hockeyiszen

I hate to say it but Snyder and Allen might have done the right thing

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15 hours ago, Bacon said:

No, they did not do the right thing. Even if SM was an incompetent alcoholic in his last days with the team, the process of phasing him out was harmful and woefully opaque.

 

Regardless of whether or not SM was let go "justly" for "alcoholism," the lack of transparency from the front office that peaked at a horrendously inopportune time (just prior to the combine/FA) was inexcusable, detrimental to the franchise they claim to have the best interests of.  "We will have no further comment?" **** that. Those of us who have put time, money and emotional investment into this iteration of the Redskins (2015-2017), deserve a clear explanation for their decision and the manner in which it was carried out. 

 

 

Just stop! They phased him out because he was not doing his job. Scot doesn't get a pass because he sees talent. 

No further comment? Right! They could say all that happened the last 18 months. That wouldn't be good for Scot. And how come Scot hasn't said anything?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, FrFan said:

I do, its not a problem of quantity it's about quality. I don't think good GMs grow on trees, and who's available ? Who's your choice Bang ?

I don't know much, Ballard signed with the Colts, only Pioli, Gutekunst, Wolf comes to mind, and knowing Allen will be on their back I doubt they will join. In the end we might promote from within with Doug Williams (at least he fits Allen's Tampa connection:silly:).

 

Well, to be honest, right now i don't think we NEED to go grab a GM. Allen is working these free agents well, and ostensibly, draft prep is in place and still to be finalized. (any GM with no job in spring..  not one i'd want.  we've got time to see what the trees shake loose over the next year..) 

free agency seems successful, the draft remains to be judged.

Who my candidate might be has no bearing on who might want the job, or who i, not being in the biz, actually know about. But I very much doubt if a GM is out of work and gets a nice offer o work for the NFL again, it won't be too hard to convince them to come in. 


I haven't discussed the possible reasons behind Scott's dismissal.. i think the reasons being floated out by the Redskins (and not really refuted) are deep in the category of "not my business'..  it's a personal thing and far be it from me to judge a man's problems. Allen obviously saw opportunity when he hired him and that leads me to believe he didn't just hire a sycophant, and would also lead me to believe he would try to hire someone else.. but i don't think it's critical right at this moment.

Now, if what the Redskins say turns out to be true.. well, there really isn't any easy way to handle it, especially if it comes to a head right at this time of year.

 

There was a lot of panic about Scott not being here on the first day of free agency, all the hysterics about sending tghe wrong message, scaring prospects away.. turned out to be smoke. The prospects we've brought in have signed contracts, ad it appears to me that we're going for exactly what they said tgheir plan was.. 2nd tier FAs.. not to break the bank and to work them in conjunction with the 10 draft picks we've got.

 

Life in the NFL is fleeting. i dont know too many GMs with the credentials to turn down jobs. 

 

~Bang

Edited by Bang
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3 minutes ago, Bang said:

Well, to be honest, right now i don't think we NEED to go grab a GM. Allen is working these free agents well, and ostensibly, draft prep is in place

 

Yep, from what I understand, they are using the FA board Scott helped put together.

 

I think they will also use his draft board come late April.

 

No need to get another GM until after the draft.

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I doubt we will ever know what truly happened. The three bad points in this were

 

(1) Cooley's initial accusation that started all this drinking talk.  Before,  people would mention it but only as a possibility. Having a guy associated with the team, paid by the team just looks bad.

 

(2) The random leak after the firing. This was just annoying because it (was made to seem like it) happened right after we fired him, thus making it seem like Bruce leaked it. I don't believe that right now,  but have no evidence to back that up.  

 

(3) The multiple reporters and radio show hosts who now after the fact are coming out and saying what they had heard about Scot, the drinking environment at Redskins park, episodes in the locker room,  etc. Suddenly hearing about these stories now does two things in my mind - (a) they concurrently make the team look bad as if the team released it all at once, but even if the team did release the Cooley story and the leak, it's not making GP&DR tell stories about the environment that they knew long before, or telling the 5-7 am guy say what he had heard long ago but decided to keep quiet until now.  (b) they give the media things to talk about,  and without the need for sources,  they can say pretty much whatever they want.  

 

I still don't buy the Allen/Scot friction story because now all the rumors are talking about Scot's drinking,  with nothing further about their friction other than from that same source.  

 

I'm definitely not in a happy state with the franchise, but i think comparing this to the pre zorn, or pre Shanny eras is a bit much. In my opinion,  this sorry is 75% media and 25% fact. 

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26 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I doubt we will ever know what truly happened. The three bad points in this were

 

(1) Cooley's initial accusation that started all this drinking talk.  Before,  people would mention it but only as a possibility. Having a guy associated with the team, paid by the team just looks bad.

