

Having said that, I never thought the teams offer was insulting. I thought it was a good starting point based on how these contracts were traditionally handled. I didn't believe we should buck the trend for Kirk then, and I still feel that way today. Let's just hope he gives us a reason to buck the trend this upcoming off season. 

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Aslong as Spencer Long and Shawn Lauvao are in there Kirk is going to look like "Kurt." In case you don't know this EVERY QB under duress struggles. Just ask Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Eli Manning, etc. 

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8 minutes ago, KingGibbs said:

Aslong as Spencer Long and Shawn Lauvao are in there Kirk is going to look like "Kurt." In case you don't know this EVERY QB under duress struggles. Just ask Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Eli Manning, etc. 

 

Thought he made the line better? Is the inverse not also true? I'm 100% possivitve I saw him run into pressure and not step up more than a few times. Don't think you can put this all on the line.

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15 minutes ago, KingGibbs said:

Aslong as Spencer Long and Shawn Lauvao are in there Kirk is going to look like "Kurt." In case you don't know this EVERY QB under duress struggles. Just ask Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Eli Manning, etc. 

 

Difference is those guys win superbowls under duress...our guy throws picks. 

 

He's an average QB who needs well above average talent around him to be good. The 49ers will pay him $30+ next year. We will most likely be picking in the top 12 so hopefully we can get one of these QBs coming out.

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1 hour ago, Bonez3 said:

 

The Skins won this game of chicken.

So paying the guy 44M over the last 2 years is considered winning?

 

Whether you think Kirk is the next Drew Brees or the next Brian Hoyer, how can you possibly think the team has handled him well?  If he's truly as bad as many of you think he is (and to be fair, looked yesterday) than the FO should know that better than anybody and played their hand way differently.  It's fine for fans to be unsure as it's not our money nor are we paid to make the decisions, but you should expect much more out of your FO.

15 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Thought he made the line better? Is the inverse not also true? I'm 100% possivitve I saw him run into pressure and not step up more than a few times. Don't think you can put this all on the line.

Kirk was bad yesterday.  No doubt.  But it's hard to step up when there is nothing to step into.

 

He was never able to get comfortable because the middle of the line consistently got rolled.  Schwartz kept sending his guys because it was successful and Kirk never made them pay.  Total group effort of suck yesterday.

 

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome

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12 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Thought he made the line better? Is the inverse not also true? I'm 100% possivitve I saw him run into pressure and not step up more than a few times. Don't think you can put this all on the line.

No.you can't put it all on the line, but the majority goes to the line. Eagles DL abused them all day.

 

I get so tired of hearing Gruden and players feed us BS during training camp on how good they're looking only to continue to look like, well.....the Redskins. 

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16 minutes ago, KingGibbs said:

Aslong as Spencer Long and Shawn Lauvao are in there Kirk is going to look like "Kurt." In case you don't know this EVERY QB under duress struggles. Just ask Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Eli Manning, etc. 

How is Eli in the same conversation? In the history of football there has never been a more overrated QB. Yes, like Eli... Kirk falls apart when pressured. I actually think the other two you named thrive under it and are at there best off script and creating plays. Since this certainly isn't Cousins, he tries to pull from the Peyton and Brady book, but he isn't anywhere near as talented as those guys either.

 

Honestly, Kirk has average intangibles across the board... his story is supposed to be two-part... 1) that he is a film junkie and super smart. 2) that he has always proven doubters wrong.

 

Really? He's a film junkie who predetermines where he wants to go with the ball and he is simply incapable of adjusting. At least 6-8 times a game we hear about someone else "wide open on the play." He also makes some head scratching decisions for a guy who is supposed to be super smart.

 

And at this level he might never prove doubters wrong. He is a system-guy who can win when everything around him goes right. Could he have a Rypien '91 season someday? Sure. But it is unlikely given what we've seen so far.

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One more thing to add to this. Cousins would get a longer leash withbfans if he wasn't such an ass. This Keim article on Pryor's debut...

