Jumbo

Moose & Squirrel v Boris & Natasha: what's the deal with the rooskies and trumpland?

1,453 posts in this topic

Per requests in other t-threads and because it's fitting as a standalone.

 

To that end, I will ban for trolling anyone who pops in with a complaint about the thread's existence.

 

Have at it. :runlukerun:

 

 

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maybe i'll go ahead and make the first actual post

 

 

all the issues we have with russia can be directly attributed to obama and hillary and the ever-whiny left

 

 

ooops. guess now it's close/thread time. :D

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Uh oh...

 

NSFW - Language

 

 

Serious question are you going to lock ALL of the other ones ? ( I didn't complain, because I don't care enough to bother reading all of it) I went in to read one of them..realized I was 9 pages behind...

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Maybe Herr Drumpf is an Austin Powers fan.

 

 

74204156a3d6a07445aff488c580663f.jpg

 

 

 

That's Ivana.

 

Ivana Humpalot.

Edited by The Evil Genius
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I have a broad question.

 

What is the worst thing that could have happened?  IMO- Trump was given sweetheart deals in Russia for his businesses, in exchange for promises that if he became POTUS, he would relax sanctions and look the other way on Crimea etc.  Is there a WORSE (legit) scenario?

 

And more to the point, what can be done about it?

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4 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I have a broad question.

 

What is the worst thing that could have happened?  IMO- Trump was given sweetheart deals in Russia for his businesses, in exchange for promises that if he became POTUS, he would relax sanctions and look the other way on Crimea etc.  Is there a WORSE (legit) scenario?

 

And more to the point, what can be done about it?

Collusion on email leaks?

Hpw would that NOT be impeachable?

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I think for now the big deal is why the admin was doing so much lying and obfuscation on all of it (and there's a lot of "it")--i.e., it could well be relatively innocent (seems like a serious stretch of credulity) but then why all the intense subterfuge?

 

even just the flynn angle re: the last month---why all the lying if it was not anything to worry about.

 

but i don't plan on engaging much in this, so i'm just laying that out there to kilmer and for gen use

 

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4 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I have a broad question.

 

But not about russian hookers? Darn.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

What is the worst thing that could have happened?  IMO- Trump was given sweetheart deals in Russia for his businesses, in exchange for promises that if he became POTUS, he would relax sanctions and look the other way on Crimea etc.  Is there a WORSE (legit) scenario?

 

And more to the point, what can be done about it?

 

 

To me, the idea that he would owe favors or continuously be under the direction of another country isn't something to shrug off. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I have a broad question.

 

What is the worst thing that could have happened?  IMO- Trump was given sweetheart deals in Russia for his businesses, in exchange for promises that if he became POTUS, he would relax sanctions and look the other way on Crimea etc.  Is there a WORSE (legit) scenario?

 

And more to the point, what can be done about it?

 

Right off the bat, that sets him up for future blackmail.  (That's where I said in the other thread, I don't think Kelly talking to the Russians before the election is a big deal.  The problem is lying about it when the Russians know you have lied.)

 

And what do you mean by etc?  Would that include looking the other way on interference and even the re-taking of the Blatic states (currently members of NATO)?  (What does that do with respect to our Western European NATO allies?)

 

Stepping back from conflicts between Japan and Russia over disputed islands ((further) alienating a  long time US ally and a key to our Pacific/Asian foreign policy)?

 

Could the Russians turn the fact that he's worked with them in the past as blackmail to affect other future negotiations at the expense of our longer term allies?

Edited by PeterMP
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13 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I have a broad question.

 

What is the worst thing that could have happened?  IMO- Trump was given sweetheart deals in Russia for his businesses, in exchange for promises that if he became POTUS, he would relax sanctions and look the other way on Crimea etc.  Is there a WORSE (legit) scenario?

 

And more to the point, what can be done about it?

 

I think the worst case scenario is that Russia uses information it has against Trump in a way to directly harm US and related interests.  Specifically military and financial interests.

 

Further, I think Russia has shown the ability to use propaganda through social media and news organizations to destabilize an already unstable constituency.

 

The fact that Trump has almost neglected these things is deeply concerning.

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Worst case plausible scenario? 

Russia has significant leverage on Trump (financial, embarassing footage, something) and uses that to influence Trump to relax sanctions.  This then emboldens Putin to become more aggressive and more destabilizing to Europe and other important areas.  It emboldens Russia to continue to be uninterested in human rights violations.  Because of their leverage on our leaders, US no longer can intervene and establish peace/civility.  Russia then becomes strengthened as an international power.  More violence ensues, millions are displaced, etc.  Very very bad.  