 

(2) The random leak after the firing. This was just annoying because it (was made to seem like it) happened right after we fired him, thus making it seem like Bruce leaked it. I don't believe that right now,  but have no evidence to back that up.  

 

(3) The multiple reporters and radio show hosts who now after the fact are coming out and saying what they had heard about Scot, the drinking environment at Redskins park, episodes in the locker room,  etc. Suddenly hearing about these stories now does two things in my mind - (a) they concurrently make the team look bad as if the team released it all at once, but even if the team did release the Cooley story and the leak, it's not making GP&DR tell stories about the environment that they knew long before, or telling the 5-7 am guy say what he had heard long ago but decided to keep quiet until now.  (b) they give the media things to talk about,  and without the need for sources,  they can say pretty much whatever they want.  

 

I still don't buy the Allen/Scot friction story because now all the rumors are talking about Scot's drinking,  with nothing further about their friction other than from that same source.  

 

I'm definitely not in a happy state with the franchise, but i think comparing this to the pre zorn, or pre Shanny eras is a bit much. In my opinion,  this sorry is 75% media and 25% fact. 

 

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Strange thing is the press jumped on Redskins come out with the truth on this incident and when it finally comes out the Redskins are accused of being distasteful

The media hates Redskins in this area and if u ask me O think it sucks the way the organization is being hammered. 

Dan spends money and always had. maybe they just didnt want 2 recivers on decline without many years left in them and maybe Cousin is crying a little to much.

24 million is lot money to give a sub 500 quarterback who cant score in red zone. sure its best he have that doesnt say much

 

 

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49 minutes ago, konga2145 said:

Strange thing is the press jumped on Redskins come out with the truth on this incident and when it finally comes out the Redskins are accused of being distasteful

The media hates Redskins in this area and if u ask me O think it sucks the way the organization is being hammered. 

Dan spends money and always had. maybe they just didnt want 2 recivers on decline without many years left in them and maybe Cousin is crying a little to much.

24 million is lot money to give a sub 500 quarterback who cant score in red zone. sure its best he have that doesnt say much

 

 

 

I agree somewhat. Its clear to me that in an obviously two sided story where no ones **** smells good, the media is unquestionably pro Scot, despite what we know:

 

-He was already a disgraced exec when he came here

 

-He was the one who took his ball and went home before the Senior Bowl

 

-He wanted the team to reprimand Cooley, when (and I forgot this) Cooley does not technically work for them, so its not like they can **** on him, without overstepping their authority and giving ammo to the morons who still think Snyder owning 980 means he's the judge jury and executioner

 

He clearly fired the first shot when he ran to the media and buried the Skins with the "This is just a power struggle" leaks. The media had no problem with this. You do that and  its open season as far as im concerned. He should've just rode this out quietly,  but he chose to escalate things.

 

In a situation where no one looks good, he seems to be playing the victim.  Not gonna work.

 

No one here would take that from somebody, if they knew they were a royal ****up, then watched them take the gloves off and air dirty laundry

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I would continue to argue the point tooth and nail that the way this firing was carried out smacked of incompetence that will negatively impact our draft and future personnel signings, but it's clear that many here actually believe what our front office has to say. And I suppose that's good for them. Don't be as cynical as I am. When the next GM is hired, assuming they even bother to dilute Bruce Allen's power to even the smallest degree, enjoy the honeymoon. I fully expect them to strip SM's replacement of power almost immediately. Again, assuming they even bother to put up a facade this time.

 

We'll never know for sure what happened and neither will any of the league's great football minds. We can only infer based on the past behavior of both sides. And if you think that's OK, keep a close eye on the pedigree of talent we lure into the front office.

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I actually like the silence the FO is exhibitting, before, during and after the debacle. You have an employee that has lost 2 front office jobs before he was hired here. They gave him another chance and it did not work. There was nothing  to gain by talking about the situation.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Bacon said:

We'll never know for sure what happened and neither will any of the league's great football minds. We can only infer based on the past behavior of both sides. 

 

I agree, which is why, based on what we know now, its hard to pick a side anyway. What you have is an organization that is known  to make bad decisions routinely, and an alcoholic who was not able to keep it together. Really doesn't seem anything more than that

 

Quote

I would continue to argue the point tooth and nail that the way this firing was carried out smacked of incompetence that will negatively impact our draft and future personnel signings

 

Incomepetence? Sure. But if you want to tell me how one is supposed to handle a guy that flies the coop, after a plan was already set in motion to move on, and this blows up in the media, what should be done? They said he was not fired, and he wasn't. They said he was taking time off to handle personal matters, and that wasn't good enough. What's next? The truth? The truth (as close as we'll likely ever get to it) is out now, and its not pretty, for anyone. 