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/33045/terrelle-pryor-on-redskins-debut-i-definitely-let-my-teammates-down

 

I became a bigger Pryor fan after a so-so debut because he held himself accountable. And to the the Cousin apologists, Terrell has learned a new position, system and team in less NFL games than Cousins. The words "my fault" haven't come out of a Redskins' QB in a longtime. This should have been Kirk's attitude last season finale when he and he alone cost his team the postseason, and it should have been what he said yesterday in a defeat that was mostly his fault.

 

MODS PLEASE MERGE W ABOVE.

Edited by TheCoach22
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3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

So paying the guy 44M over the last 2 years is considered winning?

 

Whether you think Kirk is the next Drew Brees or the next Brian Hoyer, how can you possibly think the team has handled him well?  If he's truly as bad as many of you think he is (and to be fair, looked yesterday) than the FO should know that better than anybody and played their hand way differently.  It's fine for fans to be unsure as it's not our money nor are we paid to make the decisions, but you should expect much more out of your FO.

Yes, because we're not in a situation now where we made a mistake.  Those 2 seasons, we didnt 'lose' anything by paying him... in 3 years (had we sold the farm) we may be handcuffed with an inflated contract.  I'm not completely lost on Kirk, but I am getting more intrigued about using that money, letting Gruden go... getting a HC and a young QB here starting at the same time... and build this thing right.  I don't see a scenario where Kirk is our QB and we're a LEGIT superbowl contender.   I could be wrong, but i fear we are mired in mediocrity, and if we're gonna be mediocre, might as well have something we're actually building toward. 

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c'mon.... auto correct heh I guess "common" kirk also works ~ an average QB.

 

Kirk seems like one that never takes the credit nor blame - even steven.  Of course, who ever takes the credit. Heh. But Kudos for Pryor manning up and shouldering the loss, which maybe just maybe will take a little heat off of Kirk. Kirk looked nervous and his throws reflected it. I am sure Fletcher ****ing Cox chasing him had some say in that.

 

But a lot of QB's had struggles. Brady lost. Dalton was the worst. Offenses suck early, so that means defenses should use the opportunity to put their foot on QBs necks by mad dog blitzing early in the season. Jay needs to be better prepared for the blitz. It looked like to me we had no hot routes yesterday..... never really burned the blitz which means you know what. More blitz, which in crunch time led to Cousins and the game ending fumble, when they should have been in prevent dammit.

Edited by RandyHolt

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15 hours ago, jschuck12001 said:

Why can't he lead this team effectively when they get in the redzone, and don't blame it on Jay, that's BS.

 

 

I think its because the field shrinks, we cannot run the ball, at all. The D knows it and takes away the only thing we do well with the help of a tiny field.  As for the rest of yesterday, he had a bad day, along with the o-line who got abused and the receivers as well. Except, oddly enough, Grant. It was Bizarro world yesterday.

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21 minutes ago, TheCoach22 said:

One more thing to add to this. Cousins would get a longer leash withbfans if he wasn't such an ass. This Keim article on Pryor's debut...

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/33045/terrelle-pryor-on-redskins-debut-i-definitely-let-my-teammates-down

 

I became a bigger Pryor fan after a so-so debut because he held himself accountable. And to the the Cousin apologists, Terrell has learned a new position, system and team in less NFL games than Cousins. The words "my fault" haven't come out of a Redskins' QB in a longtime. This should have been Kirk's attitude last season finale when he and he alone cost his team the postseason, and it should have been what he said yesterday in a defeat that was mostly his fault.

 

MODS PLEASE MERGE W ABOVE.

 

It's cool that Pryor shouldered the blame, but I'd much prefer he just catch the passes.  I didn't listen to Kirk post game but nothing he said was going to gain him any slack with you guys. 

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14 hours ago, DJD2 said:

I want a QB that elevates a team, not vice versa.

 

Kirk hasn't proven to be that guy.

 

He's a serviceable starting QB that you can win with in certain circumstances.

We all do. Go find one and then make sure he falls in our laps instead of one of the other 31 teams come draft day.

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14 hours ago, DJD2 said:

I want a QB that elevates a team, not vice versa.