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11 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

But not about russian hookers? Darn.

 

 

 

 

To me, the idea that he would owe favors or continuously be under the direction of another country isn't something to shrug off. 

 

I agree.  That was one of the biggest concerns with Hillary.  And it should be a huge concern now.

 

But does that violate a US law?

13 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

I think for now the big deal is why the admin was doing so much lying and obfuscation on all of it (and there's a lot of "it")--i.e., it could well be relatively innocent (seems like a serious stretch of credulity) but then why all the intense subterfuge?

 

even just the flynn angle re: the last month---why all the lying if it was not anything to worry about.

 

but i don't plan on engaging much in this, so i'm just laying that out there to kilmer and for gen use

 

Im stuck between the idea that they are nefarious and the idea that they are morons.

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6 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

 

Im stuck between the idea that they are nefarious and the idea that they are morons.

 

 

c'mon dude. you're smart enough to know that in our culture---in most of this world----those traits are often copilots, esp. in real estate, religion, and politics.

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1 minute ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

c'mon dude. you're smart enough to know that in our culture---in most of this world----they'e often copilots, esp. in real estate, religion, and politics.

 

Trump has a rather clever way of feigning ignorance when he comes up with lies... then claiming them to be true.

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1 minute ago, Springfield said:

 

Trump has a rather clever way of feigning ignorance when he comes up with lies... then claiming them to be true.

 

 

he's a practiced hand at all the ways of the con, had excellent teachers in his background (Roy C. for one; many others) and it shows in most of who is always around him in his move to become King---bannon is a master at it (and also actually loony in places), sessions is a dark hole of dishonesty and sly manipulation (he is every bit the bigot his non-loony adversaries say, but knows (learned decades ago) how vital it is to hide it in more current climes and work from the inside to marginalize the darker hued and non-xtians) and his surrogates all sure seem to feature a healthy share of kilmer's "nefarious and moron" qualities.

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16 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I agree.  That was one of the biggest concerns with Hillary.  And it should be a huge concern now.

 

But does that violate a US law?

Im stuck between the idea that they are nefarious and the idea that they are morons.

 

12 posts to bring up Hillary.  That's impressive!

 

Troll status: ELITE

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1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

12 posts to bring up Hillary.  That's impressive!

 

Troll status: ELITE

Alternative Facts!  Troll! blah blah blah

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To me, the biggest implications involve (as others have mentioned) a further emboldened Russia that 1) destabizes Europe (our allies) 2) enriches itself (and allows it to upgrade its military might 3) continues to undermine our democracy and other "legitimate" democracies 4) erodes US ability to continue as a superpower (economically and militarily) 5) enables ascendancy of more authoritarian regimes 6) decreases the worldwide focus on climate change and humanitarian policies.  

 

It might not look too extreme in the short term, but these are things that can lead to a rapid decline in our (America's) civilization.  Historically, we're already starting to push the bounds of a civilization superpower - I believe Rome (the longest lasting) lasted around 350 yrs and we're around 250.  I doubt the most Romans saw the fall coming until it was upon them.  Not trying to be all doom and gloom, but it's easy for us (or any people living in a strong nation/civilization) to not realize how quickly things can snowball.  

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That movie has all the feels. Plus, the ice cream shop at the end is a real place in Oakland. :)

 

Back on topic...I wonder how much of the dossier is going to be accurate? And how much of it will ever get proven?

Edited by The Evil Genius
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19 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Alternative Facts!  Troll! blah blah blah

 

1jpb4t.jpg

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I'm a tad confused at the title, aren't we in a cartoon where the moose and squirrel are in active collusion with Boris and Natasha instead of a -vs- situation?

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7 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

1jpb4t.jpg

One of the few benefits of this disaster is watching folks like you lose your minds every five minutes.  It's like watching a five year old throw a temper tantrum in a store because their mom wont buy them something they want.

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the title allows for members to play with the role assignments---i think of everything---the guys will tell you it's a nasty habit---very annoying

 

interesting to see how t-rump behaves i n front of nettiin' yahoo  if axed a question on the russian front (assuming they call on an "opposition" news source lol)

 

like will he go all macho on the actual rooskie spy ship/missile/troop movements (in sev areas last 24 hrs) and/or beats up hard on the press (if he takes the q)...i'm sure leaks will be mentioned and maybe that being around his supportive firm-handed guest will bolster him in taking aggressive counter-punching stances

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