 

So the Skins can be the ones to take the hit in the end, but i  terms of how this is being portrayed, some egregious borderline human rights violation that deserves the scorn of the world and contraction of the team? I  can't help but laugh at that.

 

So far, despite what someone on the outside wants to print, it has not shown to be affecting any signings so far at all, and im not sure how much the draft acquisitions are to be affected, considering that according to reports, Scot lost this Game of Thrones like power struggle a long time ago, and was propped up to maintain the illusion of status quo.

Edited by Mr. Sinister
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16 hours ago, slaga said:

I actually like the silence the FO is exhibitting, before, during and after the debacle. You have an employee that has lost 2 front office jobs before he was hired here. They gave him another chance and it did not work. There was nothing  to gain by talking about the situation.

Yes, and the FO was getting slammed for that. Vinny ran his mouth. The FO got slammed for that. 🙄🙄🙄

Where is Scot? He hasn't said a word. 

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Posted (edited)

everyone in the org is being silent, it's like the patriot way, without the winning.

 

Cousins isn't running his mouth either, if he really hates bruce he could take this up to 11, and still end up looking like the victim.

Edited by RedskinsMayne

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While there has been little out of Scots side during this whole thing.... I will bet his wife changes all that soon enough. 

Come to think of it I haven't heard much out of Russini about it either 😄

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21 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

Yep, from what I understand, they are using the FA board Scott helped put together.

 

I think they will also use his draft board come late April.

 

No need to get another GM until after the draft.

 

So, if we have a good off-season, it will be because of SM....let's remember that if these FA flop and the draft sucks....I bet Bruce will get the blame.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

So, if we have a good off-season, it will be because of SM....let's remember that if these FA flop and the draft sucks....I bet Bruce will get the blame.

 

I'm just telling you what I read.

 

It's probably one of the reasons they felt comfortable canning him, because they already had all this laid out.

 

You don't think they wait till the middle of April to get all this together, do you? :ols:

 

But of course, Allen will deserve the blame, years from now, if the picks don't work out. He'll be the one making the picks it appears. GMSM is gone.

 

Allen won out. The responsibility is all his now.

Edited by SkinsGuy

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Posted (edited)

The media saw that the Skins were off to a decent start in FA, so let's make sure not to give Bruce/Dan credit...Let's tell people that they are using SM's board

 

This whole thing is such a one sided, agenda driven joke.....I'm just amazed people don't see through it.

 

Did it ever occur to anyone that SM knew that if he got canned for drinking; he would probably never get another GM job?

 

Is it not possible (likely); that his side wanted to leak the "Bruce is jealous" story?     Because we all know the media and fans will buy it.

Edited by SkinsPassion4Life
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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

The media saw that the Skins were off to a decent start in FA, so let's make sure not to give Bruce/Dan credit

 

This whole thing is such a one sided, agenda driven joke.....I'm just amazed people don't see through it.

 

Did it ever occur to anyone that SM knew that if he got canned for drinking; he would probably never get another GM job?

 

Is it not possible (likely); that his side wanted to leak the "Bruce is jealous" story?     Because we all know the media and fans will buy it.

 

The only agenda here  is your strange hatred of GMSM, and the frustrated haughtiness you show at anyone that gives him credit for anything or shows him sympathy.

 

Did he kick your dog once? Or say something bad about your mama or something? :rolleyes: :ols:

48 minutes ago, RedskinsMayne said:

everyone in the org is being silent, it's like the patriot way, without the winning.

 

Cousins isn't running his mouth either, if he really hates bruce he could take this up to 11, and still end up looking like the victim.

 

If Cousins really hated Allen and didn't want to be here, he would just threaten not to show up for any of the OTAs or mini-camps or any team activities.

 

Just completely disconnect from the team and stay disconnected unless he is traded.

 

However, he isn't doing that. He's going to work out with Jay's brother Jon and some other players, and will be here for the offseason work.

 

I think Cousins wants to be here. We'll see if they can work out a LTD.

Edited by SkinsGuy
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Just now, SkinsGuy said:

 

The only agenda here  is your strange hatred of GMSM, and the frustrated haughtiness you show at anyone that gives him credit for anything or shows him sympathy.

 

Did he kick your dog once? Or say something bad about your mama or something? :rolleyes: :ols:

 

I'm pro Redskins...I think the agenda driven PIGS in the media have hurt this franchise a lot more than Dan/Bruce.....their biggest problem is Public Relations.