Why don't you go get one from the QB store since you seem to think it's so easy to get one.

 

Kirk had an awful game no doubt.

 

It's a lot more amusing to read all of the "sky is falling our season is doomed 0-16 with KC" posts than I thought it would be.  The radio is just as comical too.

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10 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Lets hope this mythical player is better than Heath Shuler(4), Brad Johnson(11), Patrick Ramsey(32), Jason Campbell(25), RG3(2).

 

In fairness. The ability of rookie Qb's to adapt to the NFL game has changes so much since then. The game is completely different with every team playing some form of spread offense now. The transition is much easier now then it used to be. And we are seeing that on the field over the past few years. Young QB's come in and are perfectly capable of playing at Cousins level. 

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2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

It's cool that Pryor shouldered the blame, but I'd much prefer he just catch the passes.  I didn't listen to Kirk post game but nothing he said was going to gain him any slack with you guys. 

Sure... but accountability matters. Kirk didn't lose me with how he played in the finale last year... he lost me with his attitude about it. I wanted either tears, or a tantrum... some emotion, but the dude is a robot. Instead he stayed on script and went as far as to say it was up to the team as to whether he would be back, as if he had nothing to say or do about it. Then, he opens the season right where he left off, and his response is that he'd "like to have some throws back." He seems checked out on this fan base and franchise. Not what you want in a QB.

 

For me, Cousins is Alex Smith with a tinge more upside, but a tinge more likely to make a mistake... Smith makes roughly 15 mill a season, price of inflation I'd say Cousins is worth 20 mill at most. He's looking for closer to 30 mill. If he can find a sucker, he'll ultimately rob NFL franchises to the tune of upside of $150 mill (44 mill from us and over 100 mill from the next team). That's Sam Bradford level robbery in my opinion. I'm just saying I would be more willing to support Dan giving him more of his money if they guy would stand-up and own it more often.

 

What would sway me in terms of on-the-field, which as you say is what matters most? A double-digit win season, a playoff win and some consistency. Some division games where we are talking about Kirk being the reason we won, not debating if he is the biggest reason we lost. He had the Eagles' number, but the Giants own him. Cousins also threw a very similar pick in the RZ last year and jump started the Cowboys' season. The dude literally started the Dak era, which makes me sick. As fans, it is how and why threads titled, "Kirk... I just don't know" exist.

 

Other than fear of the unknown... and your self-confessed BFS... does anything in Kirk/Jay suggest this is going to get figured out and that the team will be competitive every year Cousins is under a 4-5 year contract? I see four or five more Even-Steven type seasons where we could make the playoffs, but unless everything breaks right, we will fall short of championship caliber. Is it better than what we've had? Sure. Is it worth taking 17 Sundays away from my wife and kids? Hell no.

 

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10 hours ago, LaxBuddy21 said:

Yea cuz Flacco carried that team right? Flacco got paid because his contract was due to be renewed and they didn't want to start back digging through the scrap heap. Trent Dilfer won a superbowl too and how did his contract end up? You pay quarterbacks that are good enough to win or you go back to being irrelevant. It's pretty simple. 

Flacco CARRIED that team in the playoffs that year for sure. It is laughable to try to compare Cousins to Flacco in big games:

 

Rk Year Date G# Age Tm   Opp Result GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Sk Yds Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD TD Pts
10 2012 2013-01-06 17 27-356 BAL   IND W 24-9 * 12 23 52.17 282 2 0 125.6 1 13 12.26 14.00 3 -3 -1.00 0 0 0
11 2012 2013-01-12 18 27-362 BAL @ DEN W 38-35 * 18 34 52.94 331 3 0 116.2 1 7 9.74 11.50 2 7 3.50 0 0 0
12 2012 2013-01-20 19 28-004 BAL @ NWE W 28-13 * 21 36 58.33 240 3 0 106.2 2 5 6.67 8.33 3 12 4.00 0 0 0
13 2012 2013-02-03 20 28-018 BAL N SFO W 34-31 * 22 33 66.67 287 3 0 124.2 2 13 8.70 10.52 0 0   0 0 0

 

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