What's your favorite/least favorite Led Zeppelin album?

[Captain Wiggles]

Just now, codeorama said:

 

I record a lot and I use comping for demos, just to lay out a song, but when I record for real, I play all the parts and track doubles.  I really like it when there is some variance in playing. Old Van Halen was awesome because of this. Lots of mistakes can be heard. Today, you have crap that sounds like a computer made it.

 

I haven't even picked up a guitar in about a year and a half. Roland Aira products have turned me over to the dark side.

 

I love albums from the 60s/70s for the reasons you've already mentioned. That feeling of live recording can't really be beat IMO. Probably  why I still go to as many concerts as I do. I could care less about music being note perfect. Capturing the right sound and energy is still what matters.

[Busch1724]

Back to Page/Clapton stuff, sure Clapton while a great guitarist and certainly influential, Page was much more diverse. Another aspect of Page that gets overlooked is that he didn't need to become a band leader. He had a great career as a session musician. He was by no means sloppy. Now live on heroin, drunk, and whatever other substance; he became sloppy. 

[Busch1724]

On the topic of Bohnam and Baker. Those two are basically untouched as far as ability. Ginger was certainly more of a jazz guy so he never showed off serious groove drumming, power drumming, etc. 

 

One drummer who is close to Bohnam and should be mentioned in the same class is Alex Van Halen. Both of those guys could play anything. More importantly, they each could play jazz and rock. They each could swing and groove. They each were able to play on beat, off beat, play with power, play with finesse all while never losing time. They can/could play absolutely anything, not sure if Ginger could do that because he never really attempted it.

[codeorama]

9 minutes ago, Busch1724 said:

On the topic of Bohnam and Baker. Those two are basically untouched as far as ability. Ginger was certainly more of a jazz guy so he never showed off serious groove drumming, power drumming, etc. 

 

One drummer who is close to Bohnam and should be mentioned in the same class is Alex Van Halen. Both of those guys could play anything. More importantly, they each could play jazz and rock. They each could swing and groove. They each were able to play on beat, off beat, play with power, play with finesse all while never losing time. They can/could play absolutely anything, not sure if Ginger could do that because he never really attempted it.

 

When it comes to musicians, it's really hard to judge them. There are so many ways you can judge them.

Since Bohnam, there are clearly other drummers that are "better" in terms of skill. Neil Peart and Danny Carey come to mind. The stuff they have done is mind blowing.  But Bohnam did what he did in a different era and is great in its own way. IMO, a lot of what makes someone great is the originality and just the fact that they created it etc... I'm sure there's an 11 year old kid somewhere that can play every Zeppelin song perfectly. But he didn't create it.

18 minutes ago, clietas said:

 

I haven't even picked up a guitar in about a year and a half. Roland Aira products have turned me over to the dark side.

 

I love albums from the 60s/70s for the reasons you've already mentioned. That feeling of live recording can't really be beat IMO. Probably  why I still go to as many concerts as I do. I could care less about music being note perfect. Capturing the right sound and energy is still what matters.

 

No doubt...!!  

[grego]

its really interesting and surprising to me that theres quite a bit of disagreement when it comes to the songs. there are some songs that i always thought were locks as universally loved classics, and some that i thought were meh. when it comes to albums, theres always disagreement- mostly because you can make a case for almost any of them, but the songs? i always thought most zep fans loved the same ones, more or less. 

[aREDSKIN]

1 hour ago, codeorama said:

 

When it comes to musicians, it's really hard to judge them. There are so many ways you can judge them.

Since Bohnam, there are clearly other drummers that are "better" in terms of skill. Neil Peart and Danny Carey come to mind. The stuff they have done is mind blowing.  But Bohnam did what he did in a different era and is great in its own way. IMO, a lot of what makes someone great is the originality and just the fact that they created it etc... I'm sure there's an 11 year old kid somewhere that can play every Zeppelin song perfectly. But he didn't create it.

 

No doubt...!!  

The "create" aspect for me is what sets off the 'GREATS" from the other competents. Sure there are many that can copy, imitate/play the classics as well as the original artists but the missing component is the "creation' of the classic/masterpiece. The imagination, creation, thought process, and dedication to develop and  make these classic work product(s) are a skill set many do not have. Being the original gets a lot of credence from me and a lot of others too.

[The 12th Commandment]

5 minutes ago, grego said:

its really interesting and surprising to me that theres quite a bit of disagreement when it comes to the songs. there are some songs that i always thought were locks as universally loved classics, and some that i thought were meh. when it comes to albums, theres always disagreement- mostly because you can make a case for almost any of them, but the songs? i always thought most zep fans loved the same ones, more or less. 

That's a good point.  It's way easier for me to discuss the Zep songs that I don't like because there aren't very many of them.  But I think it boils down to the mood your in when you're having the discussion.  Carousalambra is an awesome tune but when I feel like listening to No Quarter or the Immigrant Song it's not what I want to hear.  They are so diverse that at certain points in my life I've gravitated to certain styles of songs they have in the same way that I might (and have) gravitate towards C/W or old jazz for a while.

[Riggo-toni]

Sorry, but Alex Van Halen is an lamentably average drummer. No, I am not a VH hater; I've bought several of their albums and seen them in concert. You could take more than half of the drum tracks Alex recorded and swap them into another song with no difference. Just the same old bass drum on the one, three, three-and; and the snare on the two, four. Hot for Teacher is a break from that, but he's just using a double bass pedal.

For pure energy, nobody matches Keith Moon, but he didn't have much in the way of versatility. Baker was an exceptional musician, and contributed significantly to song arrangements in Cream. If you have an ear for drumming and see a cover band doing either Sunshine of Your Love or Crossroads, 9 times out of 10, the drummer isn't playing it like Ginger at all, but is substituting a more conventional rock beat.

[Spaceman Spiff]

21 hours ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said:

Ha!  Is this it Spaceman?

 

 

 

Yup, that's exactly it.  But I had it on a CD somewhere, I'd heard it on the CD before actually seeing that video, then was blown away when I saw the video.  I love this, thanks for digging it up!

[Springfield]

Listened to 4 at the gym today.  Prefer 1 and 2 over 3 and 4.

 

As of right now, my order is 1, 2, 4, 3 best to worst.

[Going Commando]

10 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

For pure energy, nobody matches Keith Moon, but he didn't have much in the way of versatility. Baker was an exceptional musician, and contributed significantly to song arrangements in Cream. If you have an ear for drumming and see a cover band doing either Sunshine of Your Love or Crossroads, 9 times out of 10, the drummer isn't playing it like Ginger at all, but is substituting a more conventional rock beat.

Keith Moon must have had some sort of hormonal condition that gave him superhuman energy.  That's the only explanation for him.  As a languid person, I can't fathom what being him must have been like.

 

Sunshine of Your Love was a truly inspired creation and, as iconic as the riff it's built around is, Ginger Baker's drumming is what makes the whole song.  His jazz and afrobeat background has got to be where that monster 1 3 tom beat came from.  That diverse background is why I think he was so special.

 

To me, Sunshine of Your Love is to drumming what Love Her Madly and Under My Thumb are to bass playing.  It's the instrument at the peak of it's effect as an accompaniment within the genre.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

What guys?  Hey, Cream is one of my favorite bands, top 15, maybe top 10...but Ginger Baker was an arm-heavy player who hammered on his drums.  His technique is what makes his sound his, but that doesn't mean it's good technically.  It makes Keith Moon's technique look like Carter Beauford's.  We'll get to Moon at a later time...

 

Baker was great in his own right, but if you're talking "jazz" sound at that time, he's not even in the same universe as someone like Elvin Jones or Tony Williams.  There is no comparison.  Bonzo is a lot more like those guys, and he had an affinity for (check the screename) double stroke rolls.  Bonzo was laying down some nasty technique in Zep 1 and 2.  The snare work is filthy.  He gets so much praise for his bass drum technique, but his snare skills were unbelievably beautiful.  Not a God on them like the jazz drummers of the era, or a lot of modern drummers, but such a knack for finding things like a beautiful flutter or the correct volume RIGHT at the correct moment.  I think of "The Lemon Song"

 

16 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

Sorry, but Alex Van Halen is an lamentably average drummer. No, I am not a VH hater; I've bought several of their albums and seen them in concert. You could take more than half of the drum tracks Alex recorded and swap them into another song with no difference. Just the same old bass drum on the one, three, three-and; and the snare on the two, four. Hot for Teacher is a break from that, but he's just using a double bass pedal.

For pure energy, nobody matches Keith Moon, but he didn't have much in the way of versatility. Baker was an exceptional musician, and contributed significantly to song arrangements in Cream. If you have an ear for drumming and see a cover band doing either Sunshine of Your Love or Crossroads, 9 times out of 10, the drummer isn't playing it like Ginger at all, but is substituting a more conventional rock beat.

 

 

AVH was DEFINITELY a straightforward drummer for the meat of pretty much all of their songs, but he shows plenty of glimpses of freakin' scary skills throughout his career.  Drum rolls and odd time signature **** that makes ya go WOAH!  I also admire his consistent and extreme power when playing those 2s and 4s  .  Dude is a powerhouse.  I always thought his stupidly-big drum kit took away from the focus of his skills.  Kind of feel the same way about Neil Peart.  He's so great, I think he'd look even greater with something more simple.  Keep the electric xylophone though, Neil.

 

Hot for Teacher's drum part cannot be summarized as "he's just using a double bass pedal".  He is, but to break away from that beat at all and stay on time takes serious talent.  That song is ****ing beyond difficult to drum.  Especially with that power. 

 

6 hours ago, Springfield said:

Listened to 4 at the gym today.  Prefer 1 and 2 over 3 and 4.

 

As of right now, my order is 1, 2, 4, 3 best to worst.

 

That would be my order as well.  Interested to see where you put HotH.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

17 hours ago, codeorama said:

Since Bohnam, there are clearly other drummers that are "better" in terms of skill. Neil Peart and Danny Carey come to mind. The stuff they have done is mind blowing.  But Bohnam did what he did in a different era and is great in its own way. IMO, a lot of what makes someone great is the originality and just the fact that they created it etc... I'm sure there's an 11 year old kid somewhere that can play every Zeppelin song perfectly. But he didn't create it.

 

Ah...my three favorite drummers.  Peart, Bonzo, Carey.

 

To your point of kids being able to play Bonzo's songs:  Yes, and they can play Rush and Tool songs as well.  There are young women on youtube knocking out Tool and Rush drum tracks.

 

You hit the nail on the head.  The musicians created it.  They aren't memorizing every little detail and repeating it, they are coming up with it.  They made those songs sound like beautiful masterpieces.  Mirroring their movements is a great way to learn, but to be on that level you have to be cutting-edge on your own.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Stop sleeping on HoTH @d0ublestr0ker0ll it's a sick album.  I've been listening to it non stop for the past three or four days and can't stop listening to it.  They went from straight ahead blues and hard rock on I and II to some experimental stuff on III (folk with Gallows Pole, country with Tangerine...and why are you sleeping on Tangerine?  Feels like a warm summer evening).  Back to more straight ahead hard rock on IV with a little folk (Battle of Evermore and Going to California) and then they went DEEP on HoTH.  IIRC, it's their first album with 100% original material as all of their previous albums had blues songs they lifted or traditional songs they made their own.  D'yer Mak'er, are you kidding me?  How'd they pull off a reggae song so effortlessly?  On the same album as No Quarter, which I think is their first time they dabbled with a synth and absolutely killed it?  It starts off with a kick in the face with the Song Remains The Same and then throttles down to the Rain Song which has an awesome slow build.  It's the second album, IMO where they get really experimental, delve into different types of music, push themselves to expand boundaries and pull it all off flawlessly.

 

I said III is my favorite but after listening to HoTH for the past few days I'm not sure anymore.    

[codeorama]

4 hours ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said:

 

Ah...my three favorite drummers.  Peart, Bonzo, Carey.

 

To your point of kids being able to play Bonzo's songs:  Yes, and they can play Rush and Tool songs as well.  There are young women on youtube knocking out Tool and Rush drum tracks.

 

You hit the nail on the head.  The musicians created it.  They aren't memorizing every little detail and repeating it, they are coming up with it.  They made those songs sound like beautiful masterpieces.  Mirroring their movements is a great way to learn, but to be on that level you have to be cutting-edge on your own.

 

Well said.  I can imitate many rock guitarists. It's not that hard. But actually creating something original and amazing is something completely different. (btw, my 3 favorite drummers as well)

[Busch1724]

11 hours ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said:

 

 

 

AVH was DEFINITELY a straightforward drummer for the meat of pretty much all of their songs, but he shows plenty of glimpses of freakin' scary skills throughout his career.  Drum rolls and odd time signature **** that makes ya go WOAH!  I also admire his consistent and extreme power when playing those 2s and 4s  .  Dude is a powerhouse.  I always thought his stupidly-big drum kit took away from the focus of his skills.  Kind of feel the same way about Neil Peart.  He's so great, I think he'd look even greater with something more simple.  Keep the electric xylophone though, Neil.

 

 

To my knowledge he has never used a double bass pedal. He loved Bohnam and Baker, idolized them. He has those skills. However, he did play a lot of 4/4 and 2/4 stuff with odd time signature changes here and there. He could swing, which most drummers can't if they are simple power groove drummers. Those that use a double bass pedal can't swing! Listen to the deep cuts of VH like Light Up The Sky, Girl Gone Bad, etc., and see some other stuff he does. He doesn't go crazy on most songs because Eddie is over the top. Mikey and Alex laid down a solid groove to back up the boy wonder. Alex has the talent in spades and shows it off on occasion. 

[Springfield]

15 hours ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said:

 

That would be my order as well.  Interested to see where you put HotH.

 

Just finished HotH.  It's an exemplary rock album.  Dancing Days is one of my all time favorites.  That said, I prefer a bluesy Led Zeppelin.

 

1, 2, HotH, 4, 3 is my running tally as of now.

 

HotH is a close third though and it's possible that I interchange that and 2 on a day to day basis.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

On 1/24/2017 at 7:01 PM, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

You can say that, but I'd argue Hendrix. 

I'm a Peter Green man myself.

 

 

That guy has never gotten his due imo.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

20 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Stop sleeping on HoTH @d0ublestr0ker0ll it's a sick album.  I've been listening to it non stop for the past three or four days and can't stop listening to it.  They went from straight ahead blues and hard rock on I and II to some experimental stuff on III (folk with Gallows Pole, country with Tangerine...and why are you sleeping on Tangerine?  Feels like a warm summer evening).  Back to more straight ahead hard rock on IV with a little folk (Battle of Evermore and Going to California) and then they went DEEP on HoTH.  IIRC, it's their first album with 100% original material as all of their previous albums had blues songs they lifted or traditional songs they made their own.  D'yer Mak'er, are you kidding me?  How'd they pull off a reggae song so effortlessly?  On the same album as No Quarter, which I think is their first time they dabbled with a synth and absolutely killed it?  It starts off with a kick in the face with the Song Remains The Same and then throttles down to the Rain Song which has an awesome slow build.  It's the second album, IMO where they get really experimental, delve into different types of music, push themselves to expand boundaries and pull it all off flawlessly.

 

I said III is my favorite but after listening to HoTH for the past few days I'm not sure anymore.    

 

Listen here, Spacemeng 2000.

 

This is like choosing who to bang between 8 10/10 chicks.  Okay?  Like, okay, I'd bang the 5th one last.

 

WHAT MAN!?!?!  WHAT?!?!?  DOOD I'D LIKE TOTALLY BANG HER 4th.

 

The album is beastmode, okay?  They all are.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

13 hours ago, Busch1724 said:

 

To my knowledge he has never used a double bass pedal. He loved Bohnam and Baker, idolized them. He has those skills. However, he did play a lot of 4/4 and 2/4 stuff with odd time signature changes here and there. He could swing, which most drummers can't if they are simple power groove drummers. Those that use a double bass pedal can't swing! Listen to the deep cuts of VH like Light Up The Sky, Girl Gone Bad, etc., and see some other stuff he does. He doesn't go crazy on most songs because Eddie is over the top. Mikey and Alex laid down a solid groove to back up the boy wonder. Alex has the talent in spades and shows it off on occasion. 

 

He absolutely uses a double bass pedal for the duration of Hot For Teacher.  He uses it for some drum breaks in other songs.  He hasn't got the right foot of Bonham, nor the left foot.  Bonzo's left foot usage on the hi hat is completely overlooked.  Guy could rev that hi hat stomp like NO OTHER, and introduced accents with the hi hat that were pure money.

 

[CRobi21]

9 hours ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

I'm a Peter Green man myself.

 

 

That guy has never gotten his due imo.

 

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

9 hours ago, Springfield said:

 

Just finished HotH.  It's an exemplary rock album.  Dancing Days is one of my all time favorites.  That said, I prefer a bluesy Led Zeppelin.

 

1, 2, HotH, 4, 3 is my running tally as of now.

 

HotH is a close third though and it's possible that I interchange that and 2 on a day to day basis.

 

No way HotH ever surpasses 2 in my book.  I love those songs, okay?  You all are bashing me for assuming that I'm like DOWN on those songs.  Dancin' Days?  Song makes me wanna cry.  I love it.  I hate YOU!.  You SITH LORDS.

 

At that point for me it'd be:  1, 2, 4, HotH, 3, and Physical would be about to take the first spot for good.

[Busch1724]

7 hours ago, d0ublestr0ker0ll said:

 

He absolutely uses a double bass pedal for the duration of Hot For Teacher. 

 

He certainly uses a double bass drum setup with individual pedals for each bass drum, but he's never used a pedal. I guess it essentially get the same effect since each requires both feet. 

[Riggo-toni]

15 hours ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

I'm a Peter Green man myself.

That guy has never gotten his due imo.

Green was the most authentic Chicago blues style player of all the Brits, and had a great tone. Perhaps it is a bit ironic then that many of Fleetwood Mac's best tunes were those that ventured outside of standard blues material (Oh Well, Black Magic Woman, Man of the World).

For me, the greatest Les Paul player ever was Green's most devoted disciple, Gary Moore. It's too bad most of Moore's recorded material is crap, and that he wasted so many years trying to find success by selling out to spandex era metallic dreck.

When I was making guitar pickups, my most popular humbucker set was called The Supernatural, in honor of the Peter Green/Gary Moore Les Paul sound. I didn't deliberately make them out of phase like Green inadvertently did, but I used a 4 conducter wire so that a guitar could be wired that way if desired.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

9 hours ago, Busch1724 said:

 

He certainly uses a double bass drum setup with individual pedals for each bass drum, but he's never used a pedal. I guess it essentially get the same effect since each requires both feet. 

 

Okay, so instead of a double-pedal sold in one piece, with two mallets hitting one bass drum - he has two bass drums and two separate pedals.  That's such a technicality, lol.  There is literally no difference in playing a double bass drum or a double pedal.  You'd play that song the same way with either setup.  He's using two feet for the bass drumming.