 

I guarantee you; that if Dan acted like Jerry Jones and talked to the media daily; this franchise would not get bad anywhere near the bad press it gets.

 

As far as GMSM...I've said many times that I like him....I like his general philosophy on how to build a team.....but the fact is he did not do a very good job in his two years here....I'm going to stay way from the drinking...My sense is that it was a big reason he got canned....not because Bruce was jealous of him.

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It's not like McCloughan was operating heavy machinery.  I don't care if our GM is a drunk.

 

It's not like this wasn't news, either.  I think the appropriate response would have been to let him know from Day 1 that if he relapses or has any issues that the team is there to help him in any way possible.  

 

Snyder and Allen did not do the right thing.  They didn't try to help, as far as I can tell.  There was a battle of egos that got in the way of what was looking to be a properly constructed football team.  They let their egos and personal feelings get in the way of the greater good which is wins and continuity.  It has been reported that the Skins have been shredded in league circles for what they've done.  They've done nothing to distance themselves from the notion that they're buffoons and constantly screw up.

 

That is why this wasn't a good move.  The only way this could be a good move is if they somehow get a GM who can take what Scot had started and bring it to the next level.  I doubt they can because they've shown time and time again that they'll boof the pooch whenever possible.

 

 

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The bottom line is the Redskins absolutely have handled the messaging around this situation like morons.   No one could reasonably suggest otherwise.

 

At the same time, the reason they fired him is because he has not been answering his phone or responding to messages the last several weeks.   The team knew he was on a bender because of his grandmother and for some time just thought he'd snap out of it.   When it became apparent his voice mail was full and he had not returned hundreds of texts for several weeks, the team realized this was going to explode and let him go.

The anonymous plant in the news was unnecessary.   But there was no choice on this.

 

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2 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

As far as GMSM...I've said many times that I like him....I like his general philosophy on how to build a team.....but the fact is he did not do a very good job in his two years here....I'm going to stay way from the drinking...My sense is that it was a big reason he got canned....not because Bruce was jealous of him.

 

Please. :rolleyes:

 

You've been here less than a year, and of every post I've seen of yours, I haven't seen you write one nice or favorable thing about him.

 

I mean, the man has been fired, and you're still on this board stomping your feet and pouting about people talking favorably about him.

 

You aren't fooling anyone, you know. :) 

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28 minutes ago, RedskinsMayne said:

everyone in the org is being silent, it's like the patriot way, without the winning.

 

Cousins isn't running his mouth either, if he really hates bruce he could take this up to 11, and still end up looking like the victim.

 

Right except for the winning and murdering.

I know this much as a recovered alcoholic. The GMSM thing lasted 18 mos longer than I thought it would. I am not saying that  Scot was indeed an alcoholic...That is for him to decide, but I remember an interview with him on ESPN just prior to being hired by the skins where dude was sipping on a tall boy talking about the fact that he didn't have a problem with alcohol. RED FLAG That's the exact same way I used to feel. I didn't have a problem with alcohol, my problem was with you and your view of my drinking, I'm just really thirsty okay !!!

 

The team took a risk hiring him and benefited greatly from it but it reached a tipping point and as unprofessional and PR tone deaf as they are they had to make a tough decision. Scot would never be able to be a mouthpiece for the organization he was a liability, which is saying a lot given the fact that we have DS and BA at the controls. Bruce admittedly was using Scots scouting services when he drafted Breeland , Long , Moses and Murphy and it could've remained that way except for the knee jerk reaction to the whole "winning off the field " gem of a press conference which gave us Scot as our ne GM. In my view things were and still are trending in the right direction. Think about it for a minute. They are still planning on hiring a GM that is a total change in philosophy from the Snyderatto era of dysfunction. Bruce has made some dumb calls as Pres. but I get the sense that he is "tryin' real hard to be the shepherd"

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2 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

 

 

As far as GMSM...I've said many times that I like him....I like his general philosophy on how to build a team.....but the fact is he did not do a very good job in his two years here....

 

He was doing a fine job.  When you take into account that he wasn't able to bring in his scouts and that Bruce overrode some of the decisions that he made, he did about as well as anyone could have expected him to do.

 

I don't know what people here were expecting.  It's like they expected him to draft an all-pro every round from the first to the seventh.  Look at his drafts in SF and Seattle, they weren't all amazing.  He definitely had some misses but overall he did pretty well.  The cavalier attitude that some posters (not necessarily you, SP4L) have about the job he was doing just doesn't make sense.

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Why is it ok to plant stories about Dan/Bruce, but not about Scot or anyone else?

 

But they really need to get their PR/Comms situation figured out....I don't understand why Tony Wylie is still here.